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Sustainability – “avoidance of the depletion of natural resources in order to maintain an ecological balance.”

We’re going to go out on a limb here and say that most of the time when you hear the word sustainability, your mind might go to plastic straws, saving the bees, or eating less red meat — and you’d be correct. But sustainability isn’t all ecological.

The impacts of climate change are not relegated only to the environment. The harsh reality is that climate change is costing us our natural resources and creating devastating financial consequences.

We wanted to dig deeper into the connection between sustainability and finances, so we reached out to Tori’s friend and former client, Moji, who owns Blue Daisi Consulting — a zero waste consulting agency.

This is a PACKED episode. In it, Tori and Moji talk about our depleting natural resources, the sustainability and zero waste movement, the economic implications of climate change, environmental racism, and the steps we can take on an individual and collective level to slow down its effects.

Bonus: you get a fun glimpse of Tori’s Timothee Chalamet obsession.

We also talked about some of our favorite sustainable companies, including imperfect foods and episode sponsors Armoire and Eucalyptus Farms.

Not sure where to start with your finances? Take the free Money Personality Quiz to get tailored resources for your financial journey!

Moji’s Links:

Blue Daisi Consulting Website

Blue Daisi Instagram

Moji’s Instagram

Free Guide for Small Businesses

Want to be a client like Moji? Work with me in private coaching!

Timestamps:

2:38 – What is the zero-waste movement? How does it relate to sustainability?

5:10 – Is zero-waste and sustainability only for the elite?

8:10 – Catch the Timothee Chalamet joke (for the real fans)

8:50 – The grim reality of the cost of living the way we currently live

12:35 – Defining a “circular economy,” how we get there, and countries leading the way

16:45 – Discussing the financial impacts of creating (or not creating) more sustainable systems

22:54 – Learning what stability means to you and how you can implement it for your lifestyle

26:06 – How COVID has affected the zero waste movement

31:56 – We define environmental racism and how it has lasting effects on individuals and society as a whole

35:00 – How Moji, as a black woman in a very white space, faces unique challenges in the sustainability world

39:44 – Advice for small business owners on how to be more sustainable

42:45 – How can we use our vote (and our dollar) to build more sustainable systems

50:30 – Is the burden for sustainability and zero waste on the individual, industries, or both?

57:15 – Self-care for sustainable living

59:24 – How to protect ourselves from the effects of climate change, and more ways to build sustainability in your day to day life

Resources:

Our HYSA Partner Recommendation (terms apply)

Get my Cash Calendar

Imperfect Foods

Local Harvest – Community Supported Agriculture

4 Common Misconceptions About Zero Waste

Timothee Chalamet Statistics

Circular Economy: A Shareable Explainer

Built To Fail: 7 Examples Of Planned Obsolescence

The value of statistical life : a contingent investigation in China

What is Zero Waste?

Environmental Racism Has Left Black Communities Especially Vulnerable to COVID-19

100 Companies Responsible for 71% of Waste

What is the Connection Between Zero Waste and Environmental Justice?

Climate Change Threatens the Stability of the Financial System

10 Simple Changes for a More Sustainable Life

ROI from Changing Lightbulbs

A Sustainable Mind Podcast-Moji

Low Waste Living Podcast-Moji

Zero Waste, Gradual Change

How Starbucks will Profit from Sustainability

The Business Case for Eliminating Paper Receipts

How Much Food Waste there is each Year

Business Case for Reduced Food Waste

Average Amount of Unworn Clothing

Impact of Pollution on Worker Productivity

Impact of Air Pollution on Student Achievement

Most Effective Individual Actions Against Climate Change

Transcript

Tori:

Hi, to you. Welcome back to Financial Feminist. I’m Tori Dunlap, I’m an speaker and educator, founder of Her First $100K. And that girl who has a cardboard cutout of Timothée Chalamet in her apartment, he’s wearing the silk suit from the Venice Film Festival Red Carpet, because that suit was a revelation. All right. So when you think about climate change, your mind likely goes to natural disasters or rising sea levels. And you may not realize that the climate crisis is negatively impacting your wallet in the greater financial landscape. Now, if just the words climate crisis freaked you out, I need you to stay with me. I promise this episode is optimistic. I promise you that this is a necessary episode for you to listen to.

Tori:

Today’s guest is my good friend, client and zero waste consultant, Moji Igun of Blue Daisi Consulting. We chat about the impacts of climate change, both ecologically and financially, and how we can create a more sustainable world through tiny habits. If you’re committed to bettering our earth for the sake of fucking saving it and avoiding a WALL-E situation, this episode is required listening. And please, if you love the show, rate and review, subscribe, tell your friends, we appreciate your support of our mission and this movement. Let’s get into it.

Tori:

Give us an intro to you. And we can talk a bit maybe how we know each other as well, but tell us about who you are and what you do.

Moji:

Yeah. So I am a friend of Tori. I actually started out as one of your clients, which is really fun. But yeah, I am a zero waste and sustainability consultant specifically for small businesses. So I help them find creative ways to reduce waste and be nice to the planet.

Tori:

You and I started off as many of my friends have now become, they were clients and now they’re friends. Trisha’s on this the season as well who’s a client turn friend. And so I just love getting to know the people I work with and then become friends with them too. So it’s my favorite. So I am so excited to talk to you about sustainability and about zero waste, especially as it relates to money. And when we were doing research for this episode, it became so clear to me how interlocked these two things are. And so if you could just tell me, first of all, how do you define zero waste and especially for you, how does that manifest in your own life?

Moji:

Yeah. So zero waste honestly sounds pretty scary if you’re just hearing it for the first time, you’re like, “I’m supposed to make zero trash. What is that about?” And so I found the zero waste movement actually on Instagram in 2017. Just browsing in the world, found this thing about fitting your trash in a Mason jar. That was the whole part of the movement. And I was shook, first of all, I was like, “What is this? This is wild.” And then I started learning more about it and I was like, “Wow, this is a really revolutionary way of thinking.” The Mason jar thing, it’s a good marketing thing and it’s wonderful for being catchy, but the deeper you go into zero waste, you’re like, “Wow, this is really, really awesome.”

Moji:

So what zero waste actually is it’s an industrial term that defines diverting as much stuff away from the landfill as possible. So when we throw things away in our trash can, it goes into a landfill where it sits forever and ever never. It’s not doing anything. It’s not breaking down. It’s just doing nothing. And so all of that natural and economic value is getting wasted, just thrown away. And so what the zero waste movement is trying to do is to stop that by recycling, composting, getting really creative about how we use our resources on this planet.

Tori:

Yeah. So what are the financial implications of being zero waste or sustainable? And maybe what’s the difference… Is there a difference between zero waste and sustainability or are they kind of one and the same?

Moji:

I would say that zero waste is a niche within sustainability. So when you think about sustainability with a capital S, it’s energy and water and all of the other pieces of sustainability that you can think of. Zero waste is just one piece of that, but it’s interconnected with all of the other things.

Tori:

So you can be sustainable without being zero waste?

