If you’d ever wondered what it’s like to attend the Democratic National Convention, then pull up a chair! In this episode, Tori is taking you behind the scenes of the DNC and sharing what it was like to be an “influencer” at the event. Tune in to hear details on everything from the hustle and bustle, to the historical and emotional significance of the convention — exploring everything from the packed schedule to the spontaneous interviews and the ones that required meticulous preparation. She also addresses common misconceptions about the roles of influencers versus traditional journalists, highlighting the critical intersection of politics and financial activism, particularly for women. Whether you’re simply curious about what goes on during the convention, or you want to stay informed and learn ways to get involved, this episode is a must-listen.
Notable Quotes
“I was paid in good vibes, baby. No, I was not compensated. We actually paid money to go. We paid money. To buy a flight, buy a hotel…buy a flight, buy a hotel for my assistant Kailyn. We paid money to be there. And no, the DNC is not like giving you cash and being like, keep the change.”
“I view politics as a bus. It is the bus that gets you closest to your destination. It is not an Uber. It does not drop you off right outside your house. If you want an Uber, you run for office. Like, if you don’t like what’s going on, You make a change, you do something about it. And if you’re not willing to do that, you got to get on the bus. You got to get on the bus closest to your destination.”
“Yes, it was about electing Kamala Harris to become president, but it was really about policy. It was really about policy up and down the ticket and being able to support people’s rights, people’s rights to their own bodies, people’s right to have guns, but in a very responsible way, where you, again, weren’t nervous about sending your kid to school, or I should say maybe less nervous…about climate change, about the economy, and, making sure that people have the resources they need to be able to not only live, but thrive.”
“I don’t think it would have been a smart move to have Beyonce perform because she would have upstaged the whole fucking thing. This is an historic moment. The focus should be on her [Kamala] speech. It should be on the four days of discussion of policy, discussion of everything that happened.”
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Transcript:
Kristen Fields:
I’ve never done this from this side.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, welcome. Hello.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, I’ve done producer interviews where I know I’m not being recorded, so I am allowed to, I don’t know, be a little more loquacious I guess, and I’m like, “Oh, I got to stick to my script.”
Tori Dunlap:
I popped on and she is in full makeup and glam and looks absolutely beautiful and I am not. I am in my Disneyland Gremlin sweatshirt with Covid-
Kristen Fields:
Tell the people why. Yeah, exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. In addition to inspiration from the DNC, I contracted Covid, which apparently is a common thing for a lot of people. I don’t want to dwell on it too long because it’s not great, but it was kind of a super-spreader event. Think about it, you get 20,000 people in a room for four days, and then there’s some people that were there only one day. There’s some people there that are there all four. So you got a lot of people in a space together. So it’s not entirely surprising, but this is why we get vaccinated, everybody. So I’m going to be taking intermittent breaks to blow my nose.
Kristen Fields:
We’ll cut those, I promise.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, thanks.
Kristen Fields:
We want to talk about the DNC. That’s why I brought you here today. That’s why I’ve gathered you here today to talk about the DNC. And you had this idea, you were like, “I would love if somebody else interviewed me so that we could kind of stay on a through line and talk about it.”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it’s a lot easier than me just going on for 55 minutes about everything that happened.
Kristen Fields:
Which you could, to be fair. We had a text thread going. It was like DNC, HFK, and it was with our PR company and I think also with the PR company that was helping out with the DNC. And it was crazy. I would walk away from my phone for five minutes and come back and there’d be like 30 text messages and 10 videos and three photos, and it was absolutely bonkers.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I think first of all, shout out to you. Shout out to two of our team members, Amanda and Kailyn. Kailyn was with me. I could not have done that without you all. It was the most… I’ve gotten home and I went to a going away party for a friend, didn’t I have Covid yet, and there were so many people, because I had a Kamala shirt on and so many people were like, “Were you just there?” And I was like, “Yeah. I was there all four days.” And they were like, “Oh my God, I’m crying at home. How was it in person?” And every single response I gave back was just like, “It was incredible. It was also so overwhelming.”
It was so crazy. It was… The energy in the arena… We’ll talk about it, I’m sure, but was unreal. If you felt any tinge of just hype or hope or any sort of emotion while you’re watching it on TV, multiply it by 10. That’s how it felt in there. And it also… I’ve talked to multiple people because this was my first time. I was like, “Is this normal? Is this kind of energy what it was before?” And they’re like, “Not since 2008. Not since 2008 has it felt this good.”
Kristen Fields:
Wow.
Tori Dunlap:
And every single day our schedule changed. So we are a very organized team. I really am proud of that, is that we know what’s going on. We try to get our shit together. And every single day it was something like, “Oh, this person canceled, but this person’s available in three minutes.” So there was one in particular, and we’ll splice these interviews throughout probably this episode, and we’ll share them in the coming weeks. But Thursday they have a blue carpet. Of course, it’s not a red carpet, it’s a blue carpet, and you can interview people and it’s literally just like somebody’s asking you, “Hey, do you want to interview the governor of Hawaii?” And you’re just like, “Okay.” And then two minutes later, the governor of Hawaii is standing in front of you.
So I am really, really thankful, one to know enough about politics to hold my own, and I’m really proud of myself for that. But also you all, there were panic texts sometimes, especially to Amanda being like, “Hey, so we’ve got this person and their focus is on gun rights. Can you send three questions over really quick?” It was just, again, so electric, so incredible. But also everything was changing constantly. There were so many people coming in and out and it was very overwhelming in the best way possible.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah. Also shout out to Sarah, who’s our researcher.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes, thank you. Thank you.
Kristen Fields:
Who I know jumped in on a ton of one sheets for that because we didn’t know who we were going to talk to. That was the whole big thing is that we had no idea who you were going to be able to talk to. So at one point they were like, you might get this person, but you could get this person. But also, as you were saying, if this person is available in five minutes, they’re like, “You want to chat?” So we had to develop a bunch of one sheets just to make sure that we had everybody covered. I did not envy your position there at all because those text messages were stressful enough.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and then you’re trying to figure out A, ask them a question that is going to be valuable to you all listening, but B, hopefully a question that maybe they haven’t been asked before and I think that’s just an impossible task. While also understanding that, and this is very candid, not that I would ask a gotcha question, but I’ve been invited here. This is not my time to be like, “Hey, here’s the 12 different issues that I see controversy about. Tell me about that.” So that’s the fine line is I’m trying to get good answers to good questions while also hoping I get an invite in the future.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah. Oh, true. I did want to ask one question because we got a lot of comments because obviously you posted that you were going to be at the DNC on socials, which had a very strong response-
Tori Dunlap:
From Trump people, conservatives. A shocking amount of conservatives follow us, and I don’t understand.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah. Well, and also it’s one of those things where I think some of this is genuinely our audience that maybe just doesn’t know, but I also think that those posts get circulated somehow to the people who like to comment negatively because I’m like wild.
Tori Dunlap:
But we have also lost about 10,000 followers in a week.
Kristen Fields:
What?
Tori Dunlap:
So people who are following us, there was a lot of comments that were like, “You are a personal finance person. If you were really a smart multimillionaire, you would not be voting for the Democrats or the liberals.” And I find it so interesting. So there are, I think a huge subset of our audience that maybe has never listened to this show, doesn’t actually… They just maybe followed a post where I talked about something just straight personal finance. So no, because Kristin, there’s definitely the ones that are like, “Oh, I saw the DNC tags. I’m going to pile on. She tagged the DNC in her post. I’m going to pile on. I’ve never seen this woman before.” And then there’s some who actually follow us, which I kind of find shocking. But please ask your question, so I know where we’re going.
Kristen Fields:
Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, my question was a lot of people want to know Tori, how much were you paid to be there? How much did they pay you?
Tori Dunlap:
I was paid in good vibes, baby. No, I was not compensated. We actually paid money to go. We paid money to buy a flight, buy a hotel, buy a flight, buy a hotel for my assistant Kailyn. No, we paid money to be there. And no, the DNC is not giving you cash and being like, “Keep the change.” No, we’re not paid to be there.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, I think there’s that misconception a lot of people have about that in general because I don’t think most journalists were paid to be there either, what we call traditional media journalists, right?
Tori Dunlap:
No, and there’s a lot of things you actually don’t get paid to do that people think, I don’t get paid to be on Good Morning America. Most people actually pay money to be on Good Morning America. Most people are shelling out 50,000, $100,000 plus to get on those bigger media outlets. People are paying to go to the DNC for various reasons. For me, I was invited, but then I was expected to pay my own way. The New York Times, no, I don’t think the DNC is paying the New York Times to go.
