Feeling stuck and unsure how to break free financially? This episode is your wake-up call. Join host Tori Dunlap for an inspiring conversation with repeat guest, Jannese Torres, award-winning Latina Money Expert and author of the bestselling book “Financially Lit.”
Jannese became an accidental entrepreneur after a job loss led her to create a successful Latin food blog, Delish D’Lites. Now, she helps her clients and listeners build successful online businesses that allow them to pursue financial independence and freedom.
Jannese is on a mission to educate marginalized communities on topics like entrepreneurship, investing, and financial independence. She’s here to debunk the myth that wealth is reserved for a lucky few and show you exactly how to become “financially lit.”
Key takeaways and tips:
- Latinas are shattering financial barriers. Jannese acknowledges the cultural and systemic hurdles Latinas face in building wealth. She emphasizes the importance of Latinas overcoming these challenges and highlights the power of financial literacy in achieving financial freedom.
- Self-belief is key. Trust yourself and your ability to figure things out. Don’t rely on approval from others.
- Reframe money management. Challenge negative self-talk and limiting beliefs about money. View every dollar as an investment in your future and your overall well-being
- Maintain financial transparency in relationships. Discuss financial values and goals before marriage or serious commitment. Look at prenups as being a tool for financial protection, not a sign of distrust.
- Negotiate your worth. Don’t be afraid to negotiate your salary, bills and interest rates. You deserve to be fairly compensated for your work.
- Financial security equals freedom. Financial security gives you the ability to make choices based on your values, not out of necessity.
- Challenging stereotypes. Wealth is not reserved for a privileged few. When you are financially secure, you can help change the system for others and give back to your community.
Notable quotes
“The squeaky wheel gets the oil. you got to make some fucking noise if you want people to pay attention to you.”
“What is meant for me will wait for me until I’m ready to receive it…that helps me realize I don’t actually have to do all of this shit at once, I don’t actually have to check off all of these things right here, right now.”
“I want it to be very normal to be the millionaire next door and be a woman of color. Because so often, we have examples in our community of what it means to be successful. It’s the singer, it’s the dancer, it’s the actress, it’s the movie star, blah, blah, blah. And I just want regular schmegular girlies with seven figures net worth to be my neighbor.”
Episode at-a-glance:
≫ 02:43 Navigating Latina first gen finances and overcoming generational money stories
≫ 05:20 The power of investing in yourself and embracing change
≫ 16:38 Addressing the wealth and pay gap – a call for systemic change
≫ 20:58 The entrepreneurial path as a means to financial freedom
≫ 23:56 The importance of diversifying income and financial security
≫ 25:41 Navigating wealth guilt and emotional growth
≫ 29:56 Embracing change and overcoming self-doubt
≫ 32:10 The power of financial independence
≫ 34:37 Navigating divorce and financial compatibility
≫ 41:20 Becoming financially unfuckable with
≫ 49:28 Empowering communities through financial literacy
Jannese’s Links:
Jannese’s podcast: Yo Quiero Dinero
Jannese’s book: Financially Lit! The Modern Latina’s Guide to Level Up Your Dinero & Become Financially Poderosa
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Meet Jannese
Jannese Torres is an award-winning Latina Money Expert. She became an accidental entrepreneur after a job loss led her to create a successful Latin food blog, Delish D’Lites. Now, she helps her clients and listeners build successful online businesses that allow them to pursue financial independence and freedom.
Jannese is on a mission to educate marginalized communities on topics like entrepreneurship, investing, and financial independence through her personal finance podcast, “Yo Quiero Dinero.”
Her book, Financially Lit!, is now available for purchase where all books are sold.
Transcript:
Jannese Torres:
I always go back to this mantra, if you will, where… I get very metaphysical with it, but it’s pretty much like your ancestors survived so that you could thrive, okay? So we’re not doing basic shit anymore. We’re beyond that.
Tori Dunlap:
We were talking about Book of Mormon before this. I’m trying to figure out… So I’m going to New York again, and New York’s my favorite place in the earth. We can start with this, this is fine. And I’m bringing my partner, and my partner has not been to New York, so I’m trying to decide. He is a massive Les Mis fan, knows more Les Mis lyrics than I do, but he’s a sports boy at heart. And so I’m trying to figure out what is the musical that is not too musically, if that makes sense. You know the people in your life, they’re typically your dad, and you’re trying to find the musical that your dad will like and appreciate but is still fun for you, the more theatrical goer. So that’s what we’re dealing with. So right now I’m thinking Book of Mormon or Six, but I’ve seen both of them many times before. This would be my fourth time for Book of Mormon, and actually my fourth time for Six. And so I am trying to also see a show that maybe we haven’t seen.
So if you have suggestions, I’m going to see Gatsby, I think I’m going to see The Notebook, maybe Water for Elephants. I still haven’t seen Kimberly Akimbo. There’s stuff that’s on my list, and I have a week to myself before we start, and then he comes a week after. So we’re going to see what happens.
Hi, my financial feminists. I’m thrilled you’re here. Thank you for being here. If you’re an oldie but a goodie, welcome back, and if you’re new here, hi, I’m Tori. I have a theater degree, in case that wasn’t obvious, and now I teach people about personal finance. Fucking crazy. We are a community now of 5 million people, which is absolutely wild, and actually, we talk a bit about it in this episode. But I’m a New York Times best-selling author, we host this show, which is the number one money podcast for women in the world, and we just appreciate you being here. If you like the show, you can subscribe, you can share it with a friend, you can do all of that. Today’s guest is a repeat guest. She is a colleague and a friend of mine, who is also a finance educator, and her episode on Side Hustles was still one of our most popular episodes. So if you haven’t listened to that one, go back and listen to that one. But Jannese is back, baby.