Moji:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And you asked about your financial implications of doing that. And so when you’re thinking differently about how you consume goods and services, you’re able to save money and use your money differently. So I know you have the idea of the money diary, where you look at what you thought, how do you feel about it? Does it align with your values? Same thing with zero waste. You look at what you’re buying and is this contributing to greenhouse gas emissions and pollution in the ocean. It’s thinking about how your values align with your purchases.

Tori:

It’s almost like you’re a client or something.

Moji:

Almost.

Tori:

Almost. Honestly, when I hear about sustainability or about zero waste, I almost think to myself that it’s a very elite choice because when you look at buying organic food, when you look at buying things that are more expensive but sustainable or reusable, these things tend to be more expensive. And so when I consider the financial implications of sustainability, I mean, to be honest, my head goes to like, “Okay, the rich people could be sustainable or the people who have means versus maybe the communities that need sustainability the most, or would benefit from sustainability the most are not the communities that have access to it.” So can you talk a bit about that?

Moji:

Yeah, absolutely. So you’re not wrong. When you look at sustainability influencers on Instagram, you see a lot of rich white women who just have all of this time to go to 10 different stores. And that’s not me. So I totally understand the visuals that don’t really align with sustainability, but I like to break down that word. Sustainability is the ability to be sustained. So the ability to keep doing things for a long period of time. And so it’s not just about getting all the high tech, sustainable products and whatever’s newest on the market. It’s about what can you do that will last a long time. So my version of sustainability is using the forks and knives that I have in my house already when I go out to eat. Before COVID, we can go to do takeout, I would take a fork and knife with me so I’m not using disposable things. Simple things like that are considered sus
tainable, but they don’t always look like that in the mainstream.

Tori:

Yeah. When you think about, again, the financial implications of sustainability, it can feel intimidating, both to actually get started but also if you are not doing well financially and you’re like, “Ha, I’m trying to improve my carbon footprint as an individual, I’m trying to be more sustainable, but I’m already struggling to make ends meet.” That has to be a tricky balance there.

Moji:

Oh yeah. So whenever I talk to clients, I always say that the first step is noticing what you notice, see what problems you can address and what you can shift in your own life. But really step zero before that is just becoming financially secure and stable. If you can’t pay your rent next month, stop thinking about sustainability. Work on that first. So absolutely becoming financially secure, getting your emergency fund, all of those basics down is absolutely a prerequisite for anything beyond that.

Tori:

Yeah. So if we don’t change our habits at all, what happens to the environment?

Moji:

Oh my gosh.

Tori:

None of us change. If we keep at the pace we’re going, what ends up happening?

Moji:

Yeah. I mean, not to be a downer, but absolute catastrophe.

Tori:

Don’t be a downer. This is a serious question.

Moji:

No, absolute catastrophe. So I’ll give a couple of statistics that will help like put this into mind.

Tori:

Statistics. Statistics.

Moji:

Exactly. So… [inaudible 00:08:17].

Tori:

No, this is going to be in the show. I don’t fucking care. If you don’t know what we’re talking about, Timothée Chalamet, the famous Timothée Chalamet video of him in his high school statistics class, just YouTube search, Timothée Chalamet statistics. You will not be disappointed.

Moji:

I walked right into that for you. So I-

Tori:

I have to. [inaudible 00:08:39]. And I at least appreciate that with you, I could actually do it [inaudible 00:08:44]. Other people, I just have to do this. [inaudible 00:08:46]. And I’m like, “I… Nevermind.”

Moji:

So yeah. I’ll give some stats, but it’s pretty bleak. It’s not good. Basically, a couple of things, the rate that we’re consuming are natural resources on this planet. So if we all consume the average American, we would need five planet earths to be able to sustain at that pace. So we need five times as much stuff than we actually have to live the way that we currently live.

Tori:

For how many generations? How long would that keep us around?

Moji:

I don’t know. I don’t have the exact, by year 3000 we’re done. I don’t have that number, but it’s just we’re using things five times faster than the earth can replenish it. So we need to cut our stuff at least by 20% to even be breaking even. And Americans are one of the worst countries in the world for that. I know in like the UK, it’s like a little bit less, but still not great. More than one planet earth. With trash, we contribute at least four and a half pounds of trash per person per day. And that’s just a random number if you don’t have any context for that. But if you think about that on the scale of thousands of pounds per person per year, and then the population of the city that you live in. Millions of pounds of trash that once was a natural resource and now it’s just sitting in a landfill with nothing to do. It’s not returning to the earth.

Tori:

Right. It doesn’t have a place to go.

Moji:

It’s doing nothing. So we’re just literally just dumping things in holes in the ground with no intention or purpose. And so that is just, as a habit, unsustainable. So we really need to readjust the way that we look at the stuff we buy and make and shift away from that extractive way of being.

Tori:

Right. And when we say natural resources, can you just define what natural resources are? I mean, a lot of them are pretty obvious, but-

Moji:

Anything that comes from the ground. So I think about my cell phone, that is natural resources in terms of the plastic that you need to like make all the little semiconductors. The metals. The battery, yeah. All of that stuff came from the earth and took a lot of energy and labor to get it into this product. And then at the end of its life, after what? Three, four years of having an iPhone, you toss it away, that makes no sense. So creating systems where we’re not doing that anymore is the point of it.

Tori:

Yeah. And I know even clean water is a natural resource that in many countries is scarce because of climate change and other factors around the earth changing right now.

Moji:

Yeah. So climate change makes it… The resource less scarce. So we’re losing forests, we’re losing water. All of these resources are becoming less and less and then we’re drawing from them more and more. And so that just doesn’t add up.

Tori:

Right. So I took an environmental science class in college back in the day. Yeah. And I’m trying to remember the phrase and hopefully you remember it, this idea that things used to last for longer, but that they are now limited in order for us to buy more, to boost the economy.

Moji:

Yes, planned obsolescence.

Tori:

Yes, thank you. I think about this concept all the time and I can never fucking remember the name of it. But yes, they talked about, in my class, around light bulbs were something that was very common. They talked about there’s this in Ohio, and a firehouse, there’s a light bulb that’s 120 years or something crazy. And then panty hose, they talked about how panty hose used to be. You couldn’t rip them, you couldn’t put a hole in the
m and they would last forever. But that of course was not helping boost the economy, boost consumerism. So talk to me about the financial implications of that decision to make things more temporary.

Moji:

Yeah. So then I want to talk about something called the circular economy, which is zero waste on steroids. So zero waste-

Tori:

The circular economy. I’m like “hmm,”-

Moji:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tori:

Titillated, yes.

Moji:

The TL;DR is that we are not throwing anything away in the circular economy. That’s the end goal. And how we get there is that we create systems where we can reduce, reuse, recycle in the economy. So what that could look like for example is, back to the cell phone example, when you’re done using your cell phone, you can give it back to Apple or Samsung or whoever, they will take it apart, do whatever they do and then make a new phone out of that stuff. So we’re not just throwing it away or e-cycling it. And then it gets… We don’t even know where it goes. The manufacturers are built into the system. And so that’s what the circular economy looks like. And what that does, it decouples economic growth from the extraction of natural resources. So we don’t have to keep taking, taking, taking from the earth. We can just keep recycling what we have, still grow the economy, still do the stock market, all those things. But we’re not taking so much from the earth.

