What happens when a cultural icon known for spreading joy and glam realness opens up about their most personal financial struggles?
In this episode, I sit down with the one and only Jonathan Van Ness aka JVN, for a raw, vulnerable, and hilarious conversation about money trauma, impulse spending, and the financial wake-up call that changed everything. From their first money memory at Bath & Body Works to navigating money as a public figure living with HIV, JVN shares how they went from financial avoidance to agency—with a little help from our past conversations. We dive deep into how queer joy is not just resistance, but a vital tool for survival, why financial literacy is crucial for marginalized communities, and what it really takes to heal your relationship with money. Plus, you’ll hear Jonathan’s tips for luxury bag resale (you’ll want to take notes), the emotional weight of growing up without financial guidance, and how they’ve transformed their entire financial life, mindset, and self-worth. Let’s get into it!
Key takeaways:
Impulse spending was a lifelong pattern
Jonathan shares how impulsive habits, rooted in emotional and mental health challenges, followed them from their early days of $40K/year income to Queer Eye fame. What changed everything? Learning how to budget, track spending, and understand the real cost of their lifestyle—financially and emotionally..
Queer joy is a radical act, and a financial one
For Jonathan, queer joy is not just about self-expression—it’s about resisting erasure in a hostile world. Money plays a role in that joy, from investing in mental health through Solidcore to creating a safe home with their husband and pets. Financial empowerment becomes a tool for resilience.
The wake-up call wasn’t overnight—it took months
After Tori’s first appearance on Jonathan’s podcast, they embarked on a months-long journey to get clear about their financial picture. That included switching management teams, learning about P&Ls, realizing the real costs of property ownership, and beginning to save again—slowly, intentionally.
Luxury spending isn’t shameful but it needs to be intentional
From reselling impulsive purchases to sharing insider tips on scoring investment-worthy bags at a discount, JVN reveals how they reconciled a love for fashion with new money values. It’s not about deprivation—it’s about alignment and sustainability.
From HIV support systems to healthcare advocacy
Jonathan opens up about how HIV social safety nets helped save their life in their twenties, and why navigating medical systems as a low-income person taught them just how broken—and vital—financial policy is. Their lived experience fuels a fierce belief in financial justice for all.
You don’t have to be perfect
The transformation wasn’t about becoming a financial saint. It was about progress over perfection. As Jonathan puts it, they’re “85% better.” Still learning, still occasionally impulse-buying, but now making intentional choices grounded in self-awareness.
Notable quotes
“Queer joy is so important because we are in a time where we are actively being erased.”
“I just have this problem where I like to make the money, light the money on fire, throw it out the window.”
“I was like eight decisions away from being like episode one of Schitt’s Creek, but not tax evasion, just impulse spending. So literally, you really did help me. You change my life. So you are that bitch, you will always be that bitch.”
Episode-at-a-glance
≫ 13:23 First Money Memories and Impulse Spending
≫ 17:02 Financial Growth and Challenges
≫ 22:55 Luxury Bags and Resale Market Insights
≫ 35:29 Pre-Queer Eye Financial Struggles
≫ 40:56 Living with HIV: A Manageable Condition
≫ 41:32 The Importance of Preventative Care
≫ 42:13 Economic Impact of Family Planning
≫ 42:58 Financial Literacy and Policy Impact
≫ 44:20 Life Insurance and Financial Advice
≫ 46:06 Understanding Retirement Accounts
≫ 50:13 Navigating Financial Management
≫ 53:42 Challenges of Running a Business
≫ 01:05:34 Balancing Activism and Personal Life
JVN’s Links:
JVNs new book: Let Them Stare
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Squarespace
Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase.
Indeed
Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com/FFPOD.
Rocket Money
Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FFPOD.
Quince
For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to Quince.com/FFPOD for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Netsuite
Download the CFO’s Guide to AI and Machine Learning at NetSuite.com/FFPOD.
Saily
Get an exclusive 15% discount on Saily eSIM data plans! Go to Saily.com/FFPOD download the Saily app and use code ‘FFPOD’ at checkout.
Masterclass
Get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com/FFPOD.
RESOURCES:
Looking for accountability, live coaching, and deeper financial education? Join the $100K Club
Register for our free investing workshop: https://herfirst100k.com/secrets
Feeling Overwhelmed? Start here!
Our HYSA Partner Recommendation (terms apply)
Behind the Scenes and Extended Clips on Youtube
Leave Financial Feminist a Voicemail
Financial Feminist on Instagram
Take our FREE Money Personality Quiz
Meet JVN
Jonathan Van Ness is an Emmy-winning television personality, 3x New York Times best-selling author, podcaster, comedian, celebrity hairstylist, and founder of JVN Hair. He stars on Netflix’s Emmy Award winning reboot series “Queer Eye,” where he shines as the hair guru and self-care advocate; and he hosts the popular podcast, “Getting Better with Jonathan Van Ness.” Jonathan also starred on the Emmy nominated web series “Gay of Thrones,” a witty social commentary series recapping HBO’s “Game of Thrones.”
Launched in 2013, the series ran for 8 seasons and garnered three Emmy nominations for ‘Outstanding Short Form Variety Series.’ Fresh off of three successful worldwide comedy tours, Jonathan Van Ness: Road to Beijing, Imaginary Living Room Olympian and Fun & Slutty, which sold out theaters in 40 cities in the US, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, Jonathan is bringing their new show, Hot & Healed, to cities around the US and abroad.
Transcript:
Tori Dunlap:
If you’re someone who’s been ignoring your money and expecting your financial problems to just solve themselves, this episode is for you. We are talking today to the iconic Jonathan Van Ness.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Whether I made like 40,000 a year or what I’ve made in these last few years, the impulsivity and the resistance to budgeting that was there then and it was there now.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re talking impulse shopping, luxury bags, financial trauma, budgeting, breakdowns, and queer joy in one of the most deeply personal and transparent conversations he’s ever given.
Jonathan Van Ness:
So the whole system is really fucked up because the last thing someone should be worrying about is acquiring their pills.
Tori Dunlap:
Jonathan and I have a refreshingly honest conversation about personal growth, about healing from money, trauma and joy as a form of resistance.
Jonathan Van Ness:
This is why I’m so passionate about politics and I talk about it so much and living with HIV is like in my 20s the HIV social safety net saved my life.
Tori Dunlap:
From their earliest money memories and hence spending all of the money at Bath & Body Works is involved to navigating financial overwhelm at the height of fame and success. JVN opens up about how they went from financial avoidance to agency.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I was like eight decisions away from being like episode one of Schitt’s Creek, but not tax evasion, just impulse spending so you changed my life.
Tori Dunlap:
They share how my advice, which is fucking insane changed their entire framework around money and their entire relationship with their personal finances and why it’s never too late to get started. Along the way, we’re talking luxury bag reselling. We’re talking about surviving the chaos of social media and why financial empowerment is crucial for marginalized communities. I’m so grateful to Jonathan for their transparency in this conversation and when a guest, especially a prominent guest who we all know and love and watch on our televisions comes on to be transparent about money it makes all of us a little more willing to be transparent too. Let’s get into it. But first a word from our sponsors.
Jonathan, thanks for being on the show. Tell me why queer joy is so important and how that might relate to money.
Jonathan Van Ness:
What a good question. I think queer joy is so important because we are in a time where we are actively being erased. I think it’s so easy to check out and be just not involved and just want to withdraw from the world around us. And what I learned from this really curious queen called Gretchen Rubin is that when we’re more withdrawn from joy than we’re more likely to be withdrawn from making the world better. So we really need to get our joy on so we can try to get out of this mess.
Tori Dunlap:
What does that joy look like in practice for you? I always think about marginalized groups. Making money is one of the ways that I get a lot of joy. Has that shown up in the same way for you?
Jonathan Van Ness:
It has and it hasn’t because sometimes I feel like … And you literally taught me this. I’ve been hosting my podcast for almost 10 years and you have literally been one of my most impactful, meaningful, learn the most impact of my life the most. I literally think about you on a weekly basis because of everything you taught me. And in fact, I literally just did this other financial podcast where I was like, “Well, to quote Tori Dunlap, to quote Tori Dunlap …” No seriously. I was like, “Well, most of what I know about financial literacy is from Tori Dunlap.” So that’s that. But anyway, for me the joy looks like I love my pet so much and just spending … I’m a homebody and this might be surprising for anyone that knows me, but I’m a total introverted extrovert.
Tori Dunlap:
Me too.
Jonathan Van Ness:
So I really need to recharge with my animals, with my husband at home. I love our garden. I’m obsessed with going outside. I’m newly obsessed with Solidcore, which is an investment, but it’s for my mental health, so I feel like yes, queen. And so that’s what my joy is looking like at the moment.