Jannese Torres is an award-winning Latina money expert. She became an accidental entrepreneur after a job loss, led her to create a successful Latin food blog, Delish D’Lites. Now she helps clients and listeners build successful online businesses that allow them to pursue financial independence and freedom. Jannese is on a mission to educate marginalized communities on topics like entrepreneurship, investing, and financial independence through her personal finance podcast, Yo Quiero Dinero. Her first book Financially Lit is out now, and you can get a copy wherever books are sold. Today’s episode we talk about Latina first-gen finances, overcoming generational money stories, and the pressure that a lot of first-gen and immigrants feel to, quote-unquote, do the right thing when it comes to money. We also talk about managing the grief that comes with making different choices than your family wanted you to, and also outgrowing your friend group, all of that fun stuff, which is something I think we all experience, which is like, “I have ambitions, and I have goals, and I need people around me who are going to support those ambitions and goals.”
We also talk about divorce, and how to protect your finance in partnerships. She tells her story about her divorce that she went through and learned a lot. So if you are consciously uncoupling, or something more dramatic than that, this is going to be a good episode for you. All right, team, let’s go ahead and get into it.
But first a word from our sponsors.
I got to know what all the sticky notes are behind you.
Jannese Torres:
Oh, that’s enrollment for my side hustle program, latest launch.
Tori Dunlap:
I love it.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
If you’re not watching on YouTube, she’s got what? Probably 30, 40?
Jannese Torres:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Little beautiful sticky notes with people’s names on them, and I love that.
Jannese Torres:
I like remembering that there are whole humans that invest in you as a creator, and it’s a nice reminder to just be like, “These are actual people,” and be grateful for them.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it breaks my brain a little bit to think about because we have about 2 million on Instagram, and over two on TikTok, so we’re at almost five now, total. And every once in a while, when I just need to touch grass, I Google “stadium seating”, how many people can you fit in a stadium? And the biggest stadiums are about a hundred thousand people.
Jannese Torres:
There you go.
Tori Dunlap:
And I’m like, “Oh, we’ve got 40, 50 of those.”
Jannese Torres:
That is perspective.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. Yep. Breaks your brain a little bit, makes you a little terrified, but yeah, it’s like, “Okay, there’s actual people out there that you are serving and that you are in this community.”
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep, totally. We’re really excited to have you back on the show, thank you for being here.
Jannese Torres:
Thank you for having me.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s still one of our most popular episodes where we talked about side hustles, so if you are listening to this episode and you’re like, “Haven’t listened to the first one,” I would recommend going back because it’s a great one. We hosted the episode together, but this time we’re, of course, focusing on you. So I would love to start the episode how we usually start episodes with money experts, which is by asking what is your first money memory? What is the first time you remember thinking about money?
Jannese Torres:
I want to say it’s something to do with my mom balancing a checkbook, which, if you’re Gen Z, you probably don’t even know what the hell a checkbook is, so my apologies. But it was this thing that you would use to account your balances in your bank account, just basically keeping track of purchases, and I always saw her managing the money in the household, but she was never the one to make all the money in the household, it was my dad. So there was this duality of the women handle the money, but the men make the money. I think that’s the first memory I have. And then I realized, “Well, I want to be the man, so I’m going to go figure out what the hell my dad’s doing to make a bunch of money.” And that’s literally how I ended up being an engineer just like him, because I’m like, “He’s bringing in the bank. I want to do that too.”
Tori Dunlap:
I love it. Yeah, I think that’s a common response, which is just, “Yeah, I saw my parents manage money.” Typically, what we draw from, if you are a new listener to the show, is we have a whole practice on this in my book, is that your first money memory, to your point about what it made you do in your career, it’s typically very indicative of how you continue to manage money, what your money beliefs were as you continue to age. So it’s always a fun little question we like asking of, “Dig into your financial trauma. Tell me more about your childhood.” It feels a bit like therapy.
Jannese Torres:
It’s an awesome icebreaker.
Tori Dunlap:
I know you’ve had a lot of changes in your life, both personally and professionally, in the last couple years. Give me the rundown on a few of those.
Jannese Torres:
Well, I quit my job, got a divorce, moved to another state, started a new relationship. Well, shall I go on? I mean, there’s just been so much that’s happened since I’ve started this platform, and it’s been cool because there’s OG followers who have followed along the journey, and I guess I didn’t realize how much, just you sharing your life, can inspire people to then make necessary changes in their lives. And so as I’ve shared both my personal and professional milestones, if you will, I’ve just had so many people reach out and just be like, “Thank you for helping me navigate this life stage.” Whether it is a breakup or learning how to transition from corporate to your own business, and things like that. So it’s been cathartic, almost, to share this stuff because you realize you’re not the only one going through things. And I think it’s the same thing with money.