Tori:

Versus what’s happening now, which is [inaudible 00:13:48].

Moji:

We need [inaudible 00:13:49]. Yeah, exactly. And continue taking from the earth to make things happen. And then planned obsolescence means everything is designed to break at a certain point. So we want to keep things breaking so that people keep buying things. And that’s not sustainable. So shifting away from that is where we’re trying to go.

Tori:

Do you feel there’s also a… Not just like a literal thing that’s happening for these companies where they’re making something that doesn’t work as well, but I feel like we are, as a society, moving away from fixing broken things and instead just buying new ones.

Moji:

Yes. And I think that’s partially because we’ve lost the mechanisms for how to do that. I feel like younger gen… I know that I had to learn this stuff myself as an adult. Where do you get your shoes fixed? I know it’s a cobbler, but where’s the cobbler? So learning this kind of stuff as an adult is definitely not built into at least millennial and younger culture. So we have to learn this stuff ourselves. And so, it’s definitely a culture shift that we have to get used to.

Tori:

Yeah. And especially when you can just add to cart [inaudible 00:14:53] and just have a new thing and cheaper often than fixing the thing that has broken. You can just buy a brand new.

Moji:

That’s by design so that we keep buying things. So, yeah. It’s all part of a system.

Tori:

Right. So how is a country in the kind of economics of whole nation affected financially by climate change?

Moji:

That’s something that’s still in development. So there are a few countries in Europe that are way ahead of the game in the circular economy. Denmark is doing some really cool stuff with circular economy, but we don’t-

Tori:

Do you have any examples?

Moji:

Yeah, I mean, so I don’t have like very specific examples, but I know there’s something called a circular district or something of that name where… Think about a factory that gives off a lot of heat, through the smoke stacks. They connect it with a factory that needs that heat to generate energy. And so all of this stuff is connected. The waste streams become food for other things. And so all of the things are interconnected and designed that way. And so they kind of have a couple communities of that nature, but we’re still kind of studying the impacts on GDP and economic development. But so far everything looks like that is going to grow all of the things that we expected to grow. So jobs grow, stocks grow, everything is going to go upwards because we have so much more room for innovation and developing new things without affecting the environment.

Tori:

We’re obviously anti-Trump on this podcast for obvious reasons. He had this huge push towards saving jobs that were focused on these old ways of generating energy. So coal miners and oil production, and all of those things. When I think about the financial, again, as an economy, it would be easy to think “Yes, we have to keep doing it the old way because it costs too much to do it this quote-unquote ‘New way'”. Can you dispute that? I’m sure you can. And what does it look like if we do have these renewable energy sources? How does that affect both the economics of a country as well as us personally?

Moji:

Yeah. So I actually think that this is part of Biden’s new infrastructure plan, which is investing in renewable energy or part of it is renewable energies and green jobs. And so yes, the dollar amount on buying all these new technologies, investing in this infrastructure, training people, all of this stuff costs more upfront. It’s an investment. But theoretically it’s supposed to pay its returns off, within a reasonable amount of time, like 20, 30 years. So what the real cost comparison is because what people want to see is that price tag versus what we’re doing now. That’s not the real comparison. It’s the cost of both that, but also the cost of not doing anything. So like you were asking earlier, if we allow our seas to fill up with plastic and our water sources to deplete, what is the cost of that? We don’t have a dollar amount for that. It’s disaster. Not that is what we’re trying to do.

Tori:

Yeah. And of course, it’s one of those things, if it’s more expensive, but the right thing to do, then we do the thing that’s the right thing to do.

Moji:

It seems obvious, but some people don’t think that way.

Tori:

Yeah. Well, because it’s very easy. And America, I think it’s the very… A country of individualism. So it’s like, “I’m taking care of, and maybe my kids, but beyond that, okay, every man for himself.”

Moji:

Right. Which is a little scary. So let’s not do that so much.

Tori:

Yeah. So we found a stat when we were researching that air pollution alone in China has caused over 1.6 million deaths a year. And this is not even talking about the moral and beauty of a human life separate from the economy. But the economic value of a life, which I didn’t know that we could say what the economic value of a life is, but is $7 million. Meaning their current levels of air pollution are this causing this social cost of over 11 trillion dollars a year.

Moji:

Yeah. That’s not hard to believe.

Tori:

What does that mean for a country? Obviously not the loss in grief of losing people, but also just the financial side of that. I imagine that’s pretty devastating.

Moji:

Yeah. Exactly. So if we think about what is the point of even making all these changes? We think about the environment as a separate thing from us, like “Okay, we’re saving the environments, #save the turtles.” That’s all great. But it’s all part of us. The environment is not this other thing that we need to save and protect. It’s part of human society. We don’t eat if there’s no environment, it’s just that simple. And so you’re talking about air pollution in China. It’s not just lung disease, heart disease, all the things that come with that. But it’s mental health of having to deal with these really not great environments to live in and to breathe in. And it’s not enjoyable to be surrounded by air pollution. So it’s all of these interconnected injustices that are happening that are not just what’s happening to the earth itself, but how it affects the people, the animals, everything. So it’s all one system.

Tori:

Well, and separate from the economy. You talked about mental health, you talked about being in unsafe conditions. We know that that affects money. We know that mental health and money are tied. And we know that if you are less safe, if you are less joyful or content or happy, that your money will be impacted and your entire prospects or your future of not only yourself, but generations to come, that will be affected.

Moji:

Yeah. I know when I’m not doing well mentally, I am just buying things just to buy things. Just doing anything to self [inaudible 00:21:08].

Tori:

Which doesn’t help consumerism. And [inaudible 00:21:11] sustainability because now we’re in this cycle.

Moji:

There’s just [inaudible 00:21:14], exactly. So we need to be mentally well, we need to be physically well in order to be able to sustain the environment and ourselves.

Tori:

Yeah. This is obviously a very gendered perspective, but I think a lot of the personal finance advice aimed at women is like “You have a spending problem, spend less money.” And when we think about, again, a society that is so focused on consumerism, on not wearing an outfit more than once, or making sure that you’re always quote-unquote “On trend.” I see this juxtaposition between the personal finance community, which is like, “You are spending too much as women spend less.” And also of course, society, which is like, “No, spend more, look cute all the time, have makeup and put yourself together and consume, consume, consume.” And both of these things don’t necessarily… Of course, they’re sexist as fuck. And they don’t acknowledge that there is a balance to those.

Moji:

Yeah, absolutely. Part of that is to move away from that kind of patriarchal guilt, shame type of society to one where we make all of the sustainable habits and practices cool. I know that thrifting has been on the rise for the past few years. When I was a kid I would thrift and it was not cool. I would wear these really oversized sweaters. It wasn’t cool. But now it totally is. Gen Z is rocking it with thrifting. And so it’s just shifting our culture to see that these things that are sustainable are also on trend and also cool. And kind of move us in that direction.

