Hey Financial Feminists! I’m so excited to bring you today’s episode — I had the incredible honor of sitting down with Senator Elizabeth Warren! For those who don’t know, she’s a fearless advocate for middle-class families and a driving force behind the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. In this episode, we dive deep into pressing topics like affordable housing, universal childcare, and the systemic policies that shape our financial futures. We explore how the intersection of personal finance and government policy impacts each of us, and what steps we can take to make a difference.
Key takeaways:
The Intersection of Personal Finance and Policy:
- Deep Connection Between Individual Finances and Government Policies: Senator Warren discusses how personal finance isn’t just about individual choices but is deeply influenced by the systemic rules and regulations set by the government.
- Navigating Loaded Rules: She emphasizes that if the rules are loaded against you, it’s a much harder uphill struggle, highlighting the importance of policy in financial well-being.
- Both Tori. and Senator Warren agree that personal finance is about 20% individual actions and 80% systemic issues, underscoring the significant impact of policies on personal financial health.
Affordable Housing Crisis:
- Private Equity’s Role in Housing: The conversation dives into how private equity firms and Wall Street investors are buying up housing stock, driving up rents and home prices, and making it harder for individuals to purchase homes.
- Increasing Housing Supply: Senator Warren advocates for building approximately 3 million new housing units across America, including single-family homes, condos, and apartments, to address the supply issue.
- Pushing Back Against Corporate Practices: They discuss the need to implement policies that prevent corporations from monopolizing the housing market, ensuring that homes are for people, not just profit centers for companies.
Childcare as Essential Infrastructure:
- Reframing Childcare in Economic Terms: Senator Warren proposes treating childcare as critical infrastructure, similar to roads and bridges, because it’s essential for parents to participate fully in the workforce.
- Universal Childcare Plan: She outlines a plan to cap childcare expenses at 7% of a family’s income, regardless of the number of children, with the federal government subsidizing the rest.
- Economic Benefits: By investing in affordable childcare, the plan aims to boost the economy through increased workforce participation and by providing better wages for childcare workers.
Economic Policies for the Middle Class:
- Contrasting Economic Visions: The discussion highlights two different economic approaches: one that gives tax breaks to the wealthy and deregulates industries, and another that invests in working families through healthcare, childcare, and housing.
- Fair Taxation: Senator Warren stresses the importance of adjusting tax policies so that ultra-rich individuals pay their fair share, which can fund programs that support the broader population.
- Wealth Building Opportunities: By making these targeted investments, the goal is to strengthen the middle class and create more opportunities for individuals to build wealth and achieve financial security.
The Power of Voting and Civic Engagement:
- Impact of Elections on Policy Change: Senator Warren emphasizes that real change happens when people vote and support candidates who advocate for policies that benefit working families.
- Call to Action: She urges listeners to not only vote but also volunteer, donate, and engage in political processes, especially in swing states where the impact can be significant.
- Continued Advocacy Post-Election: Regardless of election outcomes, she highlights the need for ongoing civic engagement to hold elected officials accountable and push for the implementation of beneficial policies.
Notable Quotes
“Houses should be for people, not for corporations.”
“Even when we elect good people, they still need the push from all of us here in America to keep them moving in the right direction.”
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB)
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Meet Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Elizabeth Warren, a fearless consumer advocate who has made her life’s work the fight for middle class families, was elected to the United States Senate on November 6, 2012, by the people of Massachusetts. Elizabeth is recognized as one of the nation’s top experts on bankruptcy and the financial pressures facing middle class families, and the Boston Globe has called her “the plainspoken voice of people getting crushed by so many predatory lenders and under regulated banks.”
She is widely credited for the original thinking, political courage, and relentless persistence that led to the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. President Obama asked her to set up the new agency to hold Wall Street banks and other financial institutions accountable, and to protect consumers from financial tricks and traps often hidden in mortgages, credit cards and other financial products.
In the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, Warren served as Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP). Her independent and tireless efforts to protect taxpayers, to hold Wall Street accountable, and to ensure tough oversight of both the Bush and Obama Administrations won praise from both sides of the aisle. The Boston Globe named Elizabeth Warren Bostonian of the Year and TIME Magazine called her a “New Sheriff of Wall Street” for her oversight efforts.