A lot of the times, we feel like we’re the only ones dealing with the situation, and when you find out somebody else is actually having the exact same struggle as you, it can make you feel better and it can give you that boost that you need to start making some changes within your own life.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I think the thing I’ve realized about my work about any… Especially woman creators work when it comes to money, is it’s like, yes, we’re really good at teaching you how to be better with money and the actual actionable steps, but people come to us for reassurance. They come to us to feel seen, they come to us to feel like, yeah, they’re not alone, and that they maybe have hope for the first time in their lives. And I think one of the things that you do really, really well in your content and in your own life is, pun intended, but investing in yourself as your best asset. And I wish that more women understood how powerful it is to bet on yourself and to believe yourself worthy of opportunities, and love, and money, and success. So maybe just speak on that investing in yourself mindset that you’ve really had to put to the test over the last couple years.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah, I think the best example is absolutely making the decision to leave a nine-year marriage, 16-year relationship, even though I knew I had to do it. It wasn’t a question of, “Is there something that we can work out here?” It was an untenable situation. And just like the loss of identity that happens when you decide to make a shift, whether it’s like, “Oh, this whole group of people, I’m no longer going to have a connection to,” or, “This life that I imagined for myself is no longer going to exist.” I think that’s the thing that scares the shit out of people more than anything. It’s not knowing who that next version of yourself is going to be, and that is absolutely the case if you decide to quit your job and start a business, or become a mom. There’s so many things that you hope you’re making a good decision and you hope it’s going to pay off in the future, but you don’t have 100% guarantee.
And I think I’ve gotten really good with not needing the guarantee because I have a lot of examples of figuring shit out in my life when I look at the things I’ve been through, the things I’ve been able to overcome. And I think a lot of us could do more of that self-analysis, if you will, of just, “What’s all the shit I’ve actually overcome? And is this new thing that I’m facing the scariest thing I’ve been through?” Probably not. You probably have some really great examples of you being resilient, and I think that helps me be able to invest in myself because I know I’m going to figure out one way or another. You really have to just get to a place where you’re confident in being able to navigate whatever life comes your way, and money absolutely helps you do that much easier.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. We’ve had a lot of conversations on this show about loss of identity or knowing you need to make a decision, but realizing that’s going to be a life altering decision. And I think what a lot of people do is, to your point, they know the decision. It’s what happens when you are about to fall asleep at night and there’s something inside of you, something in your brain, something in your gut, that’s just like, “I’m not happy. This isn’t it. This isn’t the life that I want.” And that is an opportunity for you to either listen to yourself, to trust yourself, and to remind you that if you start denying yourself what you know, you’re literally gaslighting yourself to the point where your intuition won’t speak up anymore, it won’t be there in the same way. Or you can say, “I’m going to investigate this more and I’m going to figure out.” Yes, even if it’s hard, even if it upends my entire life, you deserve a life that is deserving of you.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah. I always go back to this mantra, if you will, where… I get very metaphysical with it, but it’s pretty like your ancestors survived so that you could thrive, okay? So we’re not doing basic shit anymore. We’re beyond that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep, yeah. Well, and that’s the first line of your book, right? She’s carrying the heavy weight of her ancestors and their sacrifices. Talk to me about this weight that anybody feels, but especially first gen, second gen, how did this show up for you?
Jannese Torres:
Well, I think the sacrifices are very apparent in our faces, whether it’s like your family literally left their home country, they don’t speak the native language of where we live because they just came from somewhere else. They might not have paperwork, they might be undocumented, and so they can’t even work a traditional job. There’s just a lot of examples of the privilege that you have that you’re somehow supposed to maximize these privileges. And there is so much pressure, I think, for folks who are eldest daughters, first gen kids, people who have been given, quote-unquote, the opportunity to pursue the American Dream, to just make sure that you are squeezing out every single last drop of that because it’s not only about you, it’s about repaying the sacrifices. It’s about making mom and dad proud, it’s about giving the family back home a reason to say, “Oh, this is why they had to leave, because this is what they were able to accomplish.” And what I think happens is what we’re seeing right now, there’s this collective burnout. A lot of people are just fucking tired because-
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and the pressure.
Jannese Torres:
The pressure is exhausting.
Tori Dunlap:
As soon as you say that, I’m just like, “The pressure’s nuts of…” It’s hard enough just to live up to your own expectations, yet alone the expectations, and the stress, and the weight of, “Oh, everybody’s sacrificed for me to be here.”
Jannese Torres:
And I think it’s also the fact that when you are given these privileges, let’s say just like being born an American, you have access to spaces that your family members did not, whether that’s education or corporate jobs, and things like that. And then you got to navigate these spaces on your own because nobody else knows what the hell’s going on. I couldn’t ask my parents, “Hey, how do I fill out the FAFSA?” Or “How do I apply for student loans?” Or “How do I negotiate my salary?” I don’t fucking know. My parents been working in the same places for 20-something years. They’re like, “You don’t leave jobs. You don’t leave once you’re there.” And there’s just this clash that’s generational, in a sense, where their advice doesn’t necessarily apply to all of the things that we’re having to navigate. And then there’s just this feeling of overwhelm that compounds the issue.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, obviously this feeling is more intense for women, for people of color if you’re a member of any minority group. But I see this scarcity mindset or this pressure in every single person, and in myself. My partner is a white man, and what we’ve done over the past couple of years since we started dating was the realization that a lot of his beliefs in his family about, “Yeah, you stay in one job, you don’t ask for more, you just keep your head down and you do good work.” And I’m having to coach him through like, “No, you are worth more.” It’s that John Mulaney quote where it’s like, “I didn’t realize how I should be treated until my girlfriend was right next to me telling me how I should be treated. The bus driver shouldn’t talk to you that way.” No, he shouldn’t. So it’s very much that realization of you have all of the pressures, and the privileges are not privileges of your skin color, of your gender identity, of your sexuality, all the rest of that.
But also, it’s just like, what did your parents teach you or what did they not teach you? Or how do they manage money? How do they look at their careers? How do they think about their own self-worth? And how did that then impact you?