Tori Dunlap:
We always joke that I cry at some point during an episode and I think you might have the record of the soonest tears. That was so nice. I really needed it, especially right now. I was actually thinking about this this morning. I think when you’re a member of a marginalized group, especially someone who is a public person who has an internet presence, I can’t even imagine what your messages and DMs look like. But the Incel men have found my account and it’s just rough out here. And so one, I really needed to hear that, so thank you. But also one of the questions I weirdly wanted to ask you is do you feel like it’s worse when Republicans or conservatives are in power versus Biden or Democrats have the presidency? Do you feel like the hate is worse or better?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Hard to say. It’s crazy because I can’t believe that I was on Queer Eye and took off in the first Trump administration and then we have this reprieve and now we’re back and it’s disorienting or something. But I will tell you this, I saw you post about that and my heart broke for you. I will tell you something that Alok told me, my dear friend Alok. I know that you are so communicative with your base and that’s part of what’s gotten you here, and I get that, but you may have gotten to a point where you need to cut those fucking DMs off. Or make some setting where they have to follow you or something, make it a little harder. You are at a point where you have reached so many people that allowing that much access, especially if you care and you have a heart, which you do on both of those fronts. And that was really hard for me because I was like, what if something important or what if there’s someone who really needs help or whatever, but you do have to protect yourself. When the impact on your mental health is bigger than what you can offer for your wellbeing, then you have to limit a little bit of access. So just for whatever that’s worth, you may just need to take a … Because they’re fucking crazy.
Tori Dunlap:
They are.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I do think as far as who is in office, I think to varying degrees. It’s all been a cluster. But I do think lately since Meta re-sorted out their abuse guidelines, their verbal abuse, online abuse and harassment guidelines, it seems worse. And I also think that they always had an uneven way of enforcing those policies and now they just got rid of some of those policies so you just can misgender people and be transphobic and abusive. But even when that wasn’t the policy, they still let that slide all the time. But then it’s like if you speak out against a certain political thing that you might align with or not align with, they will ban you faster then you can say, wait a minute. So that’s interest. I do think that social media has become more toxic under the Trump administration for sure.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. We were just talking about joy and I think that one of the things I consider frequently is how do you find joy amidst absolute chaos, and especially when voices that feel oppressive or that are oppressive feel so loud?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes. I also forgot one really important thing of how I get joy, which is my friends. Hanging out with my friends is really important. FaceTimeing my friends. Fortnite. For my long-distance friends, we all Fortnite together. I’m obsessed with a little gaming but only Fortnite because the other one’s stressing me out. I went through a Grand Theft Auto phase, but it was making me too angry, so we switched over to Fortnite. It’s much brighter. So that is I think a really important way. And another thing that I learned … I think it’s so important to give credit where it’s due when you learn something from someone. But that Mel Robbins honey, I saw something on her social where she was like, “I’m not reading the news first thing anymore.” And then I realized … Because I’m such a news girl, I love to read the news, I love reading period. But I always would just wake up, do my coffee, maybe make a little coffee dance, and then read the news.
And then, I don’t know if anybody knows about this, but I used to do this little coffee dance all the time and ’18, ’19 and late ’20 in the morning. So I just woke up happy. I was like, “I got money. People know me. My life’s changed. This is so fucking fun.” Then I moved to Texas. Then I was like, “Dang, there’s so much queer suffering here. There’s so much going on. This pandemic’s got me down. There is so much suffering.” And I just became so aware of the suffering and I read the news every morning. Then I stopped coffee dancing because I was like, I don’t feel like coffee dancing. I’m like sad all the fucking time. Then when Mel Robbins said that, I stopped reading the news first thing. I still read it, but I wait until noon and then I read it for an hour and then I’ll still interact with it on social media if I see … Because I follow certain people and reporters on social, so I’ll interact with it there. But not rolling out of bed, making my coffee and then reading the news for 20 minutes is making me way more joyful.
And it doesn’t mean I’m being ignorant and it doesn’t mean I’m disengaging because I am engaged. I’m just not doing it when I open my eyes. And I am so much more likely to want to do a little dance. I go to Pilates and I’m in a good mood. Then I listen to NPR and then I’m like those fuckers. And then I listen to some Ariana right before I go into class and it’s better. But that’s a whole 45 minutes later that I’m used to engage with it, and that really has been helpful. Because I am still engaged, but it’s not the very first thing I consume. And you guys, I cannot even tell you, I really do feel better from that switch.
Tori Dunlap:
It was the same for me. I joke that I am seven months sober on news podcasts because at the peak of it I was listening to-
Jonathan Van Ness:
That almost made me spit out my coffee.
Tori Dunlap:
I was like 10, 15 hours a week. Every single day. And then I was listening to all of the election coverage and then he got elected again and I was like, “I can’t do this for the next four years. I can’t have this much information coming at me.” And so I have severely cut down on that kind of media. And again, doesn’t mean I’m opting out. I’m actually opting out of that craziness. I heard it on Glennon Doyle and Abbey Wambach’s podcast as the MAGA riptide. I’m out of that so I can actually opt in on the things that really do need my energy because it was the same thing for me. I was like, oh God, I’m basically addicted to this thing that I think in my head was keeping me informed, but in actuality was just fully stressing me out.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah. And it’s like, really I feel like we got to pay attention to voting, what our elected officials are voting on, but I can do that. It’s not like the votes happen at five in the morning every day. There’s usually some buildup. So it’s like I know who to follow. I know what news I need to watch. It’s really legislative. I’m not trying to engage in this clickbait stuff that just makes me feel crazy. I do think that that is so important. Sidebar, Glennon Doyle. I just started reading Untamed two weeks ago. I’m almost done.
Tori Dunlap:
Jonathan.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Fuck me hard you guys. Untamed honey. 2020. I was just too busy falling in love with my husband and baking banana bread or something. I don’t know. What the fuck. I don’t know how it took me five years. But goddam. Glennon Doyle is that girl fucking girl honey. I love her.
Tori Dunlap:
I literally read that book. It changed my entire life. I don’t think I would be doing this work if I hadn’t read that book. And Jonathan, it was a big deal for me. It has not come out yet. Maybe it’ll be out by the time this episode comes out. I was invited on her and Abby’s show. We recorded a couple of months ago. I got through the whole thing without crying and I was so proud of myself. But that was such a big deal for me because … Abby’s work as well. If you have not read Wolf Pack. Both of those women with Amanda who’s Glennon’s sister have been doing such incredible work for so long.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Your energetic podcast, clearing out, swapping out all the news for these other ones I just think has been really, really good. It’s really good. Although I will say, you know who I can’t quit who I love so much is anything Rachel Maddow does. I can’t. MSNBC detox talks myself from her. I’m such a fucking hardcore Rachel Maddow addict.
Tori Dunlap:
I get it.
Jonathan Van Ness:
My Rachel Maddow addiction has affected my life in the following ways. I just love her so much. And not to veer, but I will not veer too hard. Have you listened to Bag Man? It’s Bag Man and Ultra. But Ultra is especially interesting because it’s giving now in some ways. And I also feel like her ability to teach media literacy and help you understand what you should be researching and looking for, I think is really, really above average for other journalists at the moment.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and that’s one of those things that I think goes out the window as soon as people start feeling the panic and the stress is understanding what’s true, what’s not, what is been tweaked, let’s say, or edited or biased in order to further a certain opinion. And I think that that is one of the most powerful tools we’re going to need for the next … Well forever, but especially the next four years.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
So one of my favorite questions to ask people generally, but I think is uniquely fun if you’re not a financial expert, is your first money memory. Do you remember the first time you remember thinking about money?
Jonathan Van Ness:
You were the first person that ever asked me about this, and I think I said the same story on mine, but I can’t remember. But as you ask me now, the first thing that comes to my mind is our family used to go on an annual vacation and we went to Mall of America when I was seven or something, and I remember my grandma gave all of us $60 and I was like, “Oh my God, watch out. I’m literally loaded in a way that you hoes aren’t even motherfucking ready for. When I hit these stores, you better get out of my face.” So I separated from my family against orders. You were supposed to stay together. Well, I had to go to Bath & Body Works because I had $60 and so nothing ever changes. And so I hauled ass to Bath & Body Works and while the intercom was like … My nickname growing up was Jack, so the intercom was like Jack Van Ness, please report to the security. Your family … And I was like, ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. I’m buying my peel-off Shea Butter mask. I’m buying my Frisia, I’m buying my Juniper Breeze.
Tori Dunlap:
Moonlit Path.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I had to. And I spent $59.82. I spent all of the money and I was so happy with myself and my mom was … When I found them, she was like, “Oh my God. Who would let a seven-year-old spend $60 without their parents there? Who did this lady think that this cash came from?” And then my mom was just so mad. She was like, “You can’t do the laser tag with anyone now because you spent all your money.” I was like, “I don’t like laser tag.” Because we were supposed to take from our money to do the things because it was like to teach us about money, but I was like, “I got what I wanted. I’m happy to go sit outside and watch these little kids play laser tag. I have priorities.”