During her campaign for the Senate, Elizabeth promised to fight for middle class families and to make sure that everyone has a fair shot to get ahead. She called for policies that would level the regulatory playing field for small businesses and ensure that everyone – even large and powerful corporations – pays a fair share in taxes and is held accountable for breaking the law. Endorsing Elizabeth’s candidacy, the New Bedford Standard-Times said, “Elizabeth Warren has it right on all the things that matter most to us in SouthCoast and across Massachusetts,” with “principles that without a doubt, promote the well-being of the middle class.” The Boston Globe called Elizabeth “a fierce advocate for the lot of working families, creating educational opportunities, and expanding medical research.” The Springfield Republican said, “We need a voice for working families in Washington again. Elizabeth Warren will give us that voice.”
Senator Warren was a law professor for more than 30 years, including nearly 20 years as the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard Law School. The graduating class at Harvard twice recognized her with the Sacks-Freund Award for excellence in teaching. She taught courses on commercial law, contracts, and bankruptcy and wrote more than a hundred articles and ten books, including three national best-sellers, A Fighting Chance, The Two-Income Trap, and All Your Worth. National Law Journal named her one of the Most Influential Lawyers of the Decade, TIME Magazine has named her one of the 100 most influential people in the world four times, and she has been honored by the Massachusetts Women’s Bar Association with the Lelia J. Robinson Award.
Elizabeth learned first-hand about the economic pressures facing working families, growing up in a family she says was “on the ragged edge of the middle class.” She got married at 19, and after graduating from college, started teaching in elementary school. Her first baby, a daughter Amelia, was born when Elizabeth was 22. When Amelia was two, Elizabeth started law school. Shortly after she graduated, her son Alex was born. Elizabeth hung out a shingle and practiced law out of her living room, but she soon returned to teaching.
Elizabeth is a graduate of the University of Houston and Rutgers School of Law. Elizabeth and her husband Bruce Mann have been married for 38 years and live in Cambridge, Massachusetts with their golden retriever, Bailey. They have three grandchildren.
Transcript:
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
We are a band of people who truly believe that we could put government on the side of people, not billionaires, not giant corporations, not private equity guys with their computers to figure out how to suck up every house in a neighborhood, that we could actually make government work better for people, we can deliver on that, not huge headline stuff, but important stuff to families and optimism for what we can do.
Tori Dunlap:
Guys, we got Senator Warren. I’m so excited. It was so nice. It was such a good interview. Okay, so backstory. We were supposed to interview her when I was at the DNC. And I was looking forward to it all week, and I wasn’t sleeping because I was too excited, and then her team had to cancel. That’s okay. It’s okay. Shit happens. It’s okay. I was like, okay, but maybe we can get her before the election happens. And then we’re recording this October 28th. We’re like, I don’t know if that’s going to happen. It’s like a week till the election. We got her. We got her. She is my favorite. I voted for her, and I told her this before we hopped on mic. I voted for her in every primary I could. I love her work. I love her policies. I love who she is as a person.
I’m just… Senator Warren, if you have no fans, I am dead. So we’re just really excited to have her. We’re talking today about, actually, not really about the election, but about policies specifically. So we’re talking about affordable housing, we’re talking about affordable healthcare, and childcare and how expensive it is and what we can do about it. We’re just really excited. I’m just thrilled to have her. This was just such a cool this is my job, this is my work, this is my life day today. I got to ask her a really off the cuff question, but something I’ve been wanting to ask her for a while about her moment at the DNC. And if you haven’t seen it, go watch it. It is some of the most moving, emotional stuff you’ll see today. Okay, let’s get into it. Elizabeth Warren, a fearless consumer advocate who has made her life’s work the fight for middle-class families was elected to the United States Senate on November 6th, 2012 by the people of Massachusetts.
Elizabeth is recognized as one of the nation’s top experts on bankruptcy and the financial pressures facing middle-class families. And the Boston Globe has called her “the plain spoken voice of people getting crushed by so many predatory lenders and under regulated banks.” She’s widely credited for original thinking, political courage, and relentless persistence that led to the creation of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. If you don’t know what that is, look it up. I also mentioned it in my book. I didn’t get a chance to tell her that, but that is a huge reason why she’s just helping individuals be protected from a lot of the bullshit that happened in 2008. Her work with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is absolutely incredible. Elizabeth learned firsthand about the economic pressures facing working families growing up in a family, she says was on the ragged edge of the middle class.