Kristen Fields:
Not with the way they’ve been writing about them, that’s for sure.
Tori Dunlap:
No, no. They’re like, “Hmm-“
Kristen Fields:
Definitely not. So yeah, I just think that that is the classic… It was very similar actually to the first night. So the first night… Well, let me break it down. So when you are there, and again, I knew none of this a week ago. When you’re there, there’s a convention hall, and that is where caucuses are happening. So you’ll have the LGBTQ Caucus, you’ll have the Women’s Caucus, you’ll have a caucus on gun rights. And I actually never stepped foot in there. I had every intention to go, it was just too crazy. So that was in McCormick Place in Chicago. And that can start in the morning and then go all the way up to the big speeches.
The big speeches happen. They happen in the United Center, which is where the Bulls play. It’s an arena. And that starts at like 5:30 PM so 5:30 PM you have speeches. They always start with the national anthem and a prayer. And the prayer is said from a priest or a rabbi or someone who… It’s a non-denominational kind of prayer. And then you have speeches by, let’s say folks lower on the hit list, maybe people you might not have heard of or representatives that are at the state or local level. And then you slowly make your way to an AOC, a Senator Elizabeth Warren. And that’s probably at eight o’clock PM, 8:30. And then your big, big, big speeches, your Obama’s, your ex-presidents. Your Obama’s, your Bidens, your Clintons, your Kamala’s, that’s like a 9:00, 9:30, 10:00.
So what’s happening is you have the caucuses and other events happening in McCormick Place, and then you have the big ones in United Center. So the first day I went, I got on the bus, there were shuttle buses to take you to the United Center from your hotel. I got on the bus at 5:00. I didn’t get in the door until 7:15 because all the buses were lined up. It was a combination, I think of protesters, but also just first day lack of organization. So I didn’t get through the door until 7:15. Fox News was running a story that said, “No one’s at the DNC. Look at all of these empty seats, no one’s here.” And yeah, no one was here because we were all on fucking buses.
So I feel like it’s a very similar through line between no one’s at the DNC, this is really sad. And how much are they paying you? It’s two sides of the same coin in terms of a question, which is like how much did they beg you to come? And also no one’s here. And by the way, because of his obsession with crowd sizes, I want to put it on the record that every single other night… The night Kamala accepted the nomination, Thursday night, literally by half an hour into the programming. So six o’clock PM, there was not a seat in the entire arena available. My assistant was lucky enough to give credentials that night. She could not get in. They turned people away at the door because they were already at capacity. So to go back to your original question, I was not compensated to be there. And also it’s a very similar through line of like, “Oh, this is really sad. So how much were you paid? Those crowd sizes aren’t big,” et cetera.
Yeah. And going off that, something that kind has started happening on the internet this week is this beef between… Because this is the first time creators were invited and influencers were invited in general, and there were a lot of them there. I can think of four-
Tori Dunlap:
200.
Kristen Fields:
Oh my gosh. I was going to say, I can think of four or five that I follow personally off the top of my head, but I know there has to be so many more. 200? That is… Oh, my gosh. But there seems to be sort of this conversation happening about where the traditional media is a little pissed off about that. But at the same time… Well, a statistic that I had heard recently is most… Our podcast Financial Feminist gets more listens per week than most CNN programming.
So when you think about that in the scope of media… Don’t get me wrong, there’s some CNN programs that get like 700,000 a week, but 700,000 a week is not that crazy for what you think about because you think, “Oh, millions and millions of people are watching traditional news.” And I think that that’s so interesting when you think about that with them bringing in creators because people are listening to people like you to people like Nadia, to people like Blair, to people like V. They’re listening to these creators because they’re going to them for a reason. Do you have any kind of insight onto what you think the DNC was hoping for with that? And any other thoughts you have on being an “influencer” that just got invited to the DNC?
Tori Dunlap:
I will give my polite response, and then I’ll give my salty response. My polite response, traditional journalists who work at CNN, the New York Times, BBC, they do a different job than we do. They are supposed to remain unbiased, in theory. They are journalists reporting news. That is a different job than what I do or what any creator does. Now, there are some creators who are invited who do… Politics is their niche. And I would argue that’s one of our niches, but that’s not our primary niche. So there are people who might come who try to remain unbiased, but I think really they invited creators because they wanted an opinion. They wanted people to take their information and their experience to their own audiences. And I think the focus was really to get young people excited about politics and not only excited, but to actually vote to actually get involved.
The kind of through line that I had been saying, because I was lucky enough to get interviewed by some of these. I was interviewed by the Independent and the Fox satellite in Chicago and a couple of other places. So the whole point of the DNC or the RNC is you have delegates saying, “Yes, this is our candidate.” This many delegates support this candidate for president. So when you look out on the arena, you have every state, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, all the way to Wyoming. And the delegates from each state stand up and say, “This many delegates support Donald Trump for president,” or “This many delegates support Kamala Harris for President.” I, in a way was acting as a delegate for our audience. I am there in a way to be the person representing 5 million women who listen to this show, who follow us on Instagram, who engage with the sort of issues that we talk about.
I had to look this up because I was really curious. How many states have 5 million or less citizens in them? Half. 25 states, half of the United States have 5 million or more and half have 5 million or less. So when you think of it that way, I am representing a state right smack in the middle in terms of population, and it is more populated than a handful of swing states, by the way. So I think once I thought of it that way, I think it makes perfect sense why I’m there or why somebody is there. My salty response is that, again, we don’t do the same job. This is a common thing that you hear the word influencer and you’re like, “It’s not a real job.” And I’m like, “I’m not an influencer. I am also an entrepreneur and a podcast host and a New York Times bestselling author and all of these other things.”
And almost every single person who was also there is one of those things too. If you are the person who is saying, “I couldn’t get credentials because an influencer took mine.” First of all, shut up. It’s not true. And second of all, this is the future of politics. I’m sorry. I know it’s kind of uncomfortable that most of Gen Z gets their news from TikTok, but that’s where we’re at. Yeah, that’s where we’re at. And also since social media started, it has been a place where you can campaign, where you can come together to protest, to start to have conversations about issues that are important to you. And for too long, traditional media has largely overlooked, especially marginalized groups. I was thrilled to be one of the… I shouldn’t say few white creators, but we were in the minority. White creators were in the minority.
It was a ton of Black and brown creators, and that couldn’t have been an accident. And probably you average listener have not seen this, but because I am a creator, I’ve seen it, the press is mad, and I’m like, “I’m sorry. Go be mad somewhere else. We’re not in competition. We’re not doing the same job. I’m not taking your credentials.” And also there was this big story that came out in Politico that we’re getting this VIP treatment. We’re eating filet mignon and we’re like… No, I was on a yacht for one day, but that yacht looked more like a ferry. And I was very lucky to be there, and I think I was treated very well, but my dinner most nights was potato chips and french onion dip. That was my dinner most nights. And we didn’t get, I don’t think any special access that the press didn’t get. So yeah, this is a very niche thing too. It’s just our problem.
Kristen Fields:
But to go back to the beginning of the conversation, we talked about how much research went into you going in general. We didn’t just show up and start asking questions, shooting from the hip. We did our due diligence on researching who was going to be there. We know these topics. You’re someone who is obviously politically informed, but also socially informed about the issues that you care about. It’s sort of a misnomer is maybe the wrong word, but to say that influencers aren’t also somehow educated and working from a space of wanting to bring truthfulness in. I think that’s sort of the insinuation is you’re not going to ask the right questions or come from a place of non-bias.
But also I think that it’s pretty obvious that you’re biased by the title of the show and what we talk about. And that’s fine because I think as long as there’s transparency in that bias. Which again, we talk about it all the time, even when you talk to guests who I would say are more maybe moderate or further to the center, you even will say, “Hey, this is who I am. I’m going to be very left, and that’s where I’m going to come from when I’m asking you these questions.”
Tori Dunlap:
It’s not the same. I think that’s my biggest thing, what a reporter does and what a content creator does is not the same. And I truly saw myself as a delegate for our community of let me bring the issues that are important. Let me talk both as someone who is very politically active and has my own questions, but also what is my audience going to want to know about? I am not a mother, but I was asking about the fears a lot of you have around child safety around guns.
Kristen Fields:
I love that.