Tori:

Yeah. And I think there’s a lot of pushback now on fast fashion and on the economic, or excuse me, the lack of sustainability with fast fashion. But it’s also goes back to that problem of a $30 sweater at H&M of course is way cheaper than a $350 sweater that maybe was made in a factory that wasn’t by children and which doesn’t kick puppies and doesn’t [inaudible 00:23:21] to the ozone layer. If you are a consumer, if you’re a listener, how do you balance that? You go by the $30 sweater, if that’s all you can afford? And then how do you not feel guilty about that?

Moji:

Yeah. Yeah. So it’s really creating your own definition of what sustainability means for you. So if you’re looking at your bank account and you’re like, “I want to buy a cute dress for my next whatever,” and you have a hundred dollars to spend, figure out what’s the best use of that money. Is it spreading it out over a couple purchases? Is it using a little bit and then saving the rest for later? Is it buying that investment piece and going for that? It’s just figuring out what works best for you because we live in a really messed up society where we can’t make the best choices all the time, but it’s figuring out when we can make those good choices and going from there.

Tori:

Can you walk me through, for you personally, what were your habits pre-finding the zero waste movement? And what is one in particular that you find absolutely crazy now? You’re like, “I can’t believe I did that.”

Moji:

Yeah. I think it’s just more funny than crazy, but it’s the way that I grocery shop. So pre zero waste movement, how I would do that is I would just realize I was hungry and I would go to the grocery store and just walk up and down all the aisles and just pile in things until I-

Tori:

Oh, you know the financial ramifications of that. You shouldn’t shop hungry because you’re going to buy more. You shouldn’t go to the store without a list.

Moji:

Yep. Check, check.

Tori:

You shouldn’t… Yeah. Oh, man.

Moji:

[inaudible 00:24:55]. Just like, “Oh yeah, I need that. I need that. I need that.” And then hope a meal came out of it.

Tori:

[inaudible 00:24:58] good, sure.</ p>

Moji:

Yeah. So always over budget, never had the right things, was going back for multiple trips. Not great. And then obviously have changed that after zero waste. So the way I shop now is I have a CSA that I get every week. So I have a little box of organic food that comes to my doorstep.

Tori:

CSA?

Moji:

A community supported agriculture. So any farm in the area will send you whatever’s in season. And they just… Yeah. I can send you a link later or share it with the whole crew.

Tori:

I have imperfect produce. Is that similar?

Moji:

Yeah. That’s pretty similar. It’s the same idea of just having what’s in season and sending it to you instead of buying things from other places. So yeah, I do that. And then I have some local bulks stores that I get, like grains and rice and all that stuff from. Mostly zero waste, except for my guilty pleasures like chips and ice cream and stuff, but mostly zero waste grocery shopping. So huge habit shift in that range.

Tori:

So are you taking your Mason jars with you to go shopping?

Moji:

Before COVID, yeah, absolutely. I would bring little bags.

Tori:

Oh, let’s talk about that because I didn’t think about that to be honest. How has COVID affected zero waste? I mean, one of the only very clear zero waste things I think I do in my life right now is bring my reusable bags to the grocery store so I don’t have grocery bags. But they weren’t doing that because of COVID. I didn’t even think to ask you about that, but it’s so obvious now that you say it. So how has COVID affected zero waste in general and also specifically your zero waste journey?

Moji:

Yeah. So personally it’s made things a lot more difficult because what I would do is I would have my little zero waste kit with my little Mason jar, my fork and my bags and all that stuff that I would go run my errands and it would be pretty low waste. But now we have all of these safety precautions with no reusable mugs at the coffee shop and all of these things are kind of restricted. So I try to… Dived and dodged things as I can. But we do what we can. We’re in a pandemic. I’m not being too hard on myself, but there are a lot of things that you can’t do anymore because of health and sanitation. But yeah, overall, the zero waste movement is still alive and well, it’s just kind of pivoting right now and holding off until we can actually get back to our practices again. So yeah, it’s kind of like we’re holding our breath and trying to make it through.

Tori:

Yeah. I think one of the most famous things, infamous maybe, about zero waste is the straws. And it’s actually… I did not plan this. I got my straw kit.

Moji:

Like it’s new.

Tori:

That I got for Christmas from my mom. But if I remember our conversations correctly, you are… Are you against the straw? There’s a beef you have with straws.

Moji:

Yeah. So I think that it’s just not… The conversation hasn’t been nuanced enough about the whole stop using straw-

Tori:

Talk to me.

Moji:

Yes, don’t use the straw if you don’t have to. That’s great. But what was happening is that restaurants and all food establishments were starting to ban plastic straws left and right, because they wanted to like take this thing and run with it, which is great that they wanted to make this change. But what it does is it leaves out a whole community of disabled people who need straws to consume things. And so they had some caveats where you could ask for a straw and you could still get one, but then it puts the burden on people with different abilities to have to convince you that they need one or ask for one and it just makes it really uncomfortable and it’s not accessible. And so trying to create ways where we are thinking about not just what’s good for the environment, but how can we keep all kinds of people in mind when we’re making these habit changes.

Tori:

Hmm. Yeah. It’s a great point. And it’s something if you’re able-bodied that you might not think about.

Moji:

Right, exactly. So I have my reusable straw. That’s not a problem, but I want other people to have access to what they need too.

Tori:

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Tori:

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Tori:

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Tori:

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Tori:

We talked about this a bit earlier. Again, we found a statistic about these lack of filters in schools. And so the air pollution is literally making children less intelligent, which of course can affect their financial earning power over time. And we mentioned this kind of with China. If you are breathing in bad air, if you’re in a [inaudible 00:32:15] environment, you are less likely to have better economic prospects. So what are some ways in addition to that you see the environmental degradation of the planet already affecting our money and our wallets.

Moji:

Yeah. So that leads into the conversation about environmental racism and where that stuff happens. I grew up in a nice bougie suburb of Detroit where we didn’t think about air quality or water quality because it was always great. But when I graduated college, I worked in the north end of Milwaukee in a public school and in a ninth grade classroom. And it was upwards of 90% black students. And then like a small community of Asian students. And they had high levels of lead in the water. And it was just a thing that we knew existed and no one was doing anything about. And that lead was causing developmental issues in a lot of the students, which, like you said, affects people’s ability to earn things in the long term. So environmental racism is what that looks like. Certain people, black and brown communities have to deal with these burdens unfairly. And so it’s even further creating these divides in economic and social progression.

Tori:

Well, like Flint, Michigan, just down-

Moji:

Yeah, exactly. And that’s the big one. Yeah, absolutely.

Tori:

Of not having clean water, not having access to these resources, which it’s not access to anything crazy. It’s just-

Moji:

Yeah. It’s water.

Tori:

The basic necessities of life, which is safety and food and clean water to drink and cook with. And that has, again, lasting effects on individuals, but also on the economic growth of a society if we’re not able to give people safety.

Moji:

Yeah. And we were talking earlier about the cost, what’s the cost of making these changes? What’s the cost of leaving all of these communities out of the equation? We’re not considering them when we’re thinking about who’s going to move forward and build this country? That doesn’t make any sense. It’s a better investment to care about these things.

Tori:

Right. Again, it’s the right thing to do even [crosstalk 00:34:32].

Moji:

Right. That too.