Jannese Torres:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I had the same situation with my partner. When I first met him, he’s like, “I don’t have any credit cards. My dad told me credit cards are the devil because he listened to Dave Ramsey and he said, “You should buy everything in cash.”” And I’m like, “Honey, unless you’re going to buy a $500,000 home in cash, I’m going to need you to open a credit card and improve your credit score because your dad is not living in reality.” And so it’s just like, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Yeah, and to your point about… I think about a lot if you grew up in the United States and you had maybe parents, maybe even grandparents, great-grandparents who grew up here, it’s hard enough to navigate this financial system. It’s confusing, it’s predatory, it’s often just complete nutter, bullshit. Yet alone someone who is coming here for the first time. I’ve studied abroad, I tried to navigate other financial systems, it’s hard enough. I think that pressure is… Again, the pressure and just the realization of you’re not starting at zero, you’re starting at negative 50 or negative 100 just to try to figure out what everybody else knows.
Jannese Torres:
Well, and if you want to take a look at just the wealth gap and the pay gap, and how people of color are being asked to pursue the American Dream with a third of the budget, half of the budget, and it’s just like when you get to the point where you hear all this bullshit about, “Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just work harder.” It’s like, “What the fuck are you talking about? Latinas make 54 cents to a white man’s dollar.” We literally don’t get the same amount of money to do the same work, so how the hell can we accomplish the same things. And then somehow we’re going to project it as, “Oh, well, they just don’t work hard enough, or they don’t pursue the right careers, or they’re just not educated, blah, blah, blah.” It’s a very toxic narrative, and that’s why I think it’s so important for the work that we’re doing to diversify the conversations around money, and also taking cultural context and putting it into the conversation, because it’s an essential part of this.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and what you mentioned, I want to double click on that, dig deeper, is we know that if you’re a woman of color, you’re making less, but that Latina specifically are one of the worst groups for income inequality compared to other women. Definitely compared to white men. Talk to me about that a little bit more, and some of the reasons that you explore in your book for why this is.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah. Well, there’s obviously a multitude of reasons why this is the case. Some of it is definitely attributed to just the fields of work that Latinas can find themselves in. One of the great examples is of the pandemic. Latinas were overrepresented in the retail and service industry space during the pandemic, and a lot of them had to leave the workforce because of everything that happened with COVID-19 and the pandemic. So there is that we’re overrepresented in lower paying industries that’s playing a role, but even when you equalize for education, there is still a pay disparity. And I share the story of Caridad Garcia who was a counselor who found out that her employer was paying a fellow employee who was a white man… I think it was like $10,000 more for the same job and same experience, same qualifications, whatever. And when she brings it up to them, it’s just like, “Well, there’s nothing we can do.” And she ends up going off, starting her own business, doing all that shit. And it’s just like these jobs know what they’re doing.
And in the chapter of the book where I talk about the pay gap and how to negotiate for your salary, I end it with a letter to corporate America because it’s not just for us to fix this shit. I can job hop till the cows come home, I can negotiate my salary, but these companies are still funding politicians who are actively working against paid parental leave and paid sick leave. And we are the only industrialized country that does not have guaranteed time off that’s paid. So it’s just like we can be part of the solution, but there has to be collective action. And we do need people in power to take accountability and responsibility for the system that they’ve created, but they’re not going to because it is in their incentive to pay us as little as possible and send those profits over to investors, which is why we also need to educate ourselves in that aspect of things too, because that’s a way that we can bridge the wage gap when these jobs just don’t want to pay you what you deserve.
Tori Dunlap:
And then we also talk about the societal expectation beyond just the system that exists, but specifically the, “Okay, I’m asking for more money.” And then the response is, “Well, you’re being greedy, why do you want more money?” Or we’re more likely to punish women who negotiate because all the data and the research is coming out now that says women are negotiating slightly less than men, but it’s a lot higher than it used to be. So the problem is less women aren’t negotiating and more when they do negotiate, they’re either being punished, there’s some sort of backlash, or just they’re met with, “Who do you think you are? No. No, I’m not going to give you more money.” It’s like, “Okay, well, you’re paying Chad more money, so what is that?”
Jannese Torres:
Well, I also think that’s why we see more and more women following a different path and deciding to explore entrepreneurship.
Tori Dunlap:
Entrepreneurship, right?
Jannese Torres:
Because that is the way that we can also become the system that we’re trying to change. I always tell people, “If you get to a point where you actually can employ people as a business owner, you are actively bridging that wage gap. You are actively reshaping this capitalist system.” And I do believe that-
Tori Dunlap:
And offering the kind of benefits that everybody else should offer.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Jannese Torres:
So we have to be a part of the change that we wish to see, and that’s why even though entrepreneurship is not for everyone, I do think that it is a powerful tool that we can utilize, especially as women and people of color, to reshape the system and create something new because this shit’s not working.
Tori Dunlap:
I think you’re the perfect person actually, to talk to you about this more. I have wanted… Let me first say, nine-to-fives, if you love that, if you’re compensated fairly, if you feel like you’re in a good company that treats you well and that you can at least tolerate, it’s a job that you like enough. You’re like, “Cool.” Great. I am not going to say, “Okay, you have to become an entrepreneur.” Here’s the thing though, and I think you agree with me, a lot of people ask me, “Tori, how did you become a millionaire? How did you go from $100,000 at 25 to a multimillionaire less than two years later?” It was entrepreneurship, guys.
Jannese Torres:
Facts, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes, it was investing. Yes, it was saving. Yes, it was budgeting, but 98% of it was because I started a business that was doing numbers and making good money, and especially when I barely had anybody working around me, all of that money was… That was my money. So again, I don’t think you have to be an entrepreneur. I will say that there is a lot of shit you got to deal with as an entrepreneur that I don’t love, and wish I was in a nine-to-five all the time, but the flexibility, the opportunity, and the potential money that’s there is substantial.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely. And I think if we’re getting real about how expensive it is to pursue the American Dream right now, most of us are not going to be able to do that with a single income. If you have aspirations to buy a home, to have a family, because literally having kids at this point is a privilege for people with money because it’s so goddamn expensive.