Tori Dunlap:
That was a question and a very specific example of obviously I care about kids regardless of whether I have children or not, but I don’t have the same fears that a lot of mothers do because I’m not sending my children to school wondering if they’re going to come back. But I know that so many mothers on our team, our own HFK team have that fear. I know that so many people listening are mothers who have that fear or parents who have that fear. So that was one in particular where I was like, “I need to ask this question that has nothing to do with my own life, but everything to do with our community’s lives.” So it was just not the same. And I think that in addition, it’s a little ageist. It’s a little ageist. You have a lot of reporters who are, let’s be generous, maybe over 40, probably over 50, who are like, “What are these Gen Z shenanigans?” A group of creators that I ended up befriending are called A Twink and a Redhead. Do you follow them Kristin?
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, I do. Oh my gosh.
Tori Dunlap:
So they were there and their whole thing… They don’t do political content, but it was hysterical. And I am even going to admit I’m 30, I was doing the like, “Oh my gosh, this is kind of ridiculous.” And at the same time, it’s incredible. They were interviewed live on CNN primetime, and they asked basically, “Why are you here?” And Grant from A Twink and a Redhead said, “To look hot, make cute videos and get young people out to vote.”
Kristen Fields:
I mean, hell yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Hell yeah. And I also look at it and I’m like, “Oh, these are the same…” This is the kind of content that pisses the reporters off and like, okay, the girls who get it, get it. And the girls that don’t, don’t. Don’t be salty about it. I’m sorry I didn’t take your credentials. No one took your credentials. We do two different jobs. I didn’t get filet mignon. Everybody can show out.
Kristen Fields:
So fascinating. Yeah, man, I feel like we could talk about that for a long time. Not to say that we don’t love journalists and think that journalism is very important. We’ll add that.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, Astead Herndon, come on the show. Political reporter of the New York Times, he runs The Run-Up. I was literally on Astead watch the entire time I was there because I’m a massive fan. No, this is in no way disrespect to reporters, but if you’re going to come for us, sorry, I’m going to be a little salty back at you. We’re not in competition. A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle. We’re here for different purposes. It’s not like the polit… Reporters are not like, “What is the catering company doing here? They’re taking my credential.” We’re doing two different jobs. We’re doing two different jobs.
Kristen Fields:
Love it. Kind of jumping off of talking about gun violence, what were some of the other things that you learned at the DNC that you feel are going to be very impactful for our audience or that our audience just wants to know moving forward?
Tori Dunlap:
I have so many things everybody, we can put a cry count down below. This is number one, here’s the deal. If you are completely or even partially disillusioned with politics, I feel you so deeply. I feel you so deeply. If you don’t feel like you have a political party that represents you, if you don’t feel like you have representatives that maybe are actually in this because they’re trying to serve people and not just there to get as much power as possible, I feel you so deeply. I’m not going to lie to you, I walked into this convention feeling more that way than inspired, thrilled, hopeful, excited to be there, and I walked out with the biggest fire in my belly ready to elect Kamala Harris and Democrats up and down the ticket.
Now, do I like and support every single policy? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I said this on Instagram, and I’m only going to say it once here because I don’t feel like I need to talk about it more than that. I view politics as a bus. It is the bus that gets you closest to your destination. It is not an Uber. It does not drop you off right outside your house. If you want an Uber, you run for office. If you don’t like what’s going on, you make a change. You do something about it. And if you’re not willing to do that, you got to get on the bus. You got to get on the bus closest to your destination.
What I was so overwhelmed by in the most positive way, I got to meet these people one-on-one, and sometimes for 15 minutes, sometimes for two seconds, there’s going to be people who are just in this for as much power as possible. I don’t know if I met any of those people. These are actually kind people just trying to do their best to support policies and legislation that helps you, that helps me, that helps anybody listening. And we had multiple interviews with folks, and we’ll run them in a second, that talks about the importance of voting, but specifically how your vote can make a difference between whether somebody gets elected or not. If you are thinking, “I don’t have a voice, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if I vote, I’m disillusioned. This fucking sucks.” I feel you so hard. And also this is what we’ve got right now. And your not participation could mean the difference between whether somebody gets elected or not or whether a policy goes through or not.
And I really just came back to the four days I was there. I was there the whole time. Yes, it was about electing Kamala Harris to become president, but it was really about policy. It was really about policy up and down the ticket and being able to support people’s rights, people’s rights to their own bodies, people’s right to have guns, but in a very responsible way where you again, weren’t nervous about sending your kid to school, or I should say maybe less nervous. About climate change, about the economy and making sure that people have the resources they need to be able to not only live but thrive. Again, do I like and support everything the Democrats are doing? No, but they’re the bus that is way more aligned with where I’m trying to go than the other bus. I just felt so deeply moved and energized to just get this done in the last 75 days up to the election and beyond.
Kristen Fields:
You talked to Governor Beshear out of Kentucky and you had a really great conversation with him and also Representative Kelly Cassidy in Illinois who both talked about just how important the singular vote is, especially when you’re feeling a little disenfranchised.
Tori Dunlap:
I asked that question to a lot of people I talked to because one, I was feeling a little bit myself, and I also know that a lot of people feel that way, especially a lot of people in our community. It’s very hard sometimes to feel like my representative actually represents me or the person who’s supposed to be advocating for me actually does. But I look these people in the eye, I had very often, candid conversations with them, and they’re, I think for the most part, really, really excited to actually do this work. And let’s just take a pause. It is very, very difficult to decide I’m going to run for office, especially beyond your local community, beyond a board seat or something like that. You go through the wringer. Personally, professionally, you are getting your entire life parsed through. You’re not doing this unless you really, really want to. You’re not going through that unless you really, really, really feel called to. And I can see that, especially with the folks I talked to. They’re called to do this work in a really cool way.
Kristen Fields:
I love that. And I kind of got the sneak preview of all of the interviews you did, and I loved getting to watch them. Governor Beshear, that one was big for me just because being a woman in a southern state where I do often feel like my vote is disenfranchised, and part of that is insane gerrymandering that has happened in Nashville. Look it up if you don’t know. It’s wild. And just everything Nashville has gone through in the last year, the Tennessee three. Who I know didn’t get to speak, which I was a little sad about, but I understand, things had to get bumped around.
But feeling sometimes like you’re screaming into the void when you are a blue dot in a red state. But also I’ve seen even in my own community how important it has been to especially vote down ballot and to make sure that I’m voting in every single tiny little election because it really does make such a huge difference when you just show up and vote. And I know that that’s hard when people are feeling frustrated sometimes by the top of the ticket, but there’s so much more. The top of the ticket is truly exactly what it is, which is it’s just the top.
Tori Dunlap:
And the other really cool thing, cry count number two is that every time I told a representative… Because you have to do a quick intro of who I am, who I represent. I’m not kidding, every single one said some version of hell yes. Like, wow, we really need that. We really need women who have money, who can make choices about what their futures look like, who can be the fullest versions of themselves. And that was so validating for the work that we do because our team, you, me, our entire HFK team, we work really, really hard because we believe in this thing so deeply. And we don’t just believe in it because financial literacy is important, we believe in it because we see the impact of a stable content well-moneyed woman. We see the power in that.
And it was so incredible to see that every rep was immediately they knew I didn’t have to explain why this work was important. I didn’t have to tell them. I didn’t have to convince them, they were right with me. And I actually had so many people, I got stopped dozens of times at the DNC from attendees who told me they listened to this show, that they signed up for high yield savings accounts. They loved the work that we were doing. And we actually had a representative from Minnesota and she spoke… And I’m trying to remember her name. Again, it was such a whirlwind. She full on stopped me… She spoke at the national… On the big stage, stopped me, said, “You fucking changed my financial life.” And it was so moving.
So every time you as an individual feel like, “I can’t pursue money. It’s wrong. I can’t negotiate my salary because somebody’s going to call me greedy. Somebody’s going to call me ungrateful. I can’t pay off this debt, it’s too much. It’s too bigger than me.” It’s the same thing, it feels the same way. “I can’t vote because no one cares. I can’t call anybody because somebody’s going to hang up the phone when I phone bank, somebody’s going to slam the door in my face.” Yeah, maybe, probably. And also you’re going to have incredible conversations. And also one vote’s going to make the difference. You paying off your student debt is bigger than you. It’s so that you’re no longer a statistic. You investing is not just about you protecting your own retirement, but it’s making sure that you don’t have to continue a cycle of generational poverty.