Tori:

Yeah. It’s very easy when you’re talking about the economy to think and to not see individuals and see people. And so doing something that saves money on taxes or lowers the GDP, it’s like, “Yeah. But at what cost to people, especially to black and brown people?” So to piggyback off of that, as a black woman in a very, as you said, kind of rich white lady movement, what do you have to deal with that maybe a white person talking about zero waste doesn’t have to deal with?

Moji:

Yeah. So I actually had it… They happened this week at a conference where…

Tori:

[inaudible 00:35:22]. Did you post about this? Where is it-

Moji:

Yeah, very briefly. I didn’t go into it, but it was a conference about sustainability and I was one of maybe a handful of people of color at the conference. And so I tuned in early before my speaking session to just tune in and watch. And it was a panel of a couple of white people and one black person and only the person of color on the panel, only the black man was talking about race and colonialism and culture and how that intersects with the environment. Everyone else is talking about carbon emission metrics and water goals and all of these really great things, but not even touching anything to do with being a black and brown at all. And so I see that a lot of people either don’t want to touch it, that they keep it 10 feet away because it’s like, “Ooh, that seems a little complex. I don’t want to get into the whole race conversation.”

Moji:

But it’s totally integral to what we’re doing. if we want to create a more sustainable world, it’s also a more equitable world. And so what’s inequitable right now is how black and brown people in America are being treated. So we have to talk about this in order to create solutions. And so I was just sitting there like “Is no one white going to talk about this.” And I feel like that a lot. Do I always have to bring this up? Or can white people just like do it sometimes?

Tori:

[inaudible 00:36:50]. And then it’s on you to bring it up. And then how potentially are you viewed then? Oh, here’s this “Angry, quote-unquote, Black woman.” Or [inaudible 00:37:02]. If you don’t have white people talking about it, it’s might maybe not a true issue, which of course it is.

Moji:

Or you’re derailing the conversation. That’s not what we’re talking about today. You’re just supposed to talk about trash. No, it has to always be inclusive. I absolutely see that happening. And my whole goal is to make sure that I’m always being disruptive about that. If you’re not talking about it, I’m going to bring it up. We can’t talk ab
out this topic without talking about race and all of the root causes of all of these power imbalances.

Tori:

Yeah. It’s uncomfy. I’m sorry.

Moji:

Yeah. It’s okay. I mean, it’s not okay but dealing with that.

Tori:

Yeah. And I imagine when you’re in spaces that are predominantly white, these things feel more novel. And I imagine there’s not a lot of sustainability conferences aimed at the black and brown community, is that accurate?

Moji:

They’re not really conference. They’re more of community groups who are doing this [inaudible 00:38:04]. And are actually doing this work much better than most of the [inaudible 00:38:08] are.

Tori:

Oh, I’m shocked.

Moji:

But they’re just so underfunded. They under-resourced. People don’t pay attention because they’re just like, “Oh, they’re doing whatever black people do over there.” It seems very like there’s a huge disconnect between what black people, and other people of color too, but I’m just speaking to my own experience, what we consider sustainable and then what the mainstream considers sustainable. There’s this weird divide. And we really need to bridge that gap somehow.

Tori:

You’re saying a divide between the narratives or how zero waste is talked about or is it the actual practices that feel different?

Moji:

I think it’s both. I think it’s the way we talk about it. Sometimes people come to me and they’re like, “I just want to reduce my trash as much as possible” and stop there. They don’t want to talk about anything else having to do with sustainability. And so what I try to do at least with my clients is have people think about, it’s not just like “Let’s recycle this better. And then we’ll all be happy.” It’s how can you redistribute your wealth and the stuff that you have. If you’re creating excess of something, how can you redistribute that to people who don’t have that something? Think about how you can solve social issues. How can you create jobs? How can you add value to your community? So it’s more than just like, “Let’s send it to the right bin.” That’s not what zero waste is. It’s so much deeper than that.

Tori:

What number recyclable is this and where should it go?

Moji:

Yes, we can. But we also don’t. Let’s get deeper than that.

Tori:

Yeah. And you mentioned your clients, so your work is largely with small businesses and making them more sustainable. If you are a small bus business owner who’s listening, what advice would to them? What are maybe three things that they can do to be more sustainable that are more cost effective and aren’t super crazy expensive?

Moji:

Yeah. So I would say, first of all, just notice what you notice, because I can’t give you a blanket solution. If I told you “Everyone get a solar panel today,” that’s not realistic or maybe applicable.

Tori:

And that’s what I do with clients, the money too, of, like, “I can’t. There’s no one size fits all solution, for [inaudible 00:40:26] finance, it’s personal,” and we also can’t make changes until you know what’s going on, until you get honest with yourself about what’s happening. I love that.

Moji:

So that noticing piece and how I do that with my clients is something called a waste audit. So what I do is I dig through people’s trash. I analyze it. I understand it. It’s really super fun. Please hire me to do that.

Tori:

Hire me to dig through your trash. Does that seem… Obviously you have clients, you have business. I would let you probably because you’re a friend, but that seems very intimate.

Moji:

Yeah. Yeah. There’s definitely some pushback. People are just like, “I don’t want you looking at my stuff,” but I tried help people [crosstalk 00:41:08].

Tori:

But people say that about money. They’re like, “I don’t want you looking at my…” That’s so funny because for me, I’m like, “Oh, I’ll talk about money all day long.” Like, “Oh, you’re going to look at the shit I throw away? [inaudible 00:41:16]. I don’t know why that makes me uncomfortable.”

Moji:

It is really intimate though. I learned so much about people by what they throw away. So it’s true but what I-

Tori:

A stack of tampons and the-

Moji:

Sometimes. It’s usually just packaging materials and paper. I guess, usually not that intimate. Just understanding what you throw away in the first place. So for some clients it’s packaging up the wazoo. So how can you shift away from bubble wrap to maybe paper products? What can you do to make that shift? Or maybe some time you’re a maker and you make a product, what excess pieces come off of that and how can you reuse that? So that would be the first step, is just notice what you notice. And then I would say from there is just start with one thing, don’t try and do it overnight. Don’t try to fix it all. Just pick one thing and be like, “Okay, over the next month, I’m just going to dry us this one issue and then go from there.” So small shifts, simple shifts. That’s what I advise people to do.

Tori:

It’s literally how I view money too.

Moji:

I know we’re the same that way.

Tori:

You want to start investing, you want to pay off debt and you also want to save an emergency fund and you also want to buy a house? That’s super overwhelming. So you got to start with one, you go start with the emergency fund. That way it doesn’t feel like you’re climbing Mount Everest. You’re not looking at this mountain being like, “How the fuck do I climb this thing?”

Moji:

Exactly.

Tori:

71% of waste is produced by the top 100 companies. Is there a way that we, as consumers, can vote with our dollars to shift this?< /p>

Moji:

Yes and no, because there’s only so much the individual can do. And that’s kind of where I got to on my own personal zero waste journey.

Tori:

Yeah. Tell me more about that.