I just feel like some of my earliest memories were with blinders on focus of this impulsivity and it’s like once I got it in my mind that I wanted to try something or do something, it’s just impulsive. And that has just literally bitten me in the ass whether I made $3 a year or lots of dollars a year. I just have this problem where I like to make the money, light the money on fire, throw it out the window. And it really wasn’t until you where I was like, “Wait. I’m having all this pressure from just too much overhead and doing too much and spending too much and I’m not saving the way that I should and that’s stressing me the fuck out because now I understand things better and I understand the way that my impulsivity is folded into my mental health.” Which I literally didn’t know until I fucking met you. Which was crazy.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s the thing that people don’t understand that you just articulated so well is a lot of people will come to me and they’ll be like, “Money stresses me out, so I don’t look at it.” And I’m like, “That’s stressing you out more though.” Ignoring your money you think is the way of just, I’m going to keep spending money. And the example I like to give is just-
Jonathan Van Ness:
And I’ll make it. I’ll just replace it somehow. I’ll just make more.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m driving a car without knowing how much gas is in it. And it’s like that’s fun until you break down on the side of the road at 2:00 A.M. without cell service. I think I wish more people understood that when you put off thinking about your money … To your point, maybe it’s just I’ll make more or I’ll figure it out. You’re still going through life actually more stressed because you’re ignoring the problem than it would be to just sit down and actually engage with it.
When we come back, we’re talking more with Jonathan about how they changed their financial story from head in the sand ostrich effect to becoming more involved in their finances. But we also take a detour talking about how to get luxury items like designer bags for a super discounted cost. And honestly, I learned a lot about the designer bag and resale market and we also get into the value-based spending idea from my book. Stay tuned.
Jonathan Van Ness:
So it literally has taken me since I had you on the pod, which I’m pretty sure was October of 2023, it’s taken me almost this … Literally you guys in this time I have gotten a new business managing team, I learned how to budget, I understand what a P&L is. Also, the first thing I did after I had you on, I understood what I spent a month, which when I figured that out, I was like, someone just fucking-
Tori Dunlap:
Someone take my credit cards from me.
Jonathan Van Ness:
No. Just take me out. And also that was the other thing I learned about because I bought more than one property and when I was buying properties, I was like, “Oh, well, it’s like the down payment and it’s like the mortgage.” That’s what I was thinking in my head. It wasn’t until I did the budgeting where I was like, “No girl. It’s like the maintenance. It’s when someone breaks. It’s when something breaks.” And that’s like all money that you can’t invest, you can’t save. So then my business manager was like, “Well, this is how much money it costs you to run that property for a year.” And then I was like, oh my God. And in this economy with real estate honey now I just had to … I learned about it after I interviewed you. It took me four months to figure all that out. Four months to start savings again, four months to stop the bleeding, to get it together, figure it out. Now I got these fucking properties and I’m like, “I don’t want to do this anymore. This is really stressful.”
But it’s not cute to sell a house right now. So now I’ve just had to sit with my impulsivity and just sit with these decisions and wait for the right time and I can’t do no fun impulse buying, can’t buy no cute bags. Although I did relapse at Hermès a few weeks ago. It’s fine everyone. It was a tiny relapse. I haven’t really relapsed since 2024 on an Hermès moment. And I know that you don’t really act like that and you don’t really believe in that, but I’m stupid and I can’t help it. And that French craftsmanship.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s beautiful. I get it. Well, congratulations.
Jonathan Van Ness:
You’ll see me doing that.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Congratulations for all of it. And I think that one thing that anybody listening can take away is whether it’s discovering my work or discovering somebody else or starting to take money seriously, you then think, okay, I’m going to fix it all and that’s going to take two days. And I’m like, it’s actually not. It’s going to take a long time to understand your financial trauma, to understand your triggers, to get your financial house in order, to start figuring out how to make proactive decisions. And so what I love of what you just said is it’s like it takes months if not years, it takes a long time and that’s not something to beat yourself up over. That’s just the natural part of this.
I was telling you I became obsessed with Solidcore. Or did I tell you that? I can’t stop talking about it?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Jonathan Van Ness:
My intention for the last two weeks in class, when the teacher’s like, “Okay. What’s your intention?” And then you said it quietly. In my head I’m like, when that voice is like, “Buy it. Go on Rebag. Get something resale. That’s better because it’s cheaper than retail.” The voice tells me all sorts of different ways to get around my rules to impulse buy something even when it’s out of my budget. And so in my Solidcore I’m like, when that voice gets intense, think of it like this in your Solidcore and you’re not going to do it. We’re going to bump up right against that intensity, but we’re not going to do it because of course it feels intense .but we’re not going to do it. Yeah. I still do mess up sometimes, but I would say I’m a good 85% better.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well and better doesn’t mean perfect. Better does not mean you’ve never spent money because that’s a diet and we know diets don’t work and it’s the same thing with spending.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
So it’s like you have to have a little flexibility with yourself.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Very triggered by the bags. I think it’s Sex and the City and being a millennial or something. I don’t know. It’s very trigger city for me, a bag.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, you found the thing that you love, and I think we probably talked about this when I came on your show, but it’s like value categories. You find the three things in your life that you love spending money on. And for me-
Jonathan Van Ness:
Okay. Because yours is travel, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. You’re right. Yeah. Good memory. Yeah. So I don’t get-
Jonathan Van Ness:
What are your three?
Tori Dunlap:
I tried the designer thing, Jonathan. I tried it because I saw all of these people being like … Once I started making a little bit of money, I was like, oh, is this what you’re supposed to spend your money on when you have some money? And then I would go and I would see this Gucci bag that I thought was beautiful, but it’d be $6,000. And I was like, “Nope. That’s not for me.” It doesn’t tickle anything. But you know what does? A luxury hotel. Oh, I dream about it for weeks. I look at all the amenities multiple times. I know what the amenities are, but I go to the website and I look at all of them and I try to do it on credit card points too, so at least half the stay is covered.
Jonathan Van Ness:
It’s getting you so much endorphins. You’re just getting fucking endorphin hit after endorphin hit.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, because I do so much-
Jonathan Van Ness:
Like we’re saving the money. You’re getting the pretty room.
Tori Dunlap:
Literally. And I do so much taking care of people all of the time. I’m an Enneagram two. I take care of our team, I take care of my partner and it’s so nice where I’m just like, someone’s going to come clean after me, clean up after me twice a day. I don’t have to worry about anything. I don’t have to cook. And so that’s the thing that I look forward to. But it’s like to each their own.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Okay because I just have to tell you, I follow you very closely on the social, okay. You have one of my favorite social accounts.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s very nice. I didn’t know this. This is so nice.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I’m serious. And I saw your thing about you’re like, these are the things that as a millionaire that may surprise you. And it was like, you’re never going to see me spending the money on the designer bag. I tried a couple of times that it’s not for me. I follow you. I’m obsessed. So then I almost DM’d you about it then I was like, “Don’t be psychotic.” But since you brought it up and let’s talk … So can we just take a three-minute bag detour into bag land? Because I’ve made so many mistakes. I’ve learned the bags that don’t last. I’ve learned the bags that do. I’ve learned how to score them for cheaper. I’ve learned about resale. I’ve learned that how you can resale well if you want to. And I’ve learned the ones that do hold their value and the ones that do not hold their value. Part of this is because I also secretly ghost follow Bethany Frankel, but I don’t want her to know, so don’t anybody tell her because I’m scared that she’s going to review my hair products online and she’s going to be like, “I don’t like this shit.” Even though I do think that she would like it if she did try it. I don’t know why I’m just like, I revere hair, but I’m also scared of her.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, she’s terrifying.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah. It’s like this multi-pronged ball for me with Bethany Frankel, but I do really look up to her. And her bag university, it taught me a lot about my steez as I’ve been understanding my categories. Because remember how when you were on and I was like, “Oh my god. Of all my impulse buys, there’s only 25% of them that I love, that I would use again. That I love.” I was like, let me get rid of that other 75 because it just brings up guilt and shame that I let my impulsivity win and I don’t need them collecting dust. And so the ones that made me sad to get rid of, I didn’t get rid of, but the ones that I was like, I literally don’t give a shit if I ever wear that again and it’s been on a shelf for literally years, those ones I sold.
Tori Dunlap:
So Jonathan, give me the …
Jonathan Van Ness:
So this is what I learned you guys.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. Please tell us because I’m even curious. All of it feels to me because it’s not something that I love spending my money on a slight waste of money. Now I’m not shaming you. I’m not shaming anybody listening. If you save, if that’s the thing that’s going to bring you a ton of joy, great. I’m just hard on my shit. I wear the same bag for five years.
Jonathan Van Ness:
These are the bags that you can be hard on. These are the bags that you can be hard on and it will not waste your money. The Row. The Row bags hold up so well. They have a small cross body that’s incredible. It’s not for computers and stuff, but just a small cross body. You can ride it so hard. It’s like two grand. I’ve had one for six years. And also if you fuck your stuff up from The Row, you can send it back to them and they will repair your bags. It’s like lifetime bag repair. So they’re really good. I’m obsessed with The Row.