Tori Dunlap:
Or even to rent, in most cities. You’re what? Are you Miami, Puerto Rico, where are you at?
Jannese Torres:
I am in Tampa.
Tori Dunlap:
Tampa, okay. Tampa’s pretty expensive.
Jannese Torres:
Tampa’s seen explosive growth since the pandemic.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m in Seattle, it’s crazy. Now, I think percentage wise, from where we were in 2019 to now, the percentage is one of the highest, if not the highest in the country. So yeah, shit’s expensive. Shit’s crazy expensive.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah. And if you want to make financial progress, you have to figure out other ways to make money. And ideally, that’s utilizing your existing skill set and turning it into some sort of side hustle. You never know if it’s going to be able to blow up into a business, but I think even from a financial security standpoint, because let’s be honest, with all the layoffs that we’ve seen in the past couple of years, even those, quote-unquote, safe tech jobs and all that shit that people were telling you, “Just get into this industry, you’ll be fine.” It’s all bullshit. At the end of the day, these companies are beholden to investors. If their numbers aren’t making sense, you’re going to be the first to go, and you need to just be able to become your own money printer because you just never know when you’re going to have to deploy that skill set. So I’m very much in favor of everybody needs a side hustle. It may not be something you’re actively doing right now because you don’t need it, but you better have a way to make money if and when that time comes.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. And even opening up a high yield savings account, something like that, that is money, is income. It’s not a lot, but it’s better than nothing. So yeah, even just thinking… Neither of us are advocates for hustle culture, but we are advocates for giving a trap door exit. And that’s why the emergency fund is so powerful, that’s why, to your point, diversifying your income sources, and again, that doesn’t have to be more work right now, but just having the idea and the understanding of, “Okay, I do get laid off, what happens next? Okay, I do want to afford a house and I’m willing to work maybe a little bit more for six months because this is the thing I really, really want, and it’s going to set me up for success later.” So yeah, I appreciate you saying that. There’s a line in the book, quote, “No one talks about the grief that comes with growth.” Oh, boy. Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. Oh, buddy. This one. Share with me more about what this looked like for you and some of the women in your community.
And I will also chime in because this quote… It just hit me right where it hurt.
Jannese Torres:
Well, this is from the chapter chapter that’s called When Jenny from the Block Becomes Jenny with the Bag. And I wanted to have a chapter specifically dedicated to this concept of wealth guilt because everybody’s out here telling us to go pursue that shit, but what about the feelings? What about all these emotions that I was not anticipating having to navigate? And being part of a community where poverty and struggle is the norm, when you make it out of that, and you come back and you realize how many people are still in that place, it’s a lot. You feel guilt, you feel shame, you have this sense of, “Why me?” There can be things that cause you to self-sabotage, people start asking you for money, everybody starts looking at you as the savior. Nobody explains to you how to navigate this stuff. And so for me, that grief that comes with growth is not being able to relate to the struggle anymore, and potentially feeling like there are people in your community who you no longer have this direct connection with because you just have such different lives now.
It’s hard to feel like the instructions that you were given to get out of the struggle now make you unrelatable to the people who gave you those directions. It’s like this weird cycle of, “But I’m supposed to do this, but why do I feel like the more I do this, the further away I get from the people who made me who I am?” It’s just a lot. It’s a lot of shit to navigate.
Tori Dunlap:
I will also say just, beyond the money in your bank account too, one of the ways I interpreted this quote was when you do start… What we were talking about before, investing in yourself, when you do start growing as a person, there are many people in your life who will not grow with you, who have either their own shit that they’re dealing with or who don’t have the same ambitions you do, and who might be really kind people, but are they the people that make you the best version of yourself or situations that make you the best version of yourself? And we all know that quote, that “You are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with.” Are the five people, even let’s call it 10 people, that you spend the most time with, the kind of people that inspire you, that push you to be better, that show up in their own lives so that they can show up for others?
Because that’s the thing that happens too, is when you start realizing your own worth, when you start pursuing certain things, when you start being committed to your own growth and development, there’s a lot of people who end up being left behind, and there’s a grieving process for that too. And again, it doesn’t mean you never have to talk to them again, but it might mean that you reevaluate that relationship in a different way.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah. And you also reevaluate the advice because that’s the thing too. I always say, “I do not take advice from people whose lives I don’t want to live.” And I think that’s just a guiding light where I might tell you what’s going on, but I’m not actually asking for your approval or your consent because you have no fucking clue what I’m navigating because we are just living on completely different planes. And one of those instances for me was when I decided to quit my job and I told my parents, and they’re just like, “Well, what do you mean? Just do this thing on the side and work your job, and keep your healthcare, and keep your pension.”
Tori Dunlap:
Literally the exact same conversation. They told me, “Do anything you have to do to keep your job.”
Jannese Torres:
Exactly. And I was like, “You know what? I cannot expect them to understand what I’m doing because they’re not the ones doing it. They do not have any context for this decision.” So while I can respect their opinion, it does not apply, and I’m going to have to be okay with being the loudest voice in my head.-
Tori Dunlap:
And trusting that you will figure it out. The number one thing I see with women, and I’m sure you do too, is that we have grown up in a society that constantly makes us doubt ourselves, that constantly tells us, “You’re not good enough. You’re not this enough.” It’s perfect or nothing, right? And we’ve talked about that on the show a million times, so if you are listening a lot, I’m going to sound like a broken record, but the thing about it is it’s like there’s something so powerful about a woman saying, “No, I can do it. And if I don’t figure it out, I’ll figure that out.” You are trying to find answers to questions you don’t even know yet. So why is that preventing you from doing something that you know is right for you? Because it’s a little scary, yeah, everything’s scary.