She got married at 19, then after graduating from college, started teaching in elementary school. Her first baby, a daughter, Amelia, was born when Elizabeth was 22. When Amelia was two, Elizabeth started law school. And shortly after she graduated, her son Alex was born. Elizabeth hung out a shingle and practiced law out of her living room, but soon she returned to teaching. She’s a graduate in the University of Houston and Rutgers School of Law. She and her husband, Bruce Mann, have been married for 38 years and live in Cambridge, Massachusetts with their golden retriever Bailey, and they have three grandchildren. We just have a really, really great interview with a senator. And yeah, I’ve already cried too much today, so let’s just get into the interview. But first a word from our sponsors.
We are so excited to have you, Senator Warren. Thank you for being here.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be with you.
Tori Dunlap:
We couldn’t start our discussion on financial feminists without talking about your history in the personal finance space. So you have two books you’ve written about personal finance. What for you is the impetus in writing those books and where does your love for personal finance start?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
So for me, it’s always been this intersection about how families, people, individuals do the best they can, given the set of rules out there to try to build security for themselves. But the rules matter too. And if the rules are loaded against you, then it’s a lot harder uphill struggle. If they create wind at your back, then it’s going to be a lot better for building security and independence. So I think of it this way. I wrote those two books to say, “Hey, look, it’s a scary world out there. Here are things you can do given that set of rules.” And then I went to the United States Senate to try to change those rules to put more wind at people’s backs.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I always say that personal finance is about 20% your personal choices, how well the personal finance basics, and 80%, all of the systemic issues we’re facing too.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Yep. Bingo.
Tori Dunlap:
And you can’t budget your way out of poverty, as we know.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
So this is where the policies have to come in.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Yep.
Tori Dunlap:
So did you find that your experience with personal finance now informs your work as a senator, and in the legislation you try to support?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Absolutely. And look, remember I kind of got to Washington ahead of going to the Senate, and that was through the consumer financial protection Bureau. When we came out of the big crash in 2008, let’s face it, 6 million people lost their homes, and not because they made stupid decisions, but because they were in a world where it was possible to cheat them, and then take away their houses. And so for me, I wanted that consumer agency to make sure that never happened again. And by the way, just to make this very contemporaneous, right in that time period is exactly when I met Kamala Harris.
She was Attorney General in California. I had been called in. We had just gotten the consumer agency passed into law, and President Obama said, “Will you come to Washington and set it up, make it work? You told us it was going to work. Make it happen.” And I ended up meeting then Attorney General Harris in the fight to try to help as many families save their homes as possible. And that’s when I saw her as a fierce warrior on the side of the people, but most importantly, somebody with the courage to take on the big banks, and that’s something I respect deeply.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, in a lot of your work with Vice President Harris, you work together to address some of the challenges that renters face, particularly during the pandemic. What further protections do you believe are necessary? Can you talk to me a little bit about that work?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
So we need two kinds of protections for renters. One of them is that private equity has moved into the renter space, and these guys are not only buying up much of the stock, they’re then using some techniques that look a lot to me like price fixing so that they’re pushing the prices up, the rental costs up. So that’s number one, is we got to beat these Wall Street guys out of this space and let rents come back down. But the second is econ 101. It’s supply. The way we’re going to make housing more affordable in America is we just have to build more housing. And that means housing in big cities. It means housing in little towns, urban, rural, but particularly housing for first time home buyers as a wealth builder, but also investments in apartments. Because if you’re spending so much money on rent, it’s hard to save up money to be able to buy that first house.
Here’s a space where the vice president and I are very much aligned. We have a plan to build about 3 million new housing units all across America, and that’s both single family houses, it’s condos, it’s apartments, it’s more, more, more housing, because that’s going to be the way to get down that price so that people will be able to buy a home, to buy a condo, to buy the place where they live and build wealth around that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So when we talk about home buying… I live in Seattle where the average home price is-
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Yep
Tori Dunlap:
875, I think right now for a starter home.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Crazy.
Tori Dunlap:
When we’re talking about the significant barriers to home ownership, obviously cost is one of them. Availability is a huge one. What other barriers are we seeing, especially for folks who might be in marginalized groups?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Well, so those are the first two. The third is access to capital. You got to be able to locate money. And that, for many, becomes a challenge, especially in marginalized groups. And the fourth, I’m going to go back to the point we made earlier just because we’ll make sure it stays on the list, it’s competing with Wall Street. You may look today at what looked like entry level homes in Seattle, and you may think, well, I’m just out there competing against other folks in my circumstances, people who don’t have a home. Maybe there are two of us. Maybe there’s only one of us, but I’m going to try to make this happen. And it turns out you’re competing with an investment group that comes in and offers all cash, and then turns that cute little two bedroom, one bath fixer upper into rental property and just sucks one more, and one more, and one more house off the market so that there are fewer and fewer homes to be able to buy and more and more people who just have to stay in rental, rental, rental forever.