It’s so tied together and it’s why we’ve been doing this work since jump. Everybody who’s like, “She’s political now.” I’m sorry, I’ve been political the whole time. Don’t give me that. If you listen to an episode of this show, a second of this show you know. So that was the other thing for me that was just so validating for me personally, but also validating of this work. I didn’t have to explain it. I didn’t have to convince anybody. They were on board with me. They knew why this work was important, because when women have money, nothing bad happens.
Kristen Fields:
Period. End the show right there. No, I have more questions. So good though. We always love a little Tori talk, like a little pep talk right in the middle of any episode. You got to have them.
Tori Dunlap:
I just without me just fully losing it-
Kristen Fields:
[inaudible 00:31:39] ramp you again-
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s just… Yeah, I know it in my own life. I know it so deeply. I know it when I talk to you all… Think about you making any sort of difference in politics. You need money, whether you want to run, whether you want to back a candidate, whether you want to just vote. You need enough money to get to the polls. You need a stable car to get you there. You need to be able to take off work sometimes because you’re in a gerrymandered area where they’re going to make you stand in line for seven hours. That’s fucked. And hopefully they’re going to change it at some point, but that’s what we’re working with right now. You need money. I need you to have enough money so you’re stable and content and can just fucking live the life that you want because that’s your biggest form of protest. Okay, I know we got to move on, but…
Kristen Fields:
What was your cry count at the DNC though? That’s what I want to know-
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, 12 a day. 12 a day. I think almost every single interview… And especially we’ll see the… We did some that were just audio. We did some that were video and audio and the video you can really see. We spoke to the CEO of Planned Parenthood, Alexis McGill Johnson, and I barely got through that. I also was… It was day two or three, I don’t even remember. I ran into the former prime minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern.
Kristen Fields:
Oh, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
And I didn’t even think. I saw her literally from probably a couple feet away. I just blacked out, didn’t think, and I just went up to her and I said, “I’m so sorry. Thank you for your work. We teach women to stand in the fullest versions of themselves and their power, and you lead by example every day.” And then her cute Kiwi accent, she was like, “Oh, thank you so much.” That was a terrible Kiwi accent, but you get it. And my friend Emily, who was a previous guest on the show, Emily Tisch Sussman was there with me because I had just run into her a couple minutes before. And she’s like, “Oh, let’s get a photo.” And I’m like, thank God she did, because I was not going to ask her. I just kind of blacked out. We got a photo, we shook hands. It was very sweet. She went on her way.
I am doubled over in the corner. I’m just like, “Oh my God.” And I have to keep it together because I have another interview. And there was so many times that I just wanted to fully lose it. The time I did fully lose it though, and I’m sure we’ll post a video. I was lucky enough to be on the podium on the final night, so I was literally… If you looked out, if you were watching it at home on TV, you had obviously the main podium where people were speaking, and then you had almost these amphitheater kind of stairs up the top where you could see people on computers. And if you looked, I was on the left side at the top.
They were rotating people. So I was there for The Chicks singing the national anthem up until Pink sung, and I did not know she was singing with her daughter. I did not know it was her daughter at the time. First of all, I grew up on The Chicks. That was my music. I would sing with my mom in the car to The Chicks. Second of all, they’re singing the national anthem. I’m not going to lie. I haven’t loved the national anthem, especially lately. I usually at a baseball game or whatever I have, maybe not even my hand over my heart. I’m not going to lie. I’m just like, “Cops are killing Black folks and no one can pay their bills. This is fucking stupid. Don’t love that we have to sing the national anthem.”
I am looking out over an entire arena of people. I’m not kidding there is not a seat empty. I cannot see a seat in the house. Every seat is full. It is every color of the rainbow. There are Black people, there are brown people, there are white people, there are queer folks, there are disabled people. There are every single kind of person that the country represents is in that arena. I am having a moment of the most intense patriotism I think I’ve ever felt in my entire life. And at the same time going, “How fucking amazing is my life? How grateful am I that I get to stand here and watch history, represent you all, which is the honor of my life, and then I get to represent every single woman who didn’t have the opportunities I have.” Both in my lineage, women who did not get to choose what kind of life they were going to have.
I think about my Nana, my grandma, who’s still alive, and she had her first kid when she was 19, was an non-uncompensated working mom, stay-at-home mom her entire life, and was financially dependent on a man for her entire life. And even as her husband, he died… My step-grandpa about eight years ago, 10 years ago, still financially dependent on him because of his pension, could not live her life without that. And I think about generations before my grandma and I think about… I was so deeply grateful, so I had my hand on my heart.
The Chicks fucking are singing the national anthem. Which by the way, we have… That was the other thing too, is these three women who have been through hell talking about what they believe and taking a stance that not many people agreed with at the time, or at least were not willing to say out loud. And I am fully sobbing. The sobbing where you can’t get air in your lungs. And also there’s multiple people next to me, behind me. I’m trying to hold it together. It was just incredible. I don’t remember Kristen what your question was, but it was incredible.
Kristen Fields:
I actually don’t think I even asked you.
Tori Dunlap:
Sorry, sorry-
Kristen Fields:
You just segued into it so beautifully. No, no, no. I mean, you’re speaking from your heart. It was perfect because that was one of my questions I wanted to ask that we talked about was what did that moment feel like, especially once she accepted the nomination. I know that you all got a surprise on Monday night because she came out and spoke.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. And I was actually in the arena for that, and I was really grateful I was. Came out in her coconut suit, by the way. I think we all know this by now, but it was a suit designed by Chloe. It was not a tan suit. The color was coconut, which is so funny and iconic. I think for me, I was there Thursday, got to be on the podium up until then. In between The Chicks and Pink were six people who had either been affected personally, directly, or had nieces, children who had died by gun violence. And that was the other thing that just wrecked me. That was utterly devastating. And I asked a question of David Hogg that we can run right now that I think is really interesting. I asked him a question about, basically… We can cut this, but how his… I feel like in order to get people to care, you have to just keep talking about your trauma over and over and over again.
And I think that’s the hard part, [inaudible 00:38:44]. I think that’s the hard part is unfortunately, in order to get people to care about reproductive rights, about gun violence, about climate change, is you have to talk about something that’s so deeply personal to you, that you might not want to do, that you might not want to… You and I are actors, one of the first things we’re told is that you should not take your own life and apply it to your character. So if your character’s dad dies and your dad died two years ago, you should not think about your own father dying, because that’s like ripping a bandaid open every time you have to do that performance. And I think about these people who have had some of the worst traumas inflicted on them who have been raped, who have seen their children die, their classmates die and have to, in order to get people to fucking care, they have to rip that bandaid open all the time.
So I think that was incredibly moving. Then I was taking off the podium because they had to bring more people in, and I was bummed, but also I was just thanking everybody. I was like, “Thank you. Thank you for having me.” And then there’s this kind of suite that they had for creators up at the very, very top level. You couldn’t go further up in the arena, and that’s where I got to see a lot of the speeches, including the Obama’s on Tuesday, Hillary and AOC on Monday, but also Kamala Harris’s address on Thursday. Do we want to talk about that?
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, I would love to. You’ve posted about it on social, you’ve talked about it, obviously, an incredibly historic moment for multiple reasons.
Tori Dunlap:
Regardless of who you support. Incredibly historic.
Kristen Fields:
And I think it seems like the gravity of that was understood, obviously by the room, but also something that has really struck me and the New York Times put out this… I think it was the New York Times, maybe I’m wrong, it could have been like the Atlantic, but a news organization… I’ll fact check myself here, put out something that was like, “Is joy a winning strategy?” Or whatever, was being snarky about it.
Tori Dunlap:
Let me tell you, it feels like it. It feels like it.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah. Well, I had cable that night, so I was able to watch it on CNN. Every time I watched clips from the DNC, whether that was you sending clips of just talking to these representatives, that sense of joy felt very palpable. If you want to do a whole jumping back into that moment for me, what was that like when Kamala Harris walks out? You know she’s about to accept the nomination. There was insane, loud applause for I don’t even… However long, two minutes, three minutes, four minutes. That was one of those moments where I was like, “Oh, I just want to know what Tori felt in the room.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I recorded part of that. I don’t know if the audio is good enough to keep. It was actually really interesting because we all know she’s coming out. She comes out. I’ve done a lot of… In case it wasn’t obvious, I’m kind of… I’m a political geek. I will go read… I spent an hour, hour, an hour and a half after, literally was sitting in my hotel room at 12:30 PM or 12:30 AM, on Friday morning, reading all of the analysis of her speech and the analysis of what she wore. So she comes out and let’s juxtapose… This is my political strategist hat going on. This is obviously very, very similar to the nomination of Hillary Clinton in 2016, 2015, but the interesting thing, Hillary wore all white. White is the color of the suffrage movement. It is the color that actually we were encouraged to wear Thursday as creators. We were encouraged to wear white for reproductive rights.