Now I know that this is a thing and I know that it’s annoying. I know that it’s annoying. But I did finally get an SA, a sales associate at Hermès who I can get a bag from Hermès now. And I did not have to spend that much money. You really don’t have to go buy all these other things. You really just have to find an SA that you like that you connect with that likes you. And you might have to go to multiple stores to find that person. I just bought fragrance. I brought fragrance until I found one and I was like, oh … And I didn’t go in for the bag. I was like, I just really want fragrance. If they ask you what bags you would like, that’s how you found your girl. If they don’t ask you, you don’t ask them and you grab a new one. But now I have one-
Tori Dunlap:
Jonathan, I have to pause you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Tell me.
Tori Dunlap:
I have to pause you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Tell me.
Tori Dunlap:
For the civilian, what does this mean? Because a lot of people don’t know you can’t just walk into Hermès and be like, that one. What is happening when you say, I have a person now?
Jonathan Van Ness:
You have to get a sales associate at Hermès if you want to score a Birkin or Kelly. There are some bags that you can be like, I want that one. But there are certain bags that you have to be offered. But there’s this whole wives tale that you got to spend a certain amount and that was not my experience. You just have to find a sales associate that likes you. I got my bag off of I just bought a fragrance and that’s how I got my first bag after that.
The point of that is resale Hermèses are really expensive. Because I didn’t want to wait. And then I was like, oh my god, they’re so expensive. If you can get it from the store it’s still expensive, but it’s nothing resale. I don’t resale my bags because I’m obsessed with them. But if someone did do that, you could actually really make money on that. But don’t ever tell them that. But I’m not a resale girly for Hermès because now that I finally got there, I’m like, I just want my once a year bag and I love it. But they do resale really well. So if you ever did need to get rid of your bags, Hermès is the only bag that actually is an investment where you could buy something and then sell it for what you bought it for or more and actually use it. So I don’t do that, but you could do that if you wanted to. And they actually really do hold their value. It’s crazy.
Chanel, I don’t know if they really care about reselling their bags the way that Hermès, because if Hermès finds out that you’re reselling a bag, they don’t like this. Chanel, I don’t think it’s really the same, but I did resell … My Chanel’s were some of the ones where I was like, oh. I resold a lot of those suckers. And in my experience with the Chanel’s, they keep half their value. So you buy it, you literally never use it again. You keep it in the box. So that’s really not a good investment. I always thought that those were good investment pieces. They’re not. The only one that actually is in my experience is Hermès, but they really hold up. You can really use them.
The Row I feel like holds up really, really good. Bottega holds up really, really good. And actually for the girl who does not want to spend a lot of money on a bag but wants a designer bag, this is what I would say because this is what I learned. Bottega does not hold their value, but you can beat the shit out of them. So if I was trying to save a little money but wanted something really gorgeous … And this is someone who’s resold a lot of their Bottegas because I just didn’t use a lot of them. There’s bags that cost eight grand retail that someone lightly uses. There’s not even a stain. It’s just used and there’s not a box, but it looks very new. You can get it for $1,700, $1,500. So you can get one that’s got a little bit of wear and tear for 800, but it will last you for 10,000 years. And it’s cool when it’s a little bit worn. So the resale market really is you can get bags that are a quarter, a third because most bags don’t hold their value. That six grand Gucci bag you could probably get for 800 from like Rebag.
Tori Dunlap:
I didn’t know any of this. Look at this. And The Row is, isn’t that Mary Kate Ashley’s brand?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes. Those fucking girls.
Tori Dunlap:
I know.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I wouldn’t just lay down on train tracks for them, which I would. I don’t know why they’re … Actually, this is The Row. Let me put you on The Row sale. Can I put you on The Row sale?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Jonathan Van Ness:
You guys type in therow.com and just look in there once a week. They never talk about it. It’s very low-key. It’s very secret. You have to go on there online and then you click on the men and women and then every once in a while it’ll just say, sale. This sweater that I’m wearing you guys, I literally got it for 70 fucking 5% off. I think no one liked it because it’s got these insanely long sleeves, but I love a crazy long sleeve and this V-neck. So you go on their sale, they really do have steep cuts, but they never advertise because they’re shic ass luxury ladies. They’re not advertising their sales. You guys got to sneak in there like a thief in the night on their online, look for the sale and their sale. You can just pillage it. I have gotten on their sales stuff … It would’ve cost like $12,000 at the store for 3000 for a bunch of stuff. Shoes. Sweaters. They have good ass sales and their stuff really is made so well, it holds up. It really does beat it up.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and let’s talk about that for a second because I think anybody who’s listening to this show knows that no matter what you want to spend your money on, as long as you can afford it and it’s a thoughtful purchase, I don’t fucking give a shit. I don’t care. You can buy your designer stuff, you can buy your four seasons hotel. I do not care. We do not shame people by saying, oh, it costs this much. You spend your money on the things that you love. However, what I think you’re talking about for somebody who might be going, oh, $3,000, that’s crazy. Can you maybe talk about spending money on things that hold up or last as opposed to the things that you might get at H&M? Because I think that that was something I learned in my 20s even. Now I’m still not shopping designer, but it was like, okay, I’m willing to pay $120 for a pair of jeans that fit me really well because I know I’m going to have them and wear them for a very long time. So can you talk to me more about that?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes. I also just would say that H&M, I have H&M pieces that I’ve had for 15 years, 10 years. I have some H&M stuff that I don’t know if it’s from some factory because some stuff holds up really good from there and then some, it’s like you wear it for a year or two and it’s not happening anymore. So I don’t know. You can get really great stuff from your H&M’s and from that level of retailer. Chef’s kiss. I would also say another retailer that’s really good that it’s giving The Row, but not those prices, but it’s more expensive than H&M is COS. I really like C-O-S, COS. And also I really like Quince. Quints and COS are two places where you can get really good-
Tori Dunlap:
Quine is a sponsor of the show. I’m obsessed with them.
Jonathan Van Ness:
We love Quince.
Tori Dunlap:
I would be obsessed with them even if they weren’t sponsoring the show. They’re so good.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Girl you know when I discovered them? After I met you. Because I was like, I can’t be going to The Row like this anymore, but I still want some nice cashmere sweaters. I still want some luxurious. And then after Kim K did all her Kim K stuff, I was like, well, I can’t be wearing skims dresses like that everywhere, so I still wear the old ones because those were expensive, but I don’t buy new ones. And they have really cute spaghetti strap … Just wear around the house dresses on Quince that I love.
Tori Dunlap:
Jonathan, I’ll also turn you on to Spanx. Spanx doesn’t just make shape wear.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I fuck with Spanx. I fuck with all their stuff. I love me some Spanx.
Tori Dunlap:
Sara Blakely followed us about three months ago and I literally cried because I love this woman so much. But I have probably five or six of their jumpsuits. They are the most comfortable things. Not an ad. But they are so comfortable. I literally warn them on transatlantic 12 hour flights and they still hold their shape, which I’ve never found before. If you’re wearing something all day, usually it gets a little stretchy, it stretches out. It did not stretch at all and I wear these things like a second skin all the time.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I love her. I think she’s so brilliant. Now I will tell you about the lasting thing for spending something. So yeah. So I just cannot emphasize enough, the resale market really is so good. People are reselling stuff that is so not used and barely used and it just does not hold its value. I’m talking like the Loewe dresses, Bottega dresses. If you have not messed with The RealReal get into it. I’m sorry, but if that is one of your top three categories but you’re just like that’s too expensive. Get into that resale. I’m getting so many cute pieces for fractions of the cost. That’s that.
Now I don’t know if you’ll believe me when I say this, and this might be one of those things where I thought I was doing good but maybe I wasn’t. But this is how I justify my expensive pieces from those more expensive pieces. So I take the price then I think to myself, I’m going to wear this for 10 events or eight events. I’m going to wear this many times this year or this many times. I plan it out. Because usually when I buy stuff like that, it is for work. It’s either for tour or for work. It’s not for me to wear out to brunch. But still it’s like a cost is a cost so I’m not trying to spend money just to spend it. So I think about price per wear. So if like I can have this thing for a couple of years and I can wear it for three stage shows, a press tour and another thing, then it’s not really 3000, it’s 400 or 300 a time. So you could apply that to whatever your price range is and then you just … And I wear my pieces. I don’t wear it once and then put it up. I don’t buy one thing and then put it in some fashion rotunda that I don’t ever break out again.
Because ever since I met you, literally I resold all the stuff that I don’t repeat that I consider it was impulsive or it was trendy or it was for one thing. I literally don’t do that anymore. I only buy stuff that I can rewear for a long time or that I am obsessed with. I also buy a bunch of resale stuff now that I didn’t use to. So I really have fundamentally changed my approach to how I dress myself for work. I do think about a price per wear thing and I also think about if there was something that I was rougher on … A couple of H&M things in a row that’s still a couple hundred and if you just ruin it or don’t really take care of it, you end up … It reminds me of cheap shampoo and conditioner versus better shampoo and conditioner. The better is more concentrated. It actually lasts longer and then you have to buy more of the less good stuff, which is a little harder on your hair. So it’s at the end of the year you may be paid pretty close to the same thing, but the quality of one was way better than the other, which I do feel like that’s not blowing smoke. I feel like that’s real. So that’s how I do it.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re talking about all this stuff of the lifestyle that both of us have now. But I think a lot about … For me, I’m 30. For me it was my early 20s of trying to navigate just spending money in these really micro moments on the things that I love. And can you take me back before Queer Eye because you had just turned 30 when you joined the cast. What was your money or spending like when you were a small business owner just trying to get by?