Jannese Torres:
And we also need to remember how many things have you already been through. That bird’s eye view of, “What’s all the shit I’ve overcome? What are all those hard things that I’ve done? Is this really the hardest thing I’m trying to do right here, right now?” Probably not. So I think it’s just give yourself some credit for all the shit you’ve already been able to accomplish, and realize most of the time, we can figure it out. You just need the right information, or the right resources, or a mentor, or something. But who is it? Marie Forleo, Everything Is Figureoutable.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, yeah.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah, it is. It absolutely is.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and the really actionable version of this is if you’re not already keeping a hype sheet, keep a hype sheet, which is just you writing down everything that’s gone well in your job, everything that’s gone well in your life, of everything that you were like, “Oh, I figured that out,” or, “Oh, I feel really accomplished about this.” And we have it literally in our Slack channel called Nice Things, which is when people say nice things to us about our work. And when the trolls are just trolling way too hard, I go in… And to your point before, about the stadium example for me or just the post-it notes of like, “Okay, there are real people I can impact. There are people I’ve impacted before. I can do this again,” or whatever that looks like for you. “Okay, I’m going in for that promotion at work, here are the five biggest things I’ve done in the past year where I’m deserving of that promotion or deserving of that relationship,” or whatever that looks like. So yeah, if you’re not keeping hype sheet, highly suggest it. It’s very, very helpful.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
I would love to talk about your divorce.
Jannese Torres:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
I would love to talk about divorce and finances with prenups, and all of that jazz. So statistic from your book, 35% of people blame finances for the stress they experience in relationships. And I’ve seen stats that are higher. I think the number one cause of divorce or of a partnership breaking up is money, is stress around money. So I would love to discuss the need to evaluate financial compatibility before you make steps towards marriage or any binding partnership.
Jannese Torres:
I really wish I had been thinking about this when I decided to get married because looking back at it, my partner and I could not have been on more different financial planes. Our value systems were completely different, and I think subconsciously, I knew that and that’s why we never co-mingled our finances. So even though we were together 16 years and married for nine, we had our own separate bank accounts, separate investment accounts, and I just always felt like, “I don’t want any part of this mess.” But I thought it was enough to just be able to let him handle his own chaos as if it wasn’t going to somehow impact me, until I found out that he had maxed out a credit card to pay for legal fees for some DUI incident that happened. And when I asked him, “What the fuck?” It was just like, “Oh, but I’m going to pay it back, so it’s fine. I’m going to pay you back.” So there was just a series of financial chaos in the marriage and looking back at it now…
Well, and now being in a new relationship, that was honestly one of the first things that we talked about, was money. And that’s how I found out, “Oh, this guy doesn’t have a credit score because Dave Ramsey’s fault, blah, blah, blah,” all that shit. But we’ve been so transparent about our financial values from the beginning, and gosh, what a blessing it is to just know that from the start instead of finding out what somebody else has going on a couple years in when you’re into deep, quote-unquote. Financial values is something that you really need to understand in the beginning because it’s going to make or break your relationship. And it’s funny because this chapter in the book, where I talk about love and money, was not even a part of the original book proposal.
It was a function of the fact that I did go through a divorce during the writing of this book, and opening up that part of my life to my followers, people were just like, “Holy shit, this is the first time we see a Latina talking about the importance of a prenup or talking about just the importance of having financial transparency in a relationship and financial abuse.” All the things we touch on in that chapter. And for me, it’s been really powerful to just see how, again, an example of just me being alive and sharing my story can motivate people to have these really uncomfortable but very necessary conversations, especially when we take into context the historical period in which we are living, where for the first time, women are actually even capable or legally allowed to create the level of wealth that we now have to protect. So it’s like when people are like, “Oh, well, why didn’t anybody tell me about this prenup shit?”
Well, your grandma’s not going to tell you about why you should have a prenup because grandma couldn’t have a house on her own, or grandma couldn’t have a bank account in her name, so that’s why nobody told you. But I’m here to tell you, you got to protect that shit because we worked way too hard for it to be, now we’re on the other side of things and having to pay alimony, or whatnot, to chaotic partners, because we just didn’t make the right decisions.
Tori Dunlap:
I say this every time the word prenup comes in an episode, which is if you get married, fun fact, you have signed a prenup. And it is the prenup that has been established for you by the state in which you were wed. So I live in Washington State, I believe it’s a 50-50 split, unless you decide otherwise. So one, I don’t want the government in my marriage. I’m okay. No, thanks. I’m going to make that decision for myself. And two, again, there’s all the shame about prenups or all this taboo around talking about it. You have signed one if you have been married. So I would like for you, and I hope you would like for you, to have those conversations with your partner for both of you to decide what works for you rather than just what the government decide works for you.
Jannese Torres:
I think also, there’s a lot of people who still don’t understand the concept of marital assets. I’m talking to those entrepreneurs right now. If you build a business during a marriage, guess what? That’s a marital asset that is subject to divorce. If you write a book, those book royalties are subject to divorce. There’s so much that you’re building in this process that if you do not protect it, it is going to be catastrophic financially. And it is much easier to have these conversations when you’re in love and you respect each other than when you are in divorce court, and you want to poke somebody with a pencil in the eye, okay?