Hillary’s speech that night when she accepted the nomination was about a lot of things, but it was also very clearly, “I am making history. This is history. I’m the first woman official candidate by one of the two main political parties. I’m the official nomination.” The interesting thing about Kamala, she comes out in Navy, which I think is very, very interesting. Navy is the color of power. We associate presidents with navy. She does not come out in white, even though half of the room is in white. She just looks presidential. She looks presidential and the interesting thing in her speech, you can hear, she does not talk about breaking the glass ceiling. She does not talk about being the first woman of color nominee because she’s had three and a half days of people doing that for her. She has had three and a half days of Secretary Pete Buttigieg of the Obama’s of Hillary herself ramping up how historic this moment is.
So what Kamala Harris is doing is she’s telling people who might not know much about her, who might not be convinced that she’s ready, who… We just had a different candidate four weeks ago, and who is this woman? Even though she’s been VP, who is this woman? She is not here to talk about how history is being made. She’s here to convince us that she’s your next president, and I think that’s really fucking interesting. You listen to the speech, no reference of first Black woman, first Indian woman, first woman of color, breaking glass, no reference of that. In the arena, the audio went out, which at home you did not know. So people are cheering four minutes of standing ovation. The audio is so quiet, it’s so quiet. Now you can hear her, but all of us are doing the like… We have to literally turn our ear and listen a little better.
It takes about five minutes of her speech before it gets back to normal. So it might not have felt like it at home, but actually the cheers didn’t really start up again until she said, “And I am honored to accept your nomination.” That’s when the big cheers happened, because we were all having to be quiet to hear her, which both sucked because I felt like the energy had been sucked out of the room, but it was also, we had to just be right there with her because we couldn’t hear her very well. So that was something you probably didn’t know at home, was the audio in the stadium shifted, maybe we blew out a speaker. I don’t know what happened.
I think the big highlights of her speech for me, you could very much see by the structure of the speech we started with what is her background, who is she? What was her childhood like? We got a reference to her father, which we don’t normally get. She talked about how her mom… When she was playing on the playground, her mom would, “Stay close, Kamala.” But her father would say, “Go. Run, run as far as you can.” Talked about her upbringing, where she’s from, Oakland, et cetera. Then we did our resume building time as a prosecutor, time as a senator, time as VP. We built the resume then. Then we talked about policy. We got not only a mention of Gaza, Kayla and my assistant and I were literally counting how many ceasefire Gaza mentions we got on the main stage. It wasn’t enough. However, when she mentioned not only Israel, but also Palestine and how Palestinian voices deserve time and dignity, the entire arena erupted.
I was in a suite with other creators, most of whom I think share my perspective on this and believe that beyond a ceasefire is necessary, but peace in the Middle East is what we’re rooting for here and what we’re advocating for. They all erupted. And again, I am about one of just a handful of white people, a lot of Black and brown people in this suite and in the arena in general. That moment, I think it has been criticized as not doing enough. I agree with that. I also understand, again, this is political strategist hat on. I understand that everything is extremely tense. You cannot, as a presidential candidate come out and say basically, “Fuck you Israel.” Because Israel will bomb the shit out of the place.
So I think it was the best we were going to get and I’m really, really, really personally thankful she said it. And also I think it’s a very smart move politically because she had and still has a huge chunk of the Democratic Party who was very disillusioned because the handling of the war, genocide in Gaza. So that felt extremely significant, both when I reflected on it later, but also when I was in the arena. I think the other interesting thing, and you’ll hear it if we play a tape. Everybody said Beyoncé was coming. Everybody said Beyoncé was coming. It had been confirmed two hours before by TMZ. Like everybody said Beyoncé was coming-
Kristen Fields:
Which their post was hilarious where they were just like, “Sorry, we got it wrong.” And I was like, “Well.”
Tori Dunlap:
Wild. And usually the TMZ is right. That’s the funny thing is usually they’re right. So everybody I was talking to, even people who were in the know were kind of giving me the, “Well, who’s to say?” And I’m like, “Okay, so she’s coming.” We thought it would happen before. It doesn’t happen before Kamala comes out, okay. She gives her speech, great, does what it needs to do. I’ve been lucky enough to be high up in the arena where I can see the balloons. The balloons were there the entire time from the beginning of Monday. The balloons are up in the rafters tied up so they can’t get released. She ends her speech. Doug comes out, second gentleman, Tim Walz and Tim Walz’s wife. And then the balloons start coming and Freedom starts playing, and I know Beyoncé well enough to know whether this is a live vocal or not. Two lines in I’m like, “It’s not a live vocal.” I’m like, “Okay, so if we’re not getting Beyoncé at the balloon drop, we’re not getting Beyoncé at all.” Everybody stays in the arena though.
Kristen Fields:
Oh my gosh. It’s like that TikTok trend where people are like, “But wait, we haven’t seen Beyoncé yet.” And the lights-
Tori Dunlap:
Truly, truly.
Kristen Fields:
… are up and the people who are trying… The janitors are just trying to clean up around people. That’s literally what happened it sounds like.
Tori Dunlap:
It was like the female orgasm. You’re like, “Once again.” Oh, it’s happening. Nope, it’s not happening. Oh, it’s happening. No, it’s not happening. Everybody’s in the arena thinking this might still happen, and then when the balloons start falling, it’s very clear this is not happening. Now, personally would I love to see Beyoncé? A hundred percent, a thousand percent, a million trillion percent. I love her. I love her. Obviously. Here’s the thing though, I don’t think it would’ve been a smart move to have Beyoncé perform because she would’ve upstaged the whole fucking thing. This is a historic moment. The focus should be on her speech. It should be on the four days of discussion of policy, discussion of everything that happened. It is not a Beyoncé concert. It is not a Taylor Swift concert, even though Pink… Pink performs, but it’s not a Pink concert. That’s not why we’re here.
I don’t know if it was the most brilliant political move in the world to get people to tune in thinking Beyonce was going to perform. I don’t know if that was intentional, but kind of smart. I think it would’ve done them actually the biggest disservice to have somebody massive perform because it would’ve overshadowed the moment. So as I’m leaving, balloons are popping. It’s the most terrifying sound in the world. There were so many balloons they’ve now made their way out into the… Past the arena, into the hallways of the arena. I’m just trying to get out. It was kind of crazy, but also great. We had been told try to avoid interviews by anybody who seems a little sketchy,
Kristen Fields:
The MyPillow guy.
Tori Dunlap:
Basically.
Kristen Fields:
Mike Lindell. Oh my gosh.
Tori Dunlap:
Or that it could be a gotcha interview. So they warned us of that. On Monday we were walking out and as soon as we left the perimeter where you needed a credential, I was with Twink in a Redhead and somebody stopped Grant, and I’m kind of looking back and making sure he’s okay. It was very red flaggy to me immediately. One, because he clearly did not have a credential, which sometimes doesn’t mean anything, but if you’re more legitimate news, you’re going to have a credential. And two, just caught us immediately. I’m walking with Ash, we’re walking out, Grant catches up to us and I go, “What did he ask?” And he goes, “Basically, how did it feel to be there or whatever? How was Kamala’s speech?” And he goes, “I answered, ‘Kamala served cunt.'”
Kristen Fields:
I’m sorry, I was trying to hold in the giggle, I couldn’t-
Tori Dunlap:
Mother served cunt.
Kristen Fields:
It’s so good. Well, yeah, because if that’s a mainstream media, they’re not going to-
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Thank you. I literally said, I go, “Do you know how brilliant that was? They can’t use that.” And he goes, “Oh, I wasn’t even thinking about that.” Classic oh, Gen Z. I love you. Wasn’t even thinking about that. I was like, “That’s actually the smartest response you could have given because they can’t use that anymore.” Because they asked them then a question of… The second question was like, “What defines a woman?” Which is the anti-trans question.
Kristen Fields:
Okay, guys.