Sorry, I keep jumping right in here when we get to the really good questions but hey, the sponsors keep this show a hundred percent free for you. So when we come back we’re talking about Jonathan’s rise to fame through Queer Eye and everything they wish that they had done differently when they started making more money. This is such a great listen if you’re someone who has started making more money and wants to know what pitfalls to avoid, plus I get into a rapid fire breakdown of retirement accounts. We’ll be back.
Jonathan Van Ness:
It was obviously really different because I was making $70,000. I think when the first year I did hair in LA after I moved back to LA, it was like 40, 60, 80, I think then I booked Queer Eye and the year that I booked Queer Eye was the first year in the salon I got to right around 100K before taxes. And having to do all of the things because I was a small business owner. But one thing I’ve noticed about myself is is that whether I made 40,000 a year or what I’ve made in these last few years, the impulsivity and the resistance to budgeting, that was there then and it was there. Now it may have been a Row bag, but I remember so viscerally going to AllSaints and seeing this suede boot and it was $159 and I was like $159 for a fucking boot. Goddamn. They were trying to rob me blind, but that suede is so gorgeous. And I dreamt about it and I thought about it and I was like, “Am I really someone who could just buy $160 boots? Who do I think I am?” And then this client tipped me really good and then I was like, “I’m fucking buying the boots.”
I took myself to Third Street Promenade to that AllSaints and I bought those boots and I literally still have them in my closet. Those have not befallen the resale because they’re sentimental to me even though I don’t wear them anymore. And I remember the first apartment that I bought that was a one bedroom instead of a bachelorette. I remember asking all my clients and being like, “Do you think I can … Do you think …” And they were like, “Girl, yes. You can do it, girl. Get the fucking apartment.” So a lot of anxiety, a lot of not knowing it. And the reason that I had the anxiety is because I didn’t want a budget. I didn’t want to know how much I was spending. I didn’t want to look at some of the behaviors. So I just like ostriched it. And it was literally not until … Not to say it 18 million times until I met you that I stopped doing that. So whether I made a little bit or a lot of it, a lot of the same behaviors, same approach.
So yeah, it just was a smaller different scale. I would say that one really intense thing for me at least … And this is why I’m so passionate about politics and I talk about it so much and living with HIV. In my 20s the HIV social safety net saved my life. And so it was really important. At the time if you make over a certain amount you don’t qualify, which I really didn’t have to worry about because I wasn’t really even close to that amount. But I remember the first year, the year that I booked Queer Eye where I took myself off of it and I remember going to the office and being like, I’m going to make too much this year. I don’t need this assistance. And I was so proud of myself.
But without that … And also that was so stressful because it wasn’t just provided. You are qualifying for the Medi-Cal and them helping you with your medicine is incumbent upon you filing your taxes. At least when I was doing it was all about your birthday, so it always renewed on your birthday. So my birthday’s right before taxes are due and as an independent contractor I was always shitting my pants in February and March because I would do it by the month. But it just was so stressful. When you turn everything in, if it doesn’t go through or if it’s not on time and it’s like your medicine. When you achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load, you’re not contagious. But if you get cut off from your medicine, that’s not good. And so it’s really stressful and that wasn’t an easy thing to navigate.
It was the early days of the Affordable Care Act. So I was navigating the ACA, Medi-Cal, Medicaid, the subsidies. Learning that I had HIV living with that. It was my mid to late 20s. Well I found out when I was 25. And then I booked Queer Eye when I was 29. So there was four years of just a lot of nail-biting and worriedness around … And then once I did make a little more money, then I was like, oh my God, what if I do make too much and what if I get cut off, but then what if I break my wrist? Or what if something happens and then I don’t make as much money? And so the whole system is really fucked up because the last thing someone should be worrying about is acquiring their pills. For public safety once you know you have HIV, if you can get on your meds and stay on them, you literally … That’s where that whole saying undetectable equals untransmittable comes from. It’s like when you’re undetectable, you literally can’t pass the virus sexually.
For me to give someone HIV, like my liver would have to lacerate down the middle and fall in your liver because we were in a such a … It’d be like gruesome blood exchange. And we’re probably not living through that anyway. But it’s just incredible how far we’ve come and how not that big of a deal living with HIV needs to be because it really … I take a pill once a day, go to the doctor every three months. I feel great. I’m not contagious. But your life expectancy from diagnosis now is 50 to 75 years, which is incredible. My goal of living to be 107 is still attainable because found out when I was 25, so I’m still totally in this. But yeah. It becomes a really big fucking deal when you can’t get your medicine. It goes from being this treatable disease where it’s not really an issue for public safety because like I said, you’re not passing it around.
But when you cut off your medication … Actually there’s a Supreme Court case going on right now where this employer in Texas, it’s called Braidwood Management versus something. But they’re the employer and they don’t want to cover preventative care. I can already feel what you guys are thinking. You’re like, “Well, how does this affect me?” Guess what also is preventative care. Birth control. So these people are trying to say that because of their faith, they don’t feel that they should have to cover birth control or PrEP for their employees. And this is going to directly affect public health. And another thing that makes me so angry is when people would say, “Well, family planning and birth control isn’t economics. That’s not kitchen table issues.” When they would say that about Kamala. And it’s like, “What the fuck do you mean that’s not kitchen table issues? Do you know how expensive it is to raise a kid?” Not having reproductive autonomy and reproductive freedom … I learned that from Melinda Gates, not to name-drop. Melinda French Gates. Her work and her research took her all over the world to developing countries and they found that when women didn’t have access to family planning, that’s what causes the impact to opportunity.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s the most economic issue.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely. Yep.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I’m sure you guys already know that, but I learned about it and my little gay mind was just like …
Tori Dunlap:
No. But it’s what we talk about so much in my work where you and I can talk about budgeting and we can talk about finding bags for cheap and we can talk about all of this and it’s helpful. Talking about budgeting, talking about paying off debt, talking about investing, these are all important things. And there are some of the only things we unfortunately as individuals can control about our financial picture because there are so much that is policy driven or lack of policy driven that directly affects your money. And I think we grow up believing that if we’re bad with money or if we don’t have enough money that it’s somehow our fault. That we’re not good with it or it’s our identity of just … I don’t know math, so I’m not good with money. And it’s like, no. There’s definitely steps you can take, but it’s probably because the minimum wage federally has not been raised in a couple of decades. Probably because abortion access is continually at threat. It’s probably because medication is so fucking expensive. And it’s like these things have a lot more to do with whether you’re able to financially survive and thrive then do you know how to money.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I have a really intense pivot that my ADHD wants me to do, but if it doesn’t work, you can just be like, that doesn’t work. You’re insane. And then we can just go. But I have a question for you.
Tori Dunlap:
Talk to me.
Jonathan Van Ness:
For me. Okay. So ever since I met you, now all my girl … Because I talk about it so much. One of my girlfriends went through this thing where she found out that her mom had had a life insurance policy that she didn’t know about and then her mom passed away and then she came into almost a hundred grand. She literally hung up on the insurance company three times because she thought it was a joke and then the fourth time they were like, “Please don’t hang up. This is not a fucking joke. We’re trying to figure out how to get you this very life-changing money.” So her and then my other girlfriend got 10 grand and in both of their cases, their debt was way less than what they got, whether it was 10 or the hundred. So they were like, “Well, what should I do?” And I was really good with figure out your monthly budget first. That’s the first thing that you have to do. Then you’re going to pay off the credit cards, but you don’t want to do it all the way to the zero every month. You got to have a little bit to figure that out based what you want to put on there, figure out what your thing are. Is that not right?
Tori Dunlap:
You stopped me because I opened my mouth really wide. We actually want to pay off our credit cards completely. That is one of the myths.
Jonathan Van Ness:
All the way every month.
Tori Dunlap:
All the way every month. It’s one of the myths that gets perpetuated and it’s like, oh, we’ll increase your credit score that way. It’s like, no, it just puts you in debt. It’s not a big deal. They can pay it off really quick, especially if they have that amount of money.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I told her to keep 150. I told her to keep 150 on there a month. Okay. So I have to call her back and tell her that. [inaudible 00:45:27].
Tori Dunlap:
You can send her my way too.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Oh, god. Jesus Christ. Okay. So I’ll tell her that. I actually already did. I told her that she should been … I already told her that 19 million times and she might have done that by now.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ll send her my book too.
Jonathan Van Ness:
She’s really cute. But then this is the part that I get stuck on for independent contractors.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Talk to me.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I do the credit card thing and then it’s like do the three to six months of your emergency fund saved up and then you got to do your retirement stuff. And then for the independent contractors, I can’t explain the difference … And when I read about it online, why is a Roth or not a Roth better and who is that better for again and what’s the difference again? I just cannot fucking figure it out and I want to understand it.