So it goes back to where you and I started the policies that right now give tax breaks to the private equity guys who are coming in and buying up those houses so that you can’t buy one, so others in your circumstances can’t buy one, we need to change those rules because changing those rules is a big part of what’s going to put housing within reach of folks who want to live in it. Houses should be for people, not for corporations. And that’s going to be a legal policy question. And in effect, that’s one of the things that’s going to be on the ballot on November 5th.
Tori Dunlap:
When we’re talking about home buying, I have to touch on the economy as well. Obviously you know this, but we’re hearing from our audience too. That’s the number one issue that is of concern to people. So how does getting more homes available and this commitment to building 3 million homes, how does that help our economy?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Well, think of it this way. You can either decide that an economy is going to be run for a handful at the top, in which case you don’t want to say, “Oh, we’re going to tax those folks at the top and make investments in things like homes.” Instead, you say, “I know what we’ll do. We’ll give more tax breaks to those at the top and less regulation.” And that means billionaires can be multi-multi-billionaires, right? They just get richer and richer and richer because they have the capital already, and they can come in and just extract more wealth from everybody else. I remember decades back when paying more than 28% of your income on housing was a big no-no. Don’t do that. That means you’re overspending on housing. And today, we have a substantial number of people who are paying 50% of their income on housing because they don’t have any choice.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. That’s still kind of the rule with personal finance.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. That’s still kind of the rule that you shouldn’t pay more than 20%. And I’m like, what city are you living in?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Exactly. Yeah. Where are you living? What planet are you living on? But again, it goes back to because of policies. So the Republicans, Donald Trump in particular, is saying he’s going to help out those at the top, he’s going to give them some more tax breaks, and he’s going to make sure they don’t face any regulations. And believe me, that means there will be wealth. It’s just all wealth at the top. The folks who are already wealthy will get wealthier. The idea behind what Harris is doing, what Democrats are doing in both, what she will do as president, but also in these House and Senate races as well, is to say, wait a minute, let’s put taxes on those at the top because they haven’t been paying a fair share. I just don’t think it’s right that Jeff Bezos, one of the richest people in the world, pays at a lower tax rate than a Boston public school teacher. Are you kidding me? So the idea is we increase taxes for those at the top, not crazy. Believe me, they will still be able to buy all the things.
Tori Dunlap:
They’ll still be billionaires. They’re going to be fine.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
That’s right. They’re still going to be billionaires. They’ll be fine. But then we take that money and we invest it. So for example, we invested in housing that you and I were just talking about to make sure the incentives are there to build more housing and to bring down the cost of that housing. But we invested in other things. We invested in child care, universal child care. Think how that brings down costs for mamas and daddies who want to work, right? We have to start treating child care like infrastructure. That’s something I believe that’s something Kamala Harris believes. That’s something the Democrats believe. When we make investments in bringing down the cost of healthcare, when we make investments in bringing down the cost of housing and bringing down the cost of child care, when we make those investments, now we’ve got a robust economy that is generating wealth, but it’s generating wealth for working families.
It’s generating wealth in the middle, and it’s creating more opportunity for people who may be poor today, but there are more openings. There aren’t a lot of openings at the billionaire level. And to the extent they are, you’ve got to start as a multi, multi, multi millionaire, right? That’s how you make it into that one. When you have a growing, expanding, middle class working class, you also are creating opportunities for folks straight out of school. You’re creating opportunities for people who maybe don’t have a lot of work experience, but an employer will take a chance on it because they need that employee. So it’s two different visions of how you design the rules, and that in turn will make a difference on how many people get to buy a home, get to have a decent job, and get to build a secure economic future.
Tori Dunlap:
What legislation, affordable housing or otherwise, are you feeling particularly helpful about?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
The two right at the top of my list on the economic front are universal child care and this big housing package. And I’ll tell you why I’m hopeful. I’m hopeful in universal child care because we just, the Democrats just made a big breakthrough and made a big infrastructure investment after decades of under investment in infrastructure, roads, bridges, broadband. We finally said, “This is it. We’re going to make this big investment.” And by the way, as I like to point out, every bridge that gets built, the dollars don’t stop at the bridge. Those are paychecks. Those are other people who then have work, and it moves all the way through the community. So that’s great, but my big pitch is that we make those investments because it makes us all richer, having an interstate highway system, having those bridges, having broadband because more people can participate in the economy.