Tori Dunlap:
So I was like, actually, that’s the best answer you could have given. Yeah, I went back to my hotel. I read some political analysis until one in the morning and then went to bed, and it just felt historic. I know that no speech is going to be entirely perfect, but I think she did what she needed to do in that evening.
Kristen Fields:
Something that I saw a lot of commentary after the fact about how the speech really, really focused on… And again, this is not my original thought. This was probably somewhere on Threads when I was reading… Doing the same thing you were, which was just reading all the commentary, kind of as you mentioned, they did focus on all of these historic things about her being a Black woman, about her being an Indian woman, being a woman of color, that she didn’t need to, and something someone brought up was that it really stuck out that she focused most on being an American in that speech.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.. And being excited and proud to be an American.
Kristen Fields:
Yes. Which there was a Republican who spoke earlier in the night who talked about that, who was like, “We need to recognize the Democrats are just as patriotic.” Because I think to your point that you brought up earlier, there have been times where I do feel like the left has been exceptionally more critical of patriotism and blind patriotism is what I would say. Whenever I have this conversation with my conservative family members, I’m like, “I do feel patriotic, but I’m also not a blind patriot. I believe that I should call out when things are not being done.”
And I think that that was something that it felt like really hit well in the way that she gave that speech. I also had to point out that navy… I was told this by a lawyer a long, long time ago, but navy suits are the most trustworthy, which I think is so interesting too that… Even on a little psychological level of trying to… Like you said, aligning herself with presidential colors and looks, but also in this trustworthiness. Which I think is something that people are looking for because there’s a side that just wants to lie out its ass the whole time.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. And we really got American exceptionalism all throughout the speech, which is very typically Republican to be honest, or traditional Republican, not Trump Republican, but we got a lot of that of this is the best country in the world, and I’m very proud of it. And I think that is so different than what we’ve heard. And Kristen, to your point, I’m like, “I want to fly an American flag again.” I never thought I’d feel that way. The American flag has really been adopted by the conservative party. If you see a truck driving down the street with a huge American flag, you’re like, “I know who that guy is.” And I feel like it’s a smart move to actually, again, get people inspired, get people joyful, get people who are saying, “No, I actually really love this country for all its faults.”
And like AOC and many, many politicians have said before, loving this country does not mean loving it blindly. It does not mean patriotism, does not mean… True patriotism is I want the best for this. True love is I want the best for this, this thing, and I’m going to call out when I don’t think it’s the best. That’s a direct antithesis to Trump’s message where even though he is Republican, even though he says, “America’s the best country in the world.” He’s also saying, “America’s shit, we’re horrible. We’ve gone backwards. This is a terrible country.” And I think that that’s a really smart political move to give people who are proud of the country, even if they want to change it, a place to feel like, “Yeah, I can be joyful about this.” I can say, “No, I love living in America even though there’s a million things I want to change about it.” Because I don’t think anybody has been able to say that over the past, let’s call it eight, 12 years.
So I think that that was one of the biggest differences. And I really just felt with her speech, it did feel like going back in time in I think a way that’s actually really positive to maybe the early 2000s where of course we have 9/11, we have war, we have all of this, but we have a lot of respect in politics. I think about McCain and Obama. Now we’re talking late 2000s, but two people who diametrically opposed on a lot of issues, but still had so much respect for each other. And I think that that was one of the biggest takeaways I had is it felt less dramatic in a really comfortable way where I’m like, “Great, we don’t have to do all of this now.” We can have someone who is actually representative and also talking about issues, and it’s not just not Trump because that was a lot of the democratic messaging even into the 2020 election, which was just like, “Hey, I’m not Trump.”
That’s not going to do it anymore. That’s not going to cut it being like, “Pick the candidate that’s not Trump.” And you saw some conversations with people who spoke about protecting our democracy. There wasn’t a lot of that though in the main stage. There wasn’t a lot of that messaging anymore because I think everybody’s trying to move on from 2020. Everybody’s trying to move on from January 6th. And I think because America’s ready to move on, even though of course people should be prosecuted, it will go down in textbooks. I think people just want to talk about other things besides January 6th because they want to talk about the things that directly affect them.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah. Speaking of the DNC is where the Democratic Party unveils its principles, tenants, whatever you want to call it. What were some of the big ones that stuck out to you? We’d love to know too if there was anything financial that you got to discuss with anybody just because we’re the Financial Feminists, so maybe we should talk a little bit about money.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God, Kailyn and I kept talking about this every night. We kind of debrief for the next day after I got home. There were so many conversations about money. So many conversations, and it wasn’t as clear as personal finance, but it was all threaded through. And I found it really, really interesting. One because I think the economy is one of the biggest issues. So a lot of people are talking about that. That is one thing that I do think Kamala missed in her speech because people are saying it’s one of the biggest issues personally for them. And if you’re trying to win their vote. Trump talked a lot more about inflation, he talked a lot more about the economy, and I do feel like that was something that she could have done more of, but I think she’ll do more of that in the coming days. I feel like her speech was really like, “Here’s who I am, here’s the energy we’re bringing.” And then maybe talking about policies later.
Yeah, I think every issue, as we’ve talked about many times is a financial issue. Every feminist issue is a finance issue. Every finance issue is a feminist issue. So I really saw the economy got brought up a lot. Reproductive rights was the other big one and was the one that I was asking of course a lot of questions about, because it is so obviously a feminist issue. I think that what I didn’t see enough of was talk about climate change, especially on the bigger stages. We talked about it, but really they’re focused on the economy and I think reproductive rights. I think those are the two big ones as well as foreign policy. What else did I get to talk about? I mean, we’ll run these interviews over the next couple of weeks. We talked about gun safety, we talked about… I was lucky enough to talk to the governor of Hawaii. We talked about native land and recovering from the fires in Maui. Was that a year ago? Yeah, we talked… Sorry. It’s like a whirlwind trying to remember exactly who I talked to and about what.
Kristen Fields:
Well, and we’re going to be sharing clips on social. We’ll probably share more of these interviews on Financial Feminists throughout the next couple of months just because it seems like there was so many great conversations you got to have. Obviously today we can only share a few that feel like the standouts.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I think there’s always so many issues. And that was what I realized by day two is I realized even I wasn’t asking some questions that I wanted to ask about something like climate change. One, because you get five minutes with these people and they spend most of the time talking as they should, but you just realize, “Oh, the 10 questions I had prepared, I can only get through two of them or three of them.” So that’s one thing. And two, a lot of these folks totally understandably, and I think this is the smart thing that a lot of us who are not maybe in politics forget, one or two issues is really the focus of a lot of these people’s work. Like Mom’s Demand Action. Yes, they can talk to you about a million different things, but they’re there talking about gun safety and banning the assault rifles. Planned Parenthood could talk about a million different issues. They’re there to talk about reproductive rights.
So I think that there’s such a benefit in that way to focus, because I can already hear when we start releasing these interviews, people are going to be like, “But what about? But what about?” And I’m like, “Totally [inaudible 01:01:20] and also there’s so many issues.” There are so many issues to talk about. Universal healthcare, universal child care, paid family leave, reproductive rights. And I’m four, and this is “feminist women issues” and I haven’t even gotten to climate change, the economy, foreign policy, LGBTQ rights. Gosh, what else? Gun violence. There’s so many other things. Pete Buttigieg, high speed rail. There’s so many other things that we can talk about.
So I think that that is one thing I personally realized is like, “Oh, everything I want to ask about and everything I have to say I’m not going to be able to talk about.” And most of these people aren’t going to be able to talk about themselves either because there’s a lot of issues that people are dealing with all the time. There’s a lot of things people are thinking about all the time. The housing crisis. I can keep going. I think that a lot of these people have one or two issues that they’re really focused on. And those are the questions I asked of those people.
Kristen Fields:
I love that. I’m so glad… Yeah, I’m really glad we’re going to get to share some of that, like I said in the coming weeks on both the Her First 100K social, and also we’ll be sharing them on Financial Feminist here in your podcast feed. That’s my little plug here. Please subscribe. So Tori doesn’t have to say it this time.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you. I will also say in addition to subscribing, we have lost a lot of followers for talking about politics. It is something we have talked about as a company. It is something that I feel personally strong about. We will continue to do. However, this takes a hit on our business. This makes it harder to make money for ourselves and makes it harder for us to be able to support the work we’re doing. So if you support that kind of work, please share our content. Please share our Instagram. As of this recording, we’ve lost 90,000 followers, nearly 100,000 followers.