Tori Dunlap:
No. I love this question. Okay. So let’s just talk about Roth versus traditional before we add independent contractor in. So whether it’s a traditional IRA, a traditional 401K, a Roth IRA a Roth 401K, it’s basically the differences in how they’re taxed. So if you have a traditional 401K, that is a 401K offered through your employer. So if you are a nine to five or a W2 and you get a 401K you cannot open a separate 401K. That’s either a benefit that’s offered to you or not. The traditional Roth or 401K means that you are paying the tax when you retire. So the money’s getting taken out at that point. A Roth 401K or Roth IRA means that you are paying the tax now and the IRA and the 401K … Again, the 401K is offered through your employer. The IRA stands for individual retirement accounts. So pretty much anybody can open one of those whether you’re self-employed-
Jonathan Van Ness:
Even if you have a 401K too, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. You can open both. Yep.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I think that’s the next thing I should do. Sidebar. I need to get an IRA.
Tori Dunlap:
I need you in stock market school really, which is my program that teaches you how to invest. I’ll talk to you later about it. So the IRAs are, again, individual retirement accounts. Roth means you pay the tax now. Now everybody’s got to make their own decision. You got to choose the one that’s right for you. For me, I like Roth options for the average person for two reasons. One, it’s like giving 65-year-old me a little gift. It’s like, “Hey, I paid the tax. 30-year-old me paid the tax. Go take your hot Pilates instructor named Luca out for lunch where you drink Sauvignon Blanc in Italy.” That’s my real life retirement plan. The second thing is I have no idea what the fuck taxes are going to be. Now they could be better. It’ll probably be hunger games. So I would rather just pay the tax now than wait until later.
But it gets interesting when you start making more and more money because then need to go to an accountant and be like, which one, based on the amount of money I making/the ability … What money do I have to invest and where should it go? So that’s where it starts getting slightly more complicated. But for the average person listening, I don’t care what account you contribute to, I just care that you’re contributing. I think a lot of people get hung up on making the perfect decision and I’m like, honestly, I just need you to pick one and run with it. When you’re an independent contractor you could open up your own 401K, your business could open up a 401K. It could also open what’s called a SEP IRA. It’s a self-employed IRA. But you cannot contribute to both of those in a calendar year. It’s either 401K or either SEP IRA. But then either of those plus a Roth IRA for example, you can contribute. So you could do a 401K and a Roth IRA could do a SEP IRA and a Roth IRA.
Jonathan Van Ness:
IRA in the same year?
Tori Dunlap:
Mm-hmm. In the same year. But again, talk to your accountant.
Jonathan Van Ness:
You just can’t do a SEP and a 401K in the same year.
Tori Dunlap:
Correct. Correct.
Jonathan Van Ness:
But you could do a Roth and a … Okay. Okay. Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. It’s just the 401K and the SEP IRA have really high maximums that you can contribute, and so they’re trying not to give you the ability to contribute-
Jonathan Van Ness:
Give yourself too much of a gift when you’re 65.
Tori Dunlap:
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Jonathan Van Ness:
When’s your university? I want to sign up. But also if you did sign up for that university, does that mean that you don’t need a investment manager because you just do your own?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. Yes. It was actually a question I had for you and you offered me the perfect segue. But Stock Market School … To not shamelessly plug too hard because I’ve plugged it on the show before. We literally built not only the ability to teach people how to invest, but the actual technology. It’s an app that we built. And as of literally a couple of days ago, over a hundred million dollars has been invested by the women, women plus in that community. And 80% of the people who join have never invested before. So we’re not just offering education, we’re actually bridging wealth gaps and it’s my fucking favorite thing.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Oh my God, do you guys hear that on the audio? It’s the hot bitch alarm. It’s going off so hard right now again. Girl, that’s so cool.
Tori Dunlap:
My favorite part about my work is like, okay, let’s actually get people investing. But one of the things I wanted to talk to you about … And again, to whatever level of vulnerability you want, I think that when you booked Queer Eye, when you started making more money, this happens to a lot of people, regardless of whether you were on a Netflix show and you’re super famous or not, is if you start making some money, you then think, I don’t know how to do this and I need to hand it to somebody else. I don’t know how to manage this money and I’m making more money than I’ve maybe ever made in my life, and I need to hand this to somebody who knows how to money. Well, sometimes it works out. I think unfortunately, sometimes it doesn’t. Can you talk to me about your experience of, wow, I’m making really decent money and I don’t know what I’m doing, so maybe I need to give it to somebody?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah. I had a business manager this whole time because I really didn’t know … I had an accountant before Queer Eye who I would go to every year for the health insurance stuff and filing my taxes. But then once I booked Queer Eye, I was doing stand-up comedy in 30 states and sometimes internationally. So there was 30 state income tax returns. There was employment stuff. There was HR stuff.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m big fans of accountants. I think accountants are well worth their money, I think.
Jonathan Van Ness:
No. Totally. But I’m just saying that there was things that my old accountant couldn’t do once I started doing stand-up in all these different states and different countries. She was licensed in California. She didn’t know how to do some of those other things. So then I went with a business manager because I needed someone who could learn or that could do all of the things and help me with employment. Just anything. So that’s the idea of a business manager is that they do not only your taxes, they should probably help you with your budget. They usually help you with finding an investment person. But they charge commission, so they charge 5% of everything you make. So that’s usually the setup of how that works. So I had the same one for years and years and years who I really, really loved and he didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just that our response to a budget shortfall or me being like, wow, I feel really overextended, and oh my God, I’m just working so much. Our answer is just make more money. I needed to find something else to book, find something else to do and so I just left.
And so that was working, but I was just literally so burnt out .so burnt out, sad, overwhelmed. And then once we had our episode of my pod I was like, oh my God, I just don’t want to feel like this. It just brought a lot into focus for me. I was like, I’ve never done these exercises. I didn’t even know anything about this stuff. So then that’s when I was like, I think maybe I need to make a shift, but I didn’t do anything reactive. I was like, let me just start to figure this stuff out. Then I started to shop around. Then I found a business manager who took me for less of a commission but did more stuff and also just brought me into visibility on more things. I never did a profit and loss. I never did a budget. And so I do that really in lockstep with this team that I ended up going to. And they’ve been incredible.
I’ve saved some money because like I said, they charge less. Could I do it on my own? Could me and my insular team do it on our own? Maybe we could. I’m sure we could. I feel even still between learning how to write … I’ve written three books. I’m learning how to write scripted. I’m running a haircare company that’s in seven countries expanding. Trying to turn that bus around because our former parent company filed for bankruptcy in 2023 so that was a really stressful process and needed to find a new parent company, which we did successfully, and I really liked them and we’ve been able to maintain control of our DNA. Oh my God, I have 10% ownership of my company now, which I never had before. So I actually have equity in it now, which I never had before, which is really cool.
Tori Dunlap:
Wait, can I pause you? So it has your name, image, and likeness all over it. You didn’t own any of it before.
Jonathan Van Ness:
0% for the first three years. Because the company that went bankrupt, they basically were like, “We’re going to invest $40 million in this company. You’re not investing anything in it so you don’t get to own any of it, but obviously-“
Tori Dunlap:
You’re investing your name and your fucking credibility.
Jonathan Van Ness:
It wasn’t like that. So obviously their business model wasn’t great because they went bankrupt. And that was really crazy stressful and the whole thing. Because my team and our company worked so hard to build ourselves a legacy. Not saying that other companies that were affected by this didn’t, but a lot of them don’t exist anymore, and a lot of them didn’t find the bandwidth to land on their feet. And transitioning from a parent company that goes bankrupt to finding a new parent company. And I’m really strict about formulas. I’m really strict about packaging, and thank God we found a parent company that was willing to come in, help resuscitate us, didn’t make us change our packaging, didn’t make us change our formulas. They’ve been so supportive. They’ve invested in us. They gave me 10% ownership, which is incredible, and also a vesting schedule to get more ownership if we meet certain goals. So I’m just so proud of what we were able to do there.
Anyway, the long and short of it is this new business team, they literally, part of their thing was you have to have … Oh, well, the moral of that other story was like, I just don’t want to spend the time and the bandwidth on learning how to do those things when I’m focusing on other things. But this new team really has been incredible. They require that we have a meeting once a week. I’m not allowed to skip it, so I have to once a week. We look at income, we look at cash in, we look at cash out, we look at projections, we look at the whole year. I have a one, three, five year plan. We have a savings plan for what I need to save every month. We had to do a little bit of a reorg on certain things, which made me lose sleep and made me really sad because I didn’t want to really have to do that, but I did have to have some tough conversations. Because at the bottom line at the end of the day, I was spending more than I was making and I was not going to reach my goals. So we had to do some reorgs.