For mamas with babies, let’s be clear, child care is infrastructure. So I have been pounding on my colleagues in the United States Senate and the House, and they just see me coming and say, “Okay, okay, I get it. Child care is infrastructure.” But the point is, it’s like changing the mindset. And when you ask me where I’m optimistic, I think we got our toes on the line on this one. We came close in 2022, then the Republicans took over. Nothing moved for two years. But if we get that trifecta, Kamala Harris and the White House Democratic control of the House and Senate, we’ve got a real chance to do not just a little bit on childcare, but truly to say, nobody in America spends more than 7% of their income on childcare. No matter how many babies you’ve got, wherever your income is, if you’re in a high-cost area, we’re going to just cap it at 7% of your income and the federal government is going to make sure we pay the rest of it, and we raise the wages of our childcare workers.
That’s going to be key, and that’s going to have an economic boost. So that was number one. Number two is this housing plan. And the housing plan is the supply-side plan. We’re going to build more housing, put money in to incentivize more housing being built. And it has the second part is we’re going to try to push these corporate private equity guys out of the housing market. So when you go to buy your first home, you’re not competing with some Wall Street type for whom this is his fourth house purchase today, all in cash as he metaphorically rolls the bills off his wad and lays them on the table. You’re competing with other families, but that there will be more housing and fewer corporations.
Tori Dunlap:
Senator, I would be remiss to ask you, I was lucky enough to be at the DNC, and your speech was just so moving, but you also… You had this lovely moment of absolute vulnerability that I haven’t seen in a long time, arguably ever, where the crowd was just so excited you were there and so in awe of you, and you just took it all in, and you were clearly emotional. What did that feel like? Because clearly that hit you in a very emotional way.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
I get emotional when I think about that moment.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
I think of it as the fights we’ve been in together, and we are a band of people who truly believe that we could put government on the side of people, not billionaires, not giant corporations, not private equity guys with their computers to figure out how to suck up every house in a neighborhood, that we could actually make government work better for people. We can deliver on that. And I felt this moment, with all these people in this big arena, I felt this moment of people cheering both for some of what we’ve gotten done, like $35 insulin or getting rid of damn junk fees or breaking a hearing aid monopoly. Not huge headline stuff, but important stuff to families, and optimism for what we can do. And that’s what gets me up in the morning.
Tori Dunlap:
My last question for you, if someone is listening to this before the election, if someone’s listening after the election, what can someone do to support the kind of policies we’re talking about?
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Okay, so before the election-
Tori Dunlap:
Vote.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Make sure you vote. Vote, vote, vote, vote, vote. And I really want to say vote democratic. I’m sorry. That’s where the policies line up. So it’s vote. If you could squeeze out an extra minute, an extra half hour, an extra hour, volunteer in one of the swing states. We’ve got seven states that are in play. Make phone calls. If it’s possible in your circumstances, get in the car and drive there and spend next weekend knocking on doors. Send in 10 bucks to one of the Senate candidates that’s running, or to Kamala Harris. 10 bucks buys a pizza. Well, 20 maybe, okay, buys a pizza for some volunteers who stay in and work on through dinner. Do everything you can to help in this election.
And then if you’re listening to this post-election, please, please, please, let’s all hope. We’re talking about the things we can do, because here’s the deal. Even when we elect good people, they still need to push from all of us here in America to keep them moving in the right direction. And we need to get childcare done, we need to get housing done, we need to bring down the cost of healthcare and make it more accessible, but it’s going to take people, like the people who are listening to this podcast, who say, “I’m going to give a shove and help make sure that happens.”
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you, Senator, so much for your work, and thanks for being here.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
Well, thank you for your work, and let’s do this again.
Tori Dunlap:
I would love that. Oh, that was great. Thank you.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
You bet.
Tori Dunlap:
I know you have a bunch more of these to do. Thank you for your work, and please take a nap when you’re able.
Senator Elizabeth Warren:
I will. All right. Take care. Bye-bye.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much to Senator Warren and her team for coming on the show. I’m not going to be too heavy-handed here. Please vote. Please volunteer where you’re able. We got less than five days, so please get out, make your voices heard. We really appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day financial feminists. Share the episode if you’re able. Okay, bye.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, and Tamisha Grant, research by Sarah Sciortino, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew.
Special thanks to our team at Her First $100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Taylor Chou, Sasha Bonnar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Kurronen, Daryl Ann Ingram, and Meghan Walker, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound.
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Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