Now, it’s a combination of me posting a photo in a swimsuit and people being fatphobic and gross about that. But it’s also people who don’t want to talk about how money affects women differently in those kinds of policies. So please support the work we’re doing. It really, really makes a difference. I know you’re tired. Girl, I feel you. I know you’re tired. I know. You’re like, “Oh my God, I just want this election to be over.” When this election’s over, we either are in a better place or we’re in a worse place. We’re not in the best place, but we’re either in a better place or we’re in a worse place. So if you want us to be in a better place, I need you to do everything you possibly can at the individual level to make sure we’re there. That’s both at the top of the ticket, like Kristen says, but down ballot. That’s supporting my business and businesses like it. We really appreciate it. That is voting. That is making sure you are registered to vote, vote.org.
I had to check my voter registration. Fun fact, they had me at a different address. Me, they had me at a different address. I had to change my voter registration to make sure I was getting a ballot. Phone bank, knock on doors, donate if you’re able. Just have conversations if you’re not willing to do or can’t do any of the other stuff. I’m going to share this very briefly. Kristen, I haven’t told you this. We’re going to see if I can get through without crying. The shuttles were such a mess. I know, three, thank you. The shuttles were such a mess… Maybe four. That I ended up Ubering after the initial shuttle fiasco. So I would Uber back and forth from the convention because I was so energized leaving that stadium. Every single day I would get in my Uber and I would ask, “Hey, are you registered to vote?” For my Uber driver. First Uber driver’s like, “Yeah, I’m registered, we’re good.”
And I’m like, “Do you mind if I ask who you voting for it?” And she’s like, “Oh, Kamala, obviously.” And I was like, “Great.” So I don’t have to have a conversation. I think it was Tuesday night, maybe Wednesday night, I get in the Uber. It is a Black man right about my age. I’m 30, he’s 29. I go, “Are you ready for the DNC to be over? Is this just madness?” And he’s like, “No, actually, it’s kind of fun.” And I’m like, “You’re probably making great money.” And he’s like, “Yeah, I’m doing all right.” And I go, “Are you registered to vote?” And he goes, “Yeah, I am.” And I go, “Do you mind? Can I ask who you’re voting for?” And it gets really quiet in the Uber and I’m like, “Oh God, oh no.” We ended up having a 25-minute conversation. We talked the entire ride.
And he was not… I mean this in the kindest way possible, not the most articulate person. I think he had a lot of thoughts and couldn’t articulate them. But he basically said something like, “I don’t love the agenda around my own masculinity.” Which I took to mean the transgender agenda or really the focus on maybe hormone therapy, et cetera. So I asked… Which is always my, I’m curious, I’m trying to tell you and show you that I’m open to this conversation and I’m not going to judge you. “Tell me more about that.” That’s all my response. Tell me more about that. And he’s like, “I feel like a very masculine person, and I just am worried about that.” And again, he’s not articulating fully what he means. And he says something like, “”I can’t fully say it, and I don’t even know if I understand. And I realize he’s very self reflective, which is great. I’m like, “Okay, cool.”
And we end up having this fantastic conversation. He is a Black man from the south side of Chicago. I’m a white woman from Tacoma Washington who lives in Seattle. And I basically tell him, “I don’t know if anybody is trying to target you and “make you gay” or tell you you can’t be who you are, but I think that that’s how transgender and LGBTQ people feel too. They just want to feel safe. They just want to feel heard. They want to feel seen. They want to know that they have as many rights as we all do.” I told him the leading cause of transgender deaths is either violence or suicide. So that tells me that people don’t feel safe. They don’t feel like they can be the fullest versions of themselves.
And I tell him, “No one’s coming after you. No one’s trying to make you less masculine if that’s what you want to do.” And I said, “Of course, you know the Black Lives Matter Movement.” He’s like, “Yeah.” And I go, “The common criticism of Black Lives Matter, which I don’t think either of us agree with, is that all lives matter. And it’s like we’ve never said, all lives don’t matter. I think we’re having a lot more conversations about transgender rights because we just want transgender folks to matter as much.” And he goes, “Oh, I’ve never thought of it that way.” And I was like, “Oh, yes.”
So then we just have this really great dialogue back and forth. And he is doing a lot of the like, “Oh, that’s really interesting,” or “Yeah, oh, I’ve never thought about it that way.” Or, “Oh, you’re making me see it differently.” Which for me as a straight A student, I’m like, “Yes.” And also I’m just feeling really good. I tell him about my work and I tell him what Her First $100K does, and he goes, “Oh, that’s really cool.” And I’m like, “Yeah, because I think when people have money, they have more options. And at the end of the day, we just want to feel like we belong. We just want to feel safe. We just want to feel like we belong and that we have a place and that everything’s going to be okay.”
And we get to the hotel. And again, I really wanted to record this because I really wanted to play it for you all, but I was not going to do it without his consent. And I also didn’t want to ruin the moment knowing that he was getting recorded. And I go, “Can I shake your hand?” And he goes, “Yes.” And I go, “I’m Tori.” And he goes, “I’m Deontay.” Deontay was the name of my middle school bully. My middle school bully… This is not my middle school bully, but this is another guy named Deontay. And I just start crying because I’ve had this magical conversation with this complete stranger that was kind and was a back and forth and was listening and was just so lovely. And I start crying and I tell him, “Deontay was the name of my middle school bully, and now I have this great memory of Deontay’s now moving forward.”
And I just get out of the car and I go, “Oh.” I go, “Are you going to vote?” And he goes, “Yeah, I’m going to vote.” And I go, “Great. I’m really happy to hear that.” And I don’t ask him who he’s going to vote for. I just ask, “Are you going to vote?” I get out of the car. And that is at the end of the most exhilarating night of just energy and conversations and Kamala’s speech that happened two days after this. And so much of the through line of this convention was about the fact that we have way more in common than we think we do.
We all just want to belong. We all just want to feel seen. We want to feel heard. We want to feel all of those things. We want to feel safe. And it’s proof that you can have conversations about these things. Because even me, I go into sometimes these conversations and I’m not the best version of myself, and I’ll admit that. I get angry, I get fired up. I get really passionate. I can often not talk about politics with my parents, but also they watched every single night of the DNC because I was there, which was so cool.
So then we were having conversations about it, and we still disagree about some things, but I was able to have a more academic conversation, productive conversation with them. So this is all to say that this does… It does matter. It does matter because I’m doing it and I’m realizing it’s convincing me. I am being convinced that maybe we can have conversations. I’m being convinced that maybe people who are not going to vote or who just didn’t want to get caught up in it are now more passionate about it. So I just had, again, this great experience of feeling really fired up and passionate. But also these little micro experiences at the individual level of connection and of people who do feel more hopeful than they felt at the beginning. But that was… It was like the perfect cherry on top of a really, really cool night.
Kristen Fields:
The synchronicity in that is wild too. Just what an interesting juxtaposition.
Tori Dunlap:
And not to toot my own horn, because again, I had to really work at this. I think it’s easier to have conversations with strangers because you’re not biased. You’re not mad when your mom says something or your grandpa says something weird.
Kristen Fields:
Well, and there’s no fear of loss. When you’re having these conversations with people you love there is a fear of, what if I finally say something that makes them never want to talk to me again? Or what if they say something that necessitates me not being able to have the same type of relationship with them? And that’s really scary, and I recognize that in my own journey. Again, I live in the south. I grew up with a conservative family. A lot of my family is still incredibly conservative, and that is always playing in the back of my mind of those conversations. Whereas with a stranger, you’re like, “Well, I don’t know this person.” I don’t have a deeper emotional attachment to having a long-term relationship with them.
Tori Dunlap:
And I think if there’s one thing that I’m proud of that I did was go into that conversation asking curious questions. And I got to the point where I was asking him enough questions… And I didn’t do this in a manipulative way, but I knew what was going to happen is he wasn’t going to be able to articulate exactly what he meant, and in a way that was going to almost prove to him, “Wait, do I actually believe this?” Because I kept asking him, “Tell me more about that,” or “What do you mean by that?” And not in a condescending way or not in a gotcha way. It was just like, “Tell me what you mean about that,” because I was trying to understand where he was coming from. And in doing that, he realized that maybe he didn’t understand where he was coming from either.