I’m selling a house, but it hasn’t happened yet because patience. So yeah, so that’s what it took. It has taken a lot. I’m still sitting with the consequences of some of those impulsive decisions before I knew how to do some of this stuff. I feel bad, my old business manager really was so sweet, so nice, but that’s how a lot of business managers are. And he wasn’t bad. He just wasn’t really hands-on. And I will say that these people are women and they’re their young 30s and they’re much more just like … They don’t just really let me coast. They don’t do a yes person thing. They’re like, “No, no, no. We got to talk about this because we aren’t mind readers.” They just don’t let me get away with shit which I love. I have just learned so much. So maybe someday I could, but right now I really like the support of this team and they helped me make sure that no shit falls through the cracks. So I really feel like they’re earning their keep because I have so much more security and peace of mind than I used to.
Tori Dunlap:
When we come back, we’re finishing our conversation with Jonathan, including talking about how she feels on the other side of financial education and how she navigates being an activist and an advocate for queer joy.
You don’t need me to tell you this, but I’m so fucking proud of you and I hope you’re really proud of yourself. It’s just so cool. I’m in luteal. I’m about to start my period. I’m like teary on a good day, but trying to hold it together today. No, it’s just really great. And it’s like-
Jonathan Van Ness:
No girl, the universe really is crazy because I interviewed you when that was going on. When the bankruptcy was … No, I’m sorry. Because I’m fucking over talking you on your own podcast. But I was so excited to come on because the universe literally introduced me to you when that bankruptcy was happening. It was in the thick of it. I was realizing my hair care company was potentially crumbling. I didn’t know if we were going to find a future or find a home. It went from fastest growing hair care company in the country. I’m not even just saying that. We were the fastest growing hair company in the country, and then the rug just got pulled out from under us to the point where I didn’t even know … We were going to become one of those horror stories. And to be clear, we still could. We’re not all the way out of the woods, but we have turned such a corner.
We have come such a far away. And I am just so proud of our community, of the people that have supported us through this and our mega super fans. Because at the end of the day, I do feel like what did save JVN Hair is the quality of our product and then our community. Because if our product wasn’t good and it wasn’t as effective as it is, it wouldn’t have lasted this long anyway. But we also couldn’t have done it without support and understanding because our inventory got fucked up. Our deliveries got messed up because the parent company went bankrupt, so we couldn’t pay vendors. It was a mess. And here’s a moral story of that for any entrepreneur listening, you cannot cherry-pick what you want to learn about when you start a business. When I started JVN Hair, I was like, “Oh, I only care about formulas and marketing and formulas and performance.” But I was like-
Tori Dunlap:
And I’ll hire other people to talk about money and numbers. You have to have ownership.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah. No. You can’t do that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. Yep.
Jonathan Van Ness:
And not even if you own all of it. It’s just like you have to understand. Because there are experiences that you’ve had and skin that you have in the game that other people by nature just won’t. And if you don’t understand what decisions they’re making … There are just really preventable things that … I should have known what EBITDA was and I didn’t. But now I do. I didn’t know about operations and I didn’t care, but now I do. Especially with tariffs and stuff now. Jesus Christ. The president of the company and I are just together. She always jokes that JVN Hair is the business degree that I never asked for, but I have one now. It’s like an unofficial BA. But I am really proud of myself too because so much of me wanted to just sell everything and go buy a small cabin on a lake and grow tomatoes with my husband and animals and never come out of a cave. But I’m really proud that 2024 wasn’t able to do that to me because it almost did, but it didn’t.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, for anybody listening, I think one of the most impactful things about what we’re discussing is I think it’s very easy to watch people you admire, people on TV, people who you think are like, “Oh, they make so much more money than me. They have all of their shit figured out.” And I appreciate your vulnerability, and I hope people understand who are listening just because you make a bunch of money or just because you have a TV show doesn’t mean that your financial trauma goes away. It does not mean that you suddenly know everything about how to run all of this. And I have been increasingly in rooms with people who I’m like, oh, actually there’s a lot. Either I can teach you or there’s a lot that you can learn about money because I want you to have something to show for it. I want you to have something to show for this moment that’s turned into a movement. I want you to have something to show for when you get a raise at work. I want you to not just waste that opportunity because the financial education piece wasn’t there. So I just really appreciate your vulnerability, and I think it’s going to be comforting to people weirdly to know that like, oh, okay just because you’re “rich and famous” does not mean any of these problems go away.
Jonathan Van Ness:
They actually get bigger and worse and more severe. Higher to fall.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well I’ve always said-
Jonathan Van Ness:
If you don’t get it together.
Tori Dunlap:
If you can manage like $300, you can manage 30,000, 300, three million. It’s not really that much difference. Now you start getting to have maybe nicer things. You start getting to hopefully save and invest more money. There are certain strategies to to again, protect your money. But the basics are the same. Understanding budgeting, understanding your impulsivity, understanding your financial trauma, whether again, you’re making $3 or $30 million it’s actually very similar.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes. A part of me does just still fantasize about how irresponsible and impulsive I used to be, but I just did it without $30 million. But sometimes I just get this fantasy of if I had $30 million and just an Hermès didn’t work how it works, and you could just … I found this lady on TikTok, you guys. I don’t know what she does, what her man does, what her family does, but this Hermès collection on this lady is like, take you out at the knees, weak at the knees. I would-
Tori Dunlap:
Is this the woman who’s like, “I’m a trust fund baby with a hundred thousand dollars a week salary.”? Is that this person?
Jonathan Van Ness:
No. This queen is like, she’s like in her 60s. She’s British. She’s so cute. I think she has a house in London and New York and Tokyo because she’s like, “This is my London collection. This is my non-traveling New York collection. This is my non-traveling Tokyo collection.” She’s got exotics. She’s got cuts of Hermès bags I’ve never even heard of. She taught me about this one called the Lindy, the 21 by 21, the Plume, all these other bags. These undercover non-Burkin and Kelly Hermès bags. I’m losing minutes and minutes of my life watching her bag tours. But I am guessing conservatively that over the years, I would guess that her bag collection costs her … I’m going to guess half a million, 500,000. And I would guess it, if she were to resale it tomorrow, I bet you it would be worth 2.5. I’m not even kidding you.
Tori Dunlap:
Especially if she has a following too.
Jonathan Van Ness:
They are rare. Her bags are rare and vintage and cool as fuck. But she doesn’t even resell them because she’s too classy too. And she didn’t make stupid mistakes like buying bags that she didn’t like. Whereas I bought bags I didn’t care about. Thank God I didn’t do that with … I really do my Hermès bags. I joke that I’ll just live in them if I go broke, bankrupt and end up like houseless. I’ll literally live in them. I’ll sew them together and find a secluded place in the woods where I don’t get robbed for my Birkins. I don’t know where that came from. I freaked out.
Tori Dunlap:
No. We were talking about the vulnerability of you being open about your money, and I just really appreciate it. And it’s also, again, I love that. And again, you don’t need my permission. But you’re allowed to spend money on the things that you love as long as it’s an informed choice. Because the last thing I want for you-
Jonathan Van Ness:
Totally. And I’m more informed now.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. But no. The last thing I want for you is to spend money on something that you really, really are excited about but then with a side of guilt. That’s why I say it has to be an informed choice because I joke nothing tastes worse than a pina colada on a beach with a side of guilt because that’s what’s happening when you just spend money without knowing if you can afford it. Is that the very things that you were actually looking forward to or the very things that you were prioritizing then have this massive asterisk on them. Yeah. It’s like great. Spend the money on the things you love.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I did it with this house because now it’s just this behemoth … I was like, oh, that was a mistake. But I still love her. It’s just too much pressure.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and you learn.
Jonathan Van Ness:
It’s fine you guys. We’re going to land on our feet. We did.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. You learn and you figure it out. Okay. My last question for you, when we’re talking about being a member of a minority group, whether that’s a woman, a queer person, a person of color, a disabled person, I think you immediately become or are almost forced to become an activist for that group of people, even if you didn’t ask for that. And you’ve become and are such a huge advocate for the LGBTQ+ community. How has that evolved for you when you also are trying to prioritize your own safety, your own joy, your own happiness with also knowing, okay, there’s something concrete that I can do to make a change here? Does that question make sense?
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah. I think it’s reconciling my responsibility with my personal life. And I think at least the way I approach my platform and my work-life balance is I’m just doing the best I can and I always am doing the best I can. I think if anything, there have been some years in my career where I could have done more. I feel like I didn’t do enough. There’s been other times where I feel like I did too much. But what the commonality was is that I’ve always just been trying to do the best that I can. And I read this really interesting book about yoga and vegetarianism after I read that book, Skinny Bitch when I was 22, and it turned me into a militant vegan for four years until I walked by a seafood restaurant that had steamed clams and then I jumped off the vegan wagon and never got back on accidentally, but I still really value their work and the lessons that I learned from them.