Moji:

Yeah. I started in 2017 just bringing my bags to the grocery store, bringing my own jars to the bulk section, all of these really simple things that I can do on a regular basis. But then I was looking at my favorite coffee shop and seeing the dumpster behind their building just filled with all of these plastic cups and all of these things. And it’s like, “Okay, I bring my own mug, but that doesn’t help the grander scheme of things.” So do what you can on an individual basis, that’s amazing. Please keep doing that. But it’s also talking to these businesses and telling them we won’t accept what they’re doing right now.

Moji:

So if you are into fashion, for example, and you see a fast fashion company that can… You love their styles, you love what they’re doing, but they’re not paying their [inaudible 00:43:50] workers anything, say something to them, be like, “I love you. But I don’t want to buy from you until you fix this thing.” And get your friends together to do it with you and then see where it goes. Creating these movements that you don’t have to be an activist in the traditional sense. It’s just getting a group of people together and making something happen. So there’s the voting with your dollar on an individual level, but also building momentum with people and trying to get people to actually change those systems.

Tori:

Yeah. I think we look, especially at climate change, and we go, “This problem is so much bigger than me” and it makes you want to curl up in a ball and just throw up. And tough question but do individual choices actually make an impact?

Moji:

Yes. I believe that they do. And I think that it’s not just individuals alone, it’s in combination with movements. So whatever you’re passionate about in terms of sustainability, there is a organization, there is a group of people on the internet or in real life that are working on that problem, find them and join them. That’s the best advice I can give you. So it seems like this one thing that I’m bringing my own straw, what does that do? Sure, it’s great but what does that really do? And in the large scheme of things, really, it doesn’t do much, but it takes out that one piece of plastic that you don’t need to use otherwise. And it just at least shifts your mindset into thinking about this thing in a more deep way. It has to always be both together, the individual and the systemic change.

Tori:

I mean, we’re talking about straws and of course I’ve heard focusing on a plant-based diet, eating less or no meat, trying to walk or bike rather than drive. There’s a big one, which is basically stop having children. So have no children or fewer children. Do you think we should focus our efforts on things like this? Or are we focusing on a whole lifestyle rather than reducing the amount of people on earth?

Moji:

Hmm. That is a really good question. Honestly, I can’t tell you, I do not have kids like that. If you want to have kids, have kids.

Tori:

I’m not asking you to-

Moji:

No, no, no. Yeah. And I don’t think-

Tori:

It feels like straws, all of these small things are great. And then also there seems to be this almost guilt, at least, that I feel. That we’re having this collective guilt around… It’s almost like we’re doing these little things to make ourselves feel better about the fact that I’m still going to go on a plane. And I don’t know if I’ll have children yet, but I still might have children. There’s these big, big, big things. And then when you zoom out even further, you’re like, “Yeah, but it’s still corporations that are causing the majority of this. So why should I feel quote-unquote ‘punished’ if I want to have a kid and feel like I can’t.” I don’t know if I have a question here, but it just seems we have have these of course smaller things and then we have these bigger issues that also go into actual, huge lifestyle shifts or the life-altering decisions. And then you zoom out even further and it’s like, “What the fuck does it matter anyway?”

Moji:

You’re right.

Tori:

I don’t know if I’m right. I don’t know. It’s something that I’ve thought of more and more about, because I actually have conversations. Christine will be on the show, my best friend, Christine, and we had an hour and a half long conversation about… And this is super, super intimate and vulnerable, but is having children, your own children, selfish? Both for other reasons but predominantly knowing… And again, this is not a judgment statement but just thinking about that. Is having children, especially your own and not adopting or anything like that… Is having children selfish, knowing what we know? I don’t know.

Moji:

It’s really tough because there are these misconceptions that overpopulation is the problem. We have too many people on this planet and we need to have less kids, save the earth. And I don’t think that’s fully accurate. And I think that’s a little bit problematic to put that guilt on people like you’re saying. What the real problem is that we distribute resources really inequitably. So I believe, and I think that there’s actually scientific evidence behind it, that we have enough stuff on this planet to feed, cloth, water, everything. We have enough.

Tori:

And I’ve heard the stat, that we have enough food in the United States, but still, what is it? One in three children go hungry.

Moji:

I think 25% of food goes to waste before it even gets to go grocery stores. It’s wild. And so we have the stuff, we have all the things that we need. We’re just having really inefficient systems around it. So if you want to have kids, have kids. If you want to adopt, adopt, whatever. But it’s just thinking about it’s not your individual fault that we have this messed up situation and you not having kids or having kids or whatever you choose is not going to drastically affect it. It’s just thinking about, “Okay, I’m going to have this kid, what can I do to kind of make this as sustainable as possible? So can I go further and buy reused clothes for this kid? What else can I do?” I don’t want to make you shift your lifestyle in a way that you’re unhappy, because that in itself is unsustainable, but what can you do to be happy and be nice to the planet?

Tori:

A good friend of mine and I went to a play a couple years ago. God, I wish I knew in the name of it, but it’s a gorgeous play about this couple who basically are trying to decide if they should have kids or not because of climate change. And it’s this beautiful conversation about it. And I don’t want to spoil it, but if you ever get a chance to see it… They put it on, I think, it’s Seattle. Was it Seattle Rep or…? I’m trying to remember, but it’s a great look at just the intimacy of that conversation and the ethics around it and your own wants versus global-

Moji:

The greater good.

Tori:

Right, right, right. And so highly recommend it. Yeah, it’s a play called Lungs and it’s beautiful. And it’s really interesting. Yeah.

Moji:

And I think that another thing to add is how people think about what does the future look like for our kids? What future are we creating? There have to be some people to take this forward. It’s like, “What are you trying to build? Are you trying to build that next eco warrior who’s going to be creating all these new awesome technologies. That’s great. Are you going to create the next new activist? That’s cool too.” Just thinking about what does that look like for the future for yourself?

Tori:

Yeah. I don’t know how much you know about this, but something I didn’t even think about until we started researching, there’s going to be an estimated 23 trillion in damage to the financial system as a result of climate change. And specifically there’s a lot of businesses like insurance companies that are likely to fail. Is there a way to protect or implement solutions to guard against this what seems inevitable, this fallout?

Moji:

So again, I’m not an expert in that topic, but from what I understand-

Tori:

I’m asking huge question.

Moji:

Yeah. No, you’re good. You’re going to need to follow with someone else who knows. But what I do know is that we think about sustainability as this kind of we got to fix all these things that we’ve messed up, but there’s also these practices that have worked for eons that indigenous cultures all over the world have been doing. So things like preserving certain species of, for example, salmon here in the Pacific Northwest, protects ecosystems, which then protects certain natural barriers that protect against these kind of natural disasters. It’s, again, all interconnected. We just need to return to those ways of being, and listen to the people who have been telling us what the problem is for forever. That brings in the whole listening to indigenous people and trusting that they actually know what they’re talking about because they do. And so what can we implement that will return us to that way of being. So we see sea level rise that are washing away entire beach communities. All that stuff can’t be prevented at this point, but what can we do to protect that stuff in the future?

Tori:

As a lay person, I think about the bees. I hear about the bees all the time. The bees are dying and if the bees die we’re fucked.

Moji:

Yeah. It’s true.

Tori:

Is it true? Is it accurate?