Tori Dunlap:
And even if you decide, for whatever reason, “No, we don’t need a prenup,” talking about money in this way that’s transparent, it’s not so much… It is definitely the legal document, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also the act of having this much transparency with your money and realizing that, “Oh, this is something I care about,” or, “No, that isn’t something I really care about.” That’s fine, but you don’t know that unless you’ve had the conversations about it.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely. You can’t talk about it enough, in my opinion.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it was something that my partner and I… I mean, I do money for a living, it’s the expectation. You’re going to be friends with me, we’re going to talk about it. You’re going to date me, we’re going to talk about it. And it’s made our relationship so much better. And there have been moments, because I joke all the time, any man I’m going to date, I’m going to out earn.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely, same.
Tori Dunlap:
And there’s just this level of… We’ve had great conversations about masculinity of he’s a golden retriever boy, the least toxic person you could be around, but he’s often… I remember early especially, we were having conversations where he’s like, “I know I shouldn’t feel this way, but I feel like I need to take care of you and I feel guilty that I can’t spend as much money.” And I’m like, “No, we’re not in an equal partnership when it comes to money, we’re in an equitable partnership. If you and I live in an apartment together someday or buy a house, I’m not going to ask you to split rent with me 50-50, that doesn’t make any sense. We’re going to split it based on what I make versus what you make.” And so even having those kind of conversations about what matters to you, what your values are, how you manage money, how the other person does, I think helps mitigate even the fact that you might need the prenup someday because you’ve already talked about it.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah. And that’s why I put scripts in a lot of different parts of the book because just having a place to initiate a conversation or just some context for it, I think is very helpful. A lot of the people who find out about the whole prenup thing, they’re just like, “Well, how did you even have that conversation? Because that shit sounds like it would be very awkward.” And for me, I deferred the responsibility to my CFP as to why I am having the conversation. So I spoke to a CFP before I quit my job, she told me, “X, Y, Z. Do this with your money, and also get a postnup.” And so I brought it up to my ex-husband, and I was like, “Hey, I’m quitting my job. I’m taking on this financial risk, I want you to be sheltered and insulated from it, in case it does go wrong. And so this postnuptial agreement is going to be a way to protect you from that risk that I’m taking.”
And it was a very easy conversation to have when you have that context versus just like, “Oh, well, why are you talking about this? You just want to get divorced, so you plan to take all my money.” So it’s just… Depending on who you’re with, you’re going to have to bring it up in whatever context makes sense. But if somebody is really resistant to it, that shit’s a red flag to me, and there’s probably other red flags that you’ve been ignoring that you should probably start to pay attention to.
Tori Dunlap:
If they’re not going to be willing to talk to you about one uncomfortable topic that they understand is important to a relationship, they’re probably not going to talk to you about other things. If you feel like you can’t bring up money, maybe you can’t bring up sex or pleasure in your relationship, maybe you can’t bring up your values, maybe you can’t bring up, “Do we want children or not?” I think that talking about money, because it is the hardest thing to talk about statistically, and we know just from talking with people, if you can’t bring up money, it’s going to be a hard road to bring up anything else uncomfortable too.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
I love this concept in your book of being financially unfuckable with, and I have the same perspective. I’ve mentioned many times that there is something so powerful about having your own money because you don’t have to deal with shit anymore. Somebody disrespects you, you’re out on a date. Cool, I put my card down and I don’t have to worry about him buying because the date’s over. I’m good. I don’t want to be in this relationship anymore, I can afford my own apartment. I don’t like this job anymore, I can leave. It’s something so powerful. Even something like, “Oh, I had maybe one too many drinks, or it’s really dark outside and I could take the train home, but no, I’m going to be safe and I’m going to be able to take an Uber.” Something about that is so powerful. So break down what it means to be financially unfuckable with.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah, I mean, it’s exactly what you talk about. It’s the sense of just knowing that you’ve got your own back financially. So you do have the ability to make decisions that are not influenced by money. You’re not forced to stay in that relationship, you’re not forced to live in that apartment that is roach infested and loud fucking obnoxious neighbors. You just have options. And when you know that you have your own back, I feel like as a person, it just helps you carry yourself with this sense of confidence.
Tori Dunlap:
Everything in your life changes.
Jannese Torres:
You just can’t fuck with me. I don’t even have the energy to be stressed about this shit because I know at the end of the day, this is easily resolvable with a couple dollars and some time invested to just make that change. So I think more of us need to see money as that, as a tool to have options in life. Why we’re still preaching this narrative of, “Money doesn’t buy happiness.” Okay, fine. It might not be happiness, but I know I’m happy when I’m not stuck in a toxic fucking relationship. I know I’m happy when I don’t have to tolerate a boss who keeps giving me the run around about getting a promotion, even though I’m doing three people’s fucking jobs. I know I’m happy when if my car breaks down, I can walk into a dealership, sign a lease or buy a car, and not have to worry about where the hell that down payment is going to come from. That makes me fucking happy. So we can agree to disagree, but at the end of the day, we aren’t actually pursuing money.
The folks who talk about the importance of building wealth, we’re not actually pursuing money, the number in the bank account, we’re pursuing what money gives us-
Tori Dunlap:
Choices, options.
Jannese Torres:
… which is the freedom to make fucking choices that are aligned with the lives that we want to live.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I say in my book, I don’t want a stack of government paper because that’s what money is. That doesn’t get me anything, it’s a stack of paper. I want what money can buy me. And to your point about money can’t buy you happiness, another section of my book where I literally debunked that, where I’m like, “Yes, in theory, if you’re going out trying to buy a Ferrari, and thinking my life will be better and you’re using material things to provide you happiness, of course, that’s not going to work.” But money can buy you safety, and stability, and ease, and pleasure, and I would argue that’s happiness, so…
Jannese Torres:
Hells to the yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me I can’t buy happiness.