But this woman who wrote this book called Yoga and Vegetarian, she was saying people are doing the best they can with what they know. And that always stuck with me. And I think another thing that really helped me is this girl who I’ve known since I was 19. I worked at my first salon with her out of hair school and now she works with us on JVN Hair and I just love her. She told me this quote. I don’t know if her husband invented it, but it’s certainly the first time I’ve ever heard it. But he said, “Don’t attribute to malice what could be attributed to ignorance or fear.” And so that made me way less vitriolic against Republicans because it isn’t malice. I do think it’s misinformation and fear and propaganda that they’ve been exposed to. And so that has helped me feel a little bit more hopeful and less angry and more willing to engage. So that’s where I am.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. You have been, first of all, so complimentary to me. Thank you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Girl I love you. Keep going.
Tori Dunlap:
I did not pay you to say any of this.
Jonathan Van Ness:
You guys, we didn’t pre pro any of this. I really love you so much. I’m so grateful for your work.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I’m cheering you on so hard, and I just love you and just keep it up.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Just maybe turn off your DMs. Do not let these fucking incel ass cunts dim your shine.
Tori Dunlap:
I literally wrote it down.
Jonathan Van Ness:
But you know what’s interesting, Tori? Just from … You can keep this or not, or it’s whatever you want. But one thing I feel like I really have learned from the last seven years of being such a public person is … And I’ve heard other celebrities or famous public figures, politicians just people talk about this. That it’s like the more public you get, the less of yourself you share because the criticism is so intense. Just the unsolicited critiques from people are so intense. But I realized what that’s done to me is that I curated and I have censored myself for the negative voices. Instead of all the positive voices that were supporting me, cheering me on, wanting me to be more of me, I’ve gotten rid of more of my authentic self to avoid potential criticism from people that were never going to like me anyway. They were never going to give me kudos anyway. They were going to shit on me for whatever reason, no matter what. And what that has cost me is growth.
Because I see other people that started at a similar time as me that have continued to go higher, whereas I have been around the same place and I’m still picking up the pieces of betraying my sense of self for negative feedback from people that never gave a fuck in the first place. Which how you show up for your causes or your platform or whatever, that’s all going to be impacted by how you feel about yourself from this unsolicited feedback. So not engaging in that unsolicited feedback or engaging more in the positive than the people who are fucking assholes … Not that you should be above criticism because obviously … But it’s like you’re not idiot. And neither am I, and we are self-aware and when we up, we know that we did. And we can explore that without a fucking internet pile-on by people who do not give a shit about you and never did.
Tori Dunlap:
I think for me, with the incel … and we’re talking about a video that I posted last week where it was just the cadence. Because it happens all of the time for me, and I know it happens all the time for you. And I truly am okay. I’m not just saying that. Does it hurt sometimes? Absolutely. But it hurts more when it’s from people who I think I’m largely aligned with. That’s the stuff that hurts more when it’s from women.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yes yes.
Tori Dunlap:
The men I don’t care about.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I’ve always said that to you.
Tori Dunlap:
It was more just the … It was every five seconds. So it felt like I was watching waves come in. Normally it’s just waves. That was a tsunami. That felt like all-
Jonathan Van Ness:
It was a pile-on.
Tori Dunlap:
It was.
Jonathan Van Ness:
That is a pile-on.
Tori Dunlap:
And it continues to be. So for me, what I’ve realized … So I turned 30 last July and I got a bunch of my friends together and I went to dinner and it was so nice, and I was like, this is my gift to you is this really, really nice six-course dinner? And it was so lovely. And one of my friends who had flown out … Again, so kind. Literally looked at me and she’s like, “Hey, so what is your goal for your 30s? What is your biggest thing?” And I was like, “My goal for my 30s is being okay being misunderstood.” That’s my goal for my 30s is being okay being misunderstood because I know that I’m a good person. I know that I’m a good daughter and a good partner and a good friend and a good leader. And am I going to fuck up? Absolutely because I’m human. But I also don’t have to prove myself to you. I don’t have to prove myself to someone who I have not built a mutual sense of trust and vulnerability with.
I think especially a lot of the men, you were just saying, I was never going to win them over. And I’m like, I’m never going to win them over. And I’m also not going to win over somebody who “used to follow me”, but she’s changed or whatever feedback they give me in that way. I’m like, “You don’t really know me. I don’t really know you. I am okay being misunderstood.” And that is my goal. I think I’ve gotten there way more than I was even a couple of years ago, but throughout the rest of this decade, that is my goal.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Three things really fast, just that resonated so hard. I interviewed this incredible queer historian on the pod last summer when I was really going through it and he said this thing to me that really fucking changed my life, and it’s what you just said. But he said to me, find the courage to be disliked. And I just started bawling. Bawling. I was like, oh my God, that’s really … The people pleaser in me just does not cope with that. And I also, when you were saying it’s like the women that it hurts worse. The criticism from the community or the left for me is way more painful than the right. So that also really resonates. But it’s actually that.
It was precisely the point that I was trying to get through to you. Is do not dim your shine or quiet yourself down or not share about what you were. Don’t stop being who you are to curtail yourselves from those ones specifically. Fuck the incels. But it’s like I really found myself censoring myself, especially around the election because of criticism from the left about how I had phrased something or how I had spoken to a political issue on TikTok. So I just shut the fuck up and I was so quiet in 2024 compared to 2022, 2020. Every midterm, every presidential election. And I really allowed myself from the criticism to just diminish and become so small. And it really impacted my growth, my business. And I think some of me needed that. I needed that experience universally or whatever to learn the lessons I was supposed to learn.
But I don’t want you to fall into that trap because I have learned so much from you and so many other people have too. It’s our survival instinct that makes us notice the negative comments because that’s the snake and the Serengeti that’s going to kill you. The fuzzy positive feedback is the rabbit, and that rabbit’s not going to kill you. So our brains haven’t evolved to be threatened by positive feedback. So that’s why negative feedback gets more attention. But just do not fall into that because you are literally changing lives. You’ve changed my life. You’re changing other people’s lives. So keep being you. I also need to take that advice myself, but please, girl.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. That’s how I feel about you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
You turn my fucking Titanic around girl. You put in the goddamn … I was like eight decisions away from being like episode one of Schitt’s Creek, but not tax evasion, just impulse spending. So literally, you really did help me. You change my life. So you are that bitch, you will always be that bitch. And will you do everything right? No. But don’t let those negative ass fucking Nanc’s who are having a bad day that try to shit to on you on Instagram … They’re probably like anti-vaccine trad wives. Fuck them.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Thank you. And that’s how I feel about your work. Every time I listen to your show, I am so inspired by the conversations you have. I am so looking forward to getting to know you better too in real life. I just admire you and your work deeply and your courage. Because y’all, it is not easy to keep showing up when people are mad at you. It’s not easy to keep showing up when you feel or are literally being threatened. It is not an easy thing. And one thing that somebody who’s not on the internet or is not a public person will never understand is the feeling in your nervous system between somebody standing outside your door with a pitchfork and a torch and somebody screaming at you on the internet. Your body does not know the difference. It is the same feeling. And so I just admire you so deeply. I admire your vulnerability. I admire you showing up and standing up for what you believe. Plug away my friend. Tell us about where we can find more about you.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I just love you so much. Thank you so much for having me on. If you like this, we do Getting Better every Wednesday. That’s my pod. You can watch it on YouTube or listen to it wherever you get your podcast. We do our Monday edit, which is on Mondays obvs. It’s like the behind the scenes. It’s me and our senior producer Chris, and that’s giving a little news coverage, a little BTS, a little listener questions. It’s a little snack. It’s a little fun snack to look forward to because everything’s so sad. So it’s just like queer funness on Mondays. So that’s the biggest thing. I’m also on tour at the moment. This is my fourth stand-up tour. It’s like I’m working on the new hour material, which has been really fun. It’s about dealing with the fallout from the election and how we’re going to get through the next four years, but it’s about safe spaces, queer joy, dealing with men hilariously. Queer Eye, I think we’re coming back for season 10, which I’ll be filming again soon which I’m really excited for.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Wow.
Jonathan Van Ness:
Yeah, season 10. It’s crazy. I’ve been doing this for a little bit. But I love it so much. That’s what’s on my agenda.
Tori Dunlap:
I love it. Thank you. Thank you for being here.
Jonathan Van Ness:
I love you. Thanks for having me.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much to Jonathan for joining us and for their incredible transparency. I hope this inspires you to talk more about money. We need people talking about money. You need to be talking about money with your friends, with your partner, with your coworkers. And this conversation was one, such a testament to how important our work is. I was so humbled to hear about how much my work and Financial Feminists has impacted Jonathan’s journey, but also a commitment or a recommitment for us to take our financial education seriously and to take talking about money seriously too. You can check out Jonathan’s podcast Getting Better. There’s an episode with me on there as well. And you can watch Queer Eye on Netflix. You know where to go. You know where to find the most heartwarming show that’s ever been created. And thank you again to Jonathan for joining us. If you love the show, you can subscribe, you can share it with your friends. And if you’re watching us on YouTube, welcome. I hope you stick around. Thanks for being here. We appreciate you supporting feminist media. Thank you for being here, and we’ll talk to you soon. Okay, bye.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist a Her First 100K podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you’re confused about your personal finances and you’re wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com/quiz for a free personalized money plan.
Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Sciortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Sasha Bonar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Meghan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