Moji:

I mean, yeah. The bees-

Tori:

Talk to me about the bees. [inaudible 00:52:29].

Moji:

Actually, so I have this really cute thing where my business cards are plantable paper and they have wild flowers in them to support pollinators. The bees are the foundation of our entire agriculture system, because they cross-pollinate all of the plants, which help our food grow. So if we don’t have pollinators, we don’t have food. And so, protecting-

Tori:

She says it casually. If the bees die, we don’t have food to eat. But it’s on a shirt, Moji. The bees die, we starve. That’ll get people’s attention. I love it for that. They’re going to be like “Yes, I want to talk to her at the [inaudible 00:53:09] party.”

Moji:

No. I try to approach all this stuff with optimism and fun. But it is true.

Tori:

Well, you are one of those optimistic, happy people I know.

Moji:

But yeah, we do want to protect the bees and all the pollinators.

Tori:

[inaudible 00:53:21] and starve.

Moji:

So it’s just a thing you want to do and make sure that we don’t make these systems collapse. It’s a lot. Don’t get overwhelmed.

Tori:

No. And I’m thinking, but how? And you’ve given us, but how, in many ways. I hear that and I’m like, “How am I going to save the bees?”

Moji:

This goes right back to your point about “I want to do retirement and buy a house and emergency fund.” We’re not going to save the planet-

Tori:

[inaudible 00:53:50]. I want to make sure the coral reefs are still here.

Moji:

Right. And you as Tori, one person, can’t do that. You know this. Don’t stress yourself out. You can take one or two things, go hard in those one or two things. And then just do that. If you’re going a hundred percent, what is the Parks and Rec quote? Don’t have half-ass a bunch of things.

Tori:

Oh, don’t half-ass two things, whole-ass one thing.

Moji:

Exactly, do that. If you’re into zero waste, go hard. Follow me on Instagram and we can go hard on zero waste. But if you’re into other things, do that.

Tori:

I’m trying to think what my sustainability thing would be.

Moji:

I feel like it’s money and like economic-

Tori:

< p class=”” style=”white-space:pre-wrap;”>”Is that enough?” Quote-unquote. I don’t know.

Moji:

Oh, yeah. If everybody was financially stable that gives us so much more room to do everything else. So absolutely you’re part of the sustainability solutions. You’re on it.

Tori:

Almost like you prove my thesis for me. Thank you. It’s almost like money is completely connected to every part of our society. It’s almost like I say that all the time and then I need somebody to tell me that. No, you’re right. You’re right. We’ve proven that over the last hour, when you have economic foundation, or not even economic, financial foundation, personal finance foundation, you can support sustainable companies or to donate to causes you believe in or freaking put a beehive in your front yard if you want to do that.

Moji:

You want to that? Do that.

Tori:

I see. I think there’s a couple people in TikTok that are beekeepers. Have you seen these?

Moji:

Oh no. Not yet.

Tori:

Oh. There’s one person. I think, they’re in Texas. I’ll try to… Again, I’ll link it in show notes. I’ll try to send it to you. But she rescues bees. Because bees will take over people’s and shit. And so I guess she got… This video, that went viral that I saw, she got this call from this man who had, I think it was a shed and bees had overtaken the shed and he didn’t want to call an exterminator because he knew how important bees were. And so she literally came out, she was not wearing bee gear at all and she was not wearing beekeeping-

Moji:

Oh, I love it. She’s like [inaudible 00:55:47].

Tori:

And she was like… Yes.

Moji:

Yes. I saw that.

Tori:

She was [inaudible 00:55:50] up floorboards. And then she was like, “Oh, I found the queen and there’s the queen. I had to get the queen in. And once I got the queen in, everybody followed her in.” It was the coolest video. There’s got to be something out there. Do you know what slow TV is? Have we talked about this?

Moji:

No.

Tori:

So slow TV, I think it was Sweden. They will like strap a camera to the front of a train and literally just broadcast 16 hours of this train going through snowy mountains on their ABC or PBS equivalent. They will literally put it on cable for six hours.

Moji:

That’s my dream.

Tori:

And then there was this another video I think they did of this person making a bench and woodworking. And so they call it slow TV of just… And I think it was Sweden. It was one of the… I think the country is Scandinavia but people lost their minds. One third of the people in the country watched this slow TV. And so I would watch slow TV of bees. That’s my roundabout. I would literally just watch… I would put that on my… While I’m reading or while I’m working, I’d watch bee colonies.

Moji:

Yes. It makes me think of… So when we talk about sustainability, they were talking about health and like wellbeing and financial security. There’s also the just slowing down of the pace that we move in our society. And so making space for rest as an individual is part of your sustainability practice. If you have not taken a nap this week, schedule time for nap and get that on your schedule.

Tori:

Tell me why that’s sustainable.

Moji:

So when we’re going, going, going at this insane pace. We are working eight hours a day, we come home, we’re making dinner. We’re doing all of these things. Where do we have space to breathe? Where do we have space to notice? It’s just the pace at which we move is more and more and more, faster, faster, faster. That’s part of this culture of consuming to consume and not paying attention to what we buy. And so what happens if we just take a bee, slow down, take a day to think about our purchases, take some time to replenish ourselves, make sure that we feel good, that we’re getting what we need. All of that is part of, at least, my personal sustainability. And burn out, stressed out people can’t make a difference and they can’t keep their shit together. So it’s just being as healthy as you possibly can be by slowing down.

Tori:

Well, Moji that’s a beautiful point. Because when I think about when we are hectic. The perfect example is I bought a prepackaged thing because I didn’t have time to cook dinner which is okay. Every once in a while it happens. But doing that all the time… Or I went to Starbucks and I… Are they doing reusable cups now with COVID? I don’t even know if they are-

Moji:

I think they’re starting it again soon.

Tori:

Yeah. Perfect example of, pre-COVID, maybe I was busy to pack my cup or I forgot it. Or you have a wedding next week and didn’t plan on what you were going to wear. So you couldn’t be intentional and figure out sizing and things that were going to be sustainable, that were going to fit. So you’re like, “Okay, I’ll just go to target.”

Moji:

Or like “I’ll buy two” or whatever your budget allows. Just getting things so fast and it’s just… I’m not perfect. It’s very much a practice of me having to remind myself, did you take time to rest? Did you cancel that meeting that you don’t actually need to be at? Making that space for yourself so that you can make sure that you’re able to move at a pace that works for you?

Tori:

Yeah. So climate change is happening and that’s what sucks, but it’s happening. Is there any way that you would recommend protecting ourselves retroactively instead of proactively from its effects?

Moji:

So there are so many different ways that climate change is going to affect us. And so I don’t want us to get overwhelmed by all of these, but paying attention to, like I said, one or two. So let’s think about just something that’s simple, that I think that we’ve all been doing at least during COVID is ordering lots of takeout. So that i
s amazing. I have been doing that all of the time, just support my local businesses. I have been ordering takeout at least twice a week for a while. It’s great, but that’s not sustainable for me to continue in the future. And so how can I slowly shift my behaviors to a way that’s still supporting those businesses, but finding ways to get back into using my reusable containers or going into restaurants or whatever I’m comfortable with as we kind of open back up. But it’s just slowly shifting our habits and paying attention to the little things we can change and going from there. Small, simple shifts and paying attention are my biggest pieces of advice.