We had got Scott Shigeoka on the show, it was about a last year, I think, to talk about curiosity and hard conversations. And that’s exactly what we’re talking about here. It’s just a little tinge of curiosity, a little pixie dust, and just being open to what you hear. And also trying to connect with people on a deeper level. Because I got past the policies with him and I was just like, “Let’s talk about what we want as human beings.” We want to feel safe, we want to feel loved. That’s it. So anybody who’s trying to advocate for the kind of policies at the core, if we really dig down deep, that’s all people want.
Kristen Fields:
Well, and you brought up hope in… All through this conversation, which obviously that was a very famous campaign slogan of Barack Obama when he ran. Especially when we think about the Women’s Rights Movement, because obviously we’re a Financial Feminist Podcast. Yes, we’re going to talk about politics at large, but specifically the Women’s Rights Movement and how the DNC is playing into that. And just in general, the political climate, even if we’re pulling it back from the DNC specifically, you got to talk to a lot of representatives. You got to talk to a lot of activists and advocates in a lot of different spaces who probably, even though they are all left or all over the democratic spectrum, if we’re going to… Because it is, it’s a wide spectrum. What made you feel hope after this week?
Tori Dunlap:
It was very interesting because I was out of the country when Biden dropped out, or it was the day before we left. So I was kind of on vacation and I was still paying attention, but I was still… It’s just different than one, being at work and talking to people and two, being in the actual country. So I got home, and again, I’m not going to lie, I was kind of like, “Meh.” Like Kamala… And even now I feel this way, Kamala’s not my favorite candidate. She’s not. She’s not the person… I’m an Elizabeth Warren, girly. I love Bernie. Bernie walked right past me, by the way, which I was just like, “Ah.” And he looks just so over it as he should. He’s just like, “Meh.” But I am more progressive than the candidate we have for president.
So even as someone who is of course, both a feminist in real life, but also a feminist online, everybody’s like, “Oh my gosh, you must be so excited.” And I’m kind of like, “Meh. Yeah, I am. I think it’s better than Trump,” but I was still not super jazzed. Even after the DNC… I’ll give the cons first and then the pros. Even after the DNC, again, not my favorite candidate, not exactly what I believe, but this is a bus, and I am choo-chooing, that’s the train, but I am excited to be on this bus now. I’m thrilled to be on this bus because I know what’s at stake if this bus doesn’t reach its destination, I know what’s at stake. Now, there’s a million other things that are also going on, especially I’m thinking about Gaza. She is not as progressive on Gaza as I would like. And I also… Which I think gets lost. People need to understand, you cannot solve nearly a century of conflict in the Middle East in 10 months.
You can’t do it. And you also… Israel is a ally to the United States, just like France or Germany or any of these other countries. And if you go out on a public platform as a nominee for president, and again, say something like… Again, this is the bastardized version, but basically, “Fuck Israel.” One, you potentially alienated a ton of Jewish folks. Even though I think the really… The people who I believe are truly aware and understand this issue, which is not entirely me, but understand that you can be pro-Palestinian, and also not anti-Semitic, but you potentially alienate all those people and second, you cause even more violence and even more hoopla, I guess if you want to call it in Gaza. So I think that that’s one thing that I understand.
My heart is so pro-love and anti-war, and is ready for all of this to stop. My brain also understands that it’s not that simple. So that’s my con. I wish she would’ve talked more about that. I very much wish… And you and I talked about this before we started recording, that a Palestinian activist or Palestinian legislators would’ve gotten as much time at the DNC as pro-Israel folks were given. So that is, I think, one thing I would’ve seen more of. Beyond that, we vote. We vote because the bus… If the bus doesn’t get us to its destination, we’re fucked guys. Everything else is at risk. And I know that this is the common talking point of the DNC, but that’s how I feel, and that’s what I know to be true. My rights as a woman are taken away. Queer folks rights are taken away. It doesn’t feel as safe anymore.
AOC said something in an interview a couple months ago that I think is so wise. She said, “Who do you want to organize under? Who do you want to organize under? Even if you don’t like all the policies, who do you want to organize under?” I would rather organize under Kamala Harris and a Democratic Congress than I would under Donald Trump and a Republican Congress. We have 75 days. We have 75 days to get this shit done. You’re going to be tired. That’s what they want you to feel. They want you to feel tired. They want you to feel like there’s no hope. And if you need… I can’t believe we’ve gone this long without talking about it. If you need inspiration, you’ve seen a clip. You’ve seen many clips on social already, I need you to watch from beginning to end… I need you to do this one thing for me, go watch Michelle Obama’s speech from the second night at the DNC.
I was lucky enough to be in the room. I am not overstating, it was the best speech I’ve ever seen in my life. And although Kamala is my favorite candidate, God, everything Michelle was saying, I am right on board with because of the policies that affect my life, that affect people I care about, that affect how we operate as a nation. And what she talked about is all of these things that are going to happen for the next 75 days. We’re going to see folks like Trump and other Republicans make fun of her, give her gross, racist, sexist nicknames. We’re going to see a dip in the polls. We’re going to see that the momentum isn’t there anymore, most likely. We’re going to see all these things, and it’s going to be very easy to just be like, “Well, we’re fucked.” Or on the flip side, “Actually, we’ve got this.”
We did that in 2016, we cannot do that again. The Ego of, “We’ve got this, we’ve got this in the bag, so I don’t have to phone bank, I don’t have to donate. I don’t have to vote because there’s no way he’s getting elected.” I need you to keep the energy for the next 75 days, and if you need more energy, come back and listen to this episode. Go listen to Michelle’s speech. Go watch her speech. It was so powerful, and it’s exactly how I felt. And I’m also sitting there again, surrounded by Black folks who are seeing themselves represented, and that is so fucking cool. Seeing themselves represented in history is so fucking cool. And I as a white person have a responsibility to do everything in my power to make that happen.
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, so good. It’s helped me a little bit, but I think of politics because I do think there is that exhaustion factor that we all face. And I’m like, if politics is a video game, it is Animal Crossing in that it is ongoing forever, and you have to keep building and you have to… You know what I mean? There’s for… The Animal Crossing friends out there, you know that game does not end. You keep playing, you keep building, you keep working.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, and for 75 days, we’re not done after the 75 days, right?
Kristen Fields:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s not, we get to ride off into the sunset. Although there is one candidate who has basically said that.
Kristen Fields:
But I think there’s hope in that when you are feeling disillusioned by your choices, when you are feeling frustrated or like a candidate doesn’t represent every little niche issue or even the big issues that you want them to represent, there is that, “Oh yeah, this is still someone I can work with and this is still something we can work on.” And this is the path of least resistance to that. Like you said, we’re a bus. We’re not an Uber unless you want to run, which you should.
Tori Dunlap:
Nope, I couldn’t agree more. And I think this doesn’t mean exhaust yourself. Rest is resistance. Rest is important. Black folks have been saying that for a long time. I had to take this weekend, I literally got off the plane and I was so fired up, and then I realized I had Covid and it was very clear I could not leave the house and I could not make phone calls and I could not do anything. So I did what I could do from the couch. And I also rested because I know that this is going to be a tough 40 to 75 days, so I had to rest up and get back on the horse in a couple days.
So I think that ultimately, again, we’ll continue to release the conversations and I really hope that you take inspiration from those. Your vote matters. It is not hopeless. It really does make a difference. Your voice is needed. I am honored to represent you. I’m honored to represent you at this incredible event. I was very lucky to be there. And let’s just get it done. Let’s just get it done, guys. Vote.org, make sure your voter registration is up-to-date. Have conversations with your family and your friends if you can. Send pizza to the polls, that’s the other thing I love doing. We’ll link that down below too. And I don’t know, Kristin, anything else?
Kristen Fields:
No. Thank you so much for coming on your own show. I was like, “How do I wrap this?” Can you plug yourself really quickly? Where can people find you?
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you for having me. @herfirst$100K on all the socials, Financial Feminist Podcast and book. Vote.org, that’s where you can find me for the next 75 days. Vote.org. But no, I’m excited and we’ll have more to come. So thank you. Thank you, Kristin. Thank you my team. My God. Thank a Her First $100K team member today, because this is not just me. They work so hard at their jobs so I can do mine. And really excited for the next couple months, and I can’t believe I can say that. I’m actually excited. Let’s go.
Kristen Fields:
Let’s go.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, and Tamisha Grant, research by Sarah Sciortino, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First $100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Taylor Chou, Sasha Bonnar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Kurronen, Daryl Ann Ingram, and Meghan Walker, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First $100K, our guests, and episode show notes visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you’re confused about your personal finances and you’re wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com/quiz for a free personalized money plan.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