Jannese Torres:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
One of the things with that financially unfuckable with thing as well is I love this, you know how to negotiate, pay raises, client contracts, bills, and interest rates like your fucking business because it is. And I just wanted to discuss that for a second. I love this idea of it is your business because you’re running a business, which is how much you’re spending on things and how much money you’re bringing in. So maybe just talk to me about that, of this reframe of, “No, every dollar is a dollar for your business, which is you.”
Jannese Torres:
Well, it’s funny because when I think about the people who I saw doing this in my life, especially growing up as a kid, it was always the men. My father was an excellent negotiator. He never took face value as the price for something, he was always just like, “There’s room here to haggle.” And I don’t know why, but I just felt like that’s just something that men do, and it’s funny because my partner is absolutely like that person too. He’s like, “We’ll not pay full price for anything.” But absolutely. I think too many people have this idea where you just got to accept what you’re given. And one of the first examples I’ve had of that, that was not the case, was when I negotiated my first six figure salary. They came in at 95, and I had this idea in my head like, “Nah, I want 100.” And I was scared shitless, but I asked for it and I got it, and there was no resistance. And it was just like a light bulb, like, “Holy shit, I can actually get what I want, but I have to ask for it.”
And so I always go back to this quote that my father has said since I was a kid, which is “The squeaky wheel gets the oil.” And it’s like you got to make some fucking noise if you want people to pay attention to you. And when we’re talking about advocating for your money, you got to get a little out sometimes so somebody pays attention.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. Squeaky wheel gets the grease was a common phrase in my family as well, and my mom said it too about opportunities. I’ve told this story before, but I wanted to be on The Today Show really badly, and I just pitched and pitched and pitched, and they would not take me. And I got creative and started posting on TikTok, and I politely bully people until they get me what I want. And a no is just not now, it doesn’t mean no forever.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
There’s a million rejections you get on a daily basis, but you just got to keep going.
Jannese Torres:
And I think that mindset of just knowing that it’s not no, it’s not right now, is so powerful. I always go back to this quote whenever I’m feeling like this pressure to just achieve something now, which is what is meant for me will wait for me until I’m ready to receive it. And so I think that helps me realize I don’t actually have to do all of this shit at once, I don’t actually have to check off all of these things right here, right now, but I know that if I want it, it’s out there and it’s going to come when I have the mental emotional capacity to accept that too. Because when we think about pursuing wealth, it also requires a shift in your mindset. And if you are given access to excessive amounts of wealth that your mindset has not caught up to being able to manage properly, it’s a fucking waste of time. You’re not actually equipped to be a good steward of them, and it’s your job to now invest some more time and energy so that when that opportunity does come for you, you’re ready and able.
Tori Dunlap:
What is one feeling you want for every single woman, but especially every single Latina?
Jannese Torres:
The idea that they’re limitless in their potential. And one of the things I talk about in the book is I want it to be very normal to be the millionaire next door and be a woman of color. Because so often, we have examples in our community of what it means to be successful. It’s the singer, it’s the dancer, it’s the actress, it’s the movie star, blah, blah, blah. And I just want regular schmegular girlies with seven figures net worth to be my neighbor whose name happens to be Maria Gonzalez. I want us to really believe that we have the potential to be the change that we wish to see. And I hope that this book empowers whoever reads it to understand that where you start is not where you have to finish.
Tori Dunlap:
And that there’s something so incredible when you are financially whole and financially stable, you get to change the system for everybody else. You get to work to change the system that fucks everybody over because your cup is full, you’re stable, you’re content. You’re not worried about where’s the next check coming from? How am I going to pay my rent this month? Where am I groceries? When you are content and stable, and when you’ve worked to that financial stability, you get to change the system for everybody else.
Jannese Torres:
Absolutely. I think too, it’s how powerful money can be to reshape the communities that we’re from. A lot of folks from black and brown communities might be seeing things like gentrification happening, and you can actually be an active role player in curbing that, in stopping that, by having enough wealth to reinvest in your neighborhoods. To be the landlord of that building, instead of some fucking guy who lives 3000 miles away, who is just charging predatory prices. You can be the one that says, “I’m going to buy this apartment building and I’m going to give people affordable housing. And I’m from this hood, I understand what people need here.” There’s so much power that we have to influence the world that we live in. And like it or not, in this capitalist society, money is that power. And so if we want to actually be able to change things, we have to become the ones with the power.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for being here. I am so excited for your book. As of this recording, it is already out, tell people where they can go get a copy.
Jannese Torres:
Yes. You can get the physical copy, as well as the audiobook, at financiallylitbook.com, and you can also find out about my upcoming book tour. I would love to see you in your city, give you a hug, and remind you that you too can be financially lit.
Tori Dunlap:
I love it. Thank you, thank you for your work. I love it, I always love talking to you.
Jannese Torres:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
Thanks so much to Jannese for joining us, you can get her book, Financially Lit, wherever you get books, and you can listen to your Yo Quiero Dinero wherever you’re listening right now. So thanks for being here. As always, we appreciate you. Hope you have a kick ass week. Bye.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields. Associate Producer Tamisha Grant, research by Ariel Johnson. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf.
Marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda Leffew, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Taylor Chou, Kailyn Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Kurronen, Daryl Ann Ingram and Jenell Riesner. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K team and community for supporting this show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over one million women negotiate salary, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of almost 250,000 on Instagram and more than 1.6 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