Tori:

Yeah. I have been ordering poke almost weekly and they would never pack chopsticks. And so I just bought reusable chopsticks. Well, and I’m going to be honest, it was not a sustainability choice. They always forget to pack me chopsticks and I need a pair of chopsticks for-

Moji:

That works too though. It ends up being a sustainability thing on accident. That’s perfect.

Tori:

I hate eating poke with a fork. I’m like, [inaudible 01:01:15].

Moji:

[inaudible 01:01:16].

Tori:

So my last question for you is, and we’ve given so many examples already, but if you had just a couple different zero waste or sustainable things that somebody could implement in their life either today or this week in order to be on the journey to zero waste or be on the journey to a more sustainable life.

Moji:

Yeah. So I would say if you’re comfortable with it and you’re excited about it, do a trash audit in your home. Even just peek into the trash bin and pick out five things that you can see at the top of the trash can and be like, “Could I have done this differently? You see a take out container, “Could I have done this differently?” And just ask yourself that question. Start there. I think doing your money diary and adding in the sustainability aspect of it could be really helpful. Did I feel happy about the-

Tori:

I love the tie in, Moji. Yes.

Moji:

Yeah. So did I feel happy about this purchase and how is this effect on the planet? Can I tell or do I know? What do I know about the sustainability of the thing that I bought here? And just kind of start asking yourself those questions.

Moji:

And then I would say just really getting your financial foundation down so that you can make these bigger investments. So if you are able to get yourself out of debt, get yourself your emergency fund, start investing and you’re good, you’ve done those basic. Can you spend more on your clothing budget to support sustainable brands? Can you invest in sustainable stock options? Can you give money to your local mutual aid groups? What can you do more than what you’re already doing once you’re stable?

Tori:

I lied. I have one more question for you. Not as a sustainability consultant, but as someone who has been on a financial journey the past couple years, how are your finances different now? What decisions have you made that have impacted your money the most?

Moji:

Yeah, that’s a really great question. And it’s really funny coming from you because you started my financial journey. So it’s just full circle. So my first goal when I started working with you was to get my emergency fund down. So I was trying to leave my full-time job. And so I was trying to get my money all squirreled away and work on my business full-time. And so I got that six month number. I was quitting. I didn’t have any debt, so I was good. And then I started getting my Roth IRA set up and I was like, “Okay, okay. I’m doing in the thing. I’ve got it.” And so now when I look at my money, I’m supporting businesses just to financially support them. So I have some friends that have sustainable startups, but I don’t necessarily need the product that they’re selling, but I’m signed up to it because I want their business to succeed.

Moji:

So I spend that extra cash that I have that I’m not using on whatever goal I had before and just giving it to things that I really care about. So that’s one thing. And then the other thing is I spend more, probably than the average person on things like my groceries that I buy from a really local organic farm, but I want that stuff to thrive. So I’m able to spend more on things that I could would technically buy cheaper, but I’m spending more money on them because I truly want them to succeed and I believe in them. So I’m able to make those choices because I’m financially stable. What we’re trying to say here is you got to have that foundation first.

Tori:

And I think you also pay rent to the Duwamish people locally here in Seattle.

Moji:

Yeah. I don’t do that every month, but every six months or so, I send a big donation that I can afford and pay for rent on the Duwamish land. So yeah, just having that extra cash to throw around without really thinking about it is the goal for me.

Tori:

Yeah. And if you’re not local to the Seattle area, the Duwamish tribe is a group of native people here in the Seattle area. And so there is this huge push, I’m sure in other cities too, but in Seattle to pay quote-unquote, “The real rent” of paying your normal rent to your mortgage while also contributing money to the native people whose land we’re on. It’s the Testament to what I’m trying to do, of when you have money and we’re not talking Jeff Bezos money. We’re not talking Scrooge McDuck swimming in pools of money. We’re just talking about you’re not living paycheck to paycheck. You have some flexibility with your finances. You are building wealth for yourself and other people, you have choices. You get to quit your job to fucking run your business full-time. You get pay rent to native tribes. You get to donate to the causes you believe in. You get to support businesses. You get to have takeout from a local business that might be more… Or a local restaurant that might be more expensive, but you know where your money’s going.

Moji:

And I want to be super transparent at the end here too, with what we mean by having enough money. And I’m not going to give you my exact salary because I’m not comfortable with that. But I’m making less money than I was when I was working full-time in my engineering job. I’m making less than I was four years ago when I was doing that. And I’m still having this extra money to throw around. So this is the least amount I’ve made in my adult life, but I still have able to figure out a way to give money. So we don’t have to be
making six figures, millions of dollars. It’s really just having enough for yourself. And then the extra can go to what you care about.

Tori:

Right. Moji, where can people find you?

Moji:

You can find me on Instagram at hippieMoji. That’s where I’m most active and most talkative. Oh, I think one thing to add is that if you are a business and or you work for a business and you’re thinking about zero waste in the workplace, I have a free guide on my website. It’s bluedaisi.com/freeguide. And you can put it in the show notes, but it’s a five step roadmap on how you can get to zero waste. And if you already know what it takes to take zero waste, but your boss doesn’t really care about it, use that as a tool to convince them that I need to do it. So if I can help in anyway, please reach out.

Tori:

Moji thanks for being here. Love you.

Tori:

I took away so much from this episode and I don’t just want to talk the talk. I want walk the walk. So here are three sustainable habits I’m committing to, and I’m saying them out loud. I’m saying them to thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to commit. Number one, I will save leftover veggie pieces like heads of bell peppers or ends of celery stocks. And I will put them in as zip block bag in my freezer to make veggie stock. So I don’t have to buy it. That’s my first commitment. My second commitment. Now that we’re allowed to, again, I’m going to bring my reusable bags to the grocery store and make sure I pack them every time. Because I forget them all the time. And finally, I’m going to start showering with a bucket in the tub so it can catch any that comes down and I can use it for my 55 plants in my apartment.

Tori:

I want you to commit to three sustainable habits. Think about it, write it down, then share it with us on social media. Like Moji said, it doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be big, but you do need to make an effort. So I’m committing to these three habits. I would love to know your three. Y’all were coming up on the last two episodes in season one of Financial Feminist. What a season. What a way to start this movement? What a way to kick off Financial Feminist, the podcast. Again, y’all have been so supportive. Keep liking and subscribing. If you want more information about what we’ve discussed in this episode, more information about Moji, myself and this show check out our detailed show notes at financialfeministpodcast.com. I can’t wait to see you back here next week financial feminists. Last week of season one. Talk to you soon.

Tori:

Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist. Financial Feminist is produced and hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Theme song and audio production by Jonah Cohen Sound. Administration and marketing by Olivia Kolkana, Sophia Cohen and Kristen Fields. Research by Arielle Johnson. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton and photography by Sarah Wolfe. And huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminists, Her First $100K, our guests and our sponsors go to financialfeministpodcast.com.