What does a former Disney star have in common with a porn star? In this case — they’re the same person.
Meet Maitland Ward. Model, cosplay personality, former Disney and soap opera actress turned adult porn star. In this interview, she opens up about her path from child star to adult star, including all of the experiences that have shaped her journey along the way — from being overly sexualized as a child actress to the misconceptions that people have about the porn industry.
“I really think that’s what being in porn has given me. It’s given me the freedom of taking power, control, freedom back with my own body and how I want to use it and how it benefits me.”
She explains that as a model and actress when she was on sets and under the direction of various producers and photographers, she felt as though her body and her actions were being controlled by someone else for the benefit of someone else. And she wants people to understand that women aren’t giving their power up by doing porn. They’re actually taking their power back.
“When I was being sexualized or being used on shows, they were benefiting from everything, and now I get to take control of my brand, my body, and my sexuality, and benefit myself by building a business and a name from that.”
Maitland also prefaces this by making a clear distinction that she’s referring to adult women who have chosen this as a profession.
Can porn be feminist?
According to Maitland — yes.
She describes what she classifies as pornography to be material that is professionally produced by a studio or company that hires talent to create it. NOT “two guys making some terrible video with a girl out in the woods.” She shares that most of what you see on sites like PornHub that is violent and degrading, are not from reputable companies, and agrees that it gives the industry a bad name. The more those types of porn are elevated — unverified uploads, no rules/protocols, untested participants, then the harder it is for legitimate and professional pornography to be taken seriously AND the harder it is for women in the industry in general.“
So…what about porn makes it feminist?
In Maitland’s opinion, anything that’s fun and consensual on the woman’s side and she enjoys.
“That’s an empowering thing because think about in the world how much we don’t get to agree to…and sexually, how many women are told to do things, are forced to do things. But to be able to say, “Listen, I like my hair pulled. Do it like this and do it in this way. F*ck me this way. This is great. So I feel like that is really empowering.”
Maitland educates listeners on some of the typical protocols that are required on a professional porn set for the major companies, including:
- Full testing (blood, urine, etc) every two weeks
- Two forms of ID verification before sex scenes
- Signed statements that you are not under the influence of anything or anyone
- Verifying each participants “no’s” lists (things they are unwilling to do)
“I think people think, oh, everybody has got STDs, everybody’s drugged, it couldn’t be much further from the truth.”
Tori goes on to ask about other misconceptions people have about the industry, including the stereotype of the “sleazy director,’ and Maitland explains that her primary director that she’s worked with many times, is actually a woman (Kayden Kross). She goes on to share how so many more women are now directing and producing porn and how different the experience is as an actress and as a viewer to watch porn directed by a woman.
“I think we (women) really understand that it’s not just the old thing of just point and shoot them having sex. You need all of the elements of sight, sound, taste, the feeling of all of that to really have this full experience. Kayden is the front-runner of all this, but there are many other female directors who have been in the game and have done amazing work and also who are coming up as younger directors.”
Maitland and Tori continue their conversation about the porn industry and how sites like OnlyFans have helped contribute to her massive success and the success of other influencers in this episode.
Maitland’s Links:
Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me From Hollywood
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Meet Maitland
Maitland Ward is an award-winning adult film star, actress, model, and cosplay personality. Best known for her role as Rachel McGuire on Boy Meets World, Maitland enjoyed a successful career as a Hollywood actress before making the slow transition into the adult industry. She has been a guest on Good Morning America, Entertainment Tonight, and more. Her writing has appeared on The Daily Beast. Rated X is her first book. Follow her on Twitter and Instagram @MaitlandWard.
Transcript:
Maitland Ward:
And that people are worried like, “Oh, would they shut down porn? Would there be nothing?” And he said, “No. They’ll always be porn. These people in politics and higher ups, they want to watch it. They just don’t want to watch women be successful at it.”
Tori Dunlap:
Hello, Financial Feminists. Welcome to the sexiest episode of this show that we’ve ever done. Hi, everybody. My name is Tori. I am a money expert, I am obviously a podcast host, I am a New York Times bestselling author, and I’m here to fight the patriarchy by making you rich. We talk on this show about how money affects women differently and how we can get more money into more women’s hands and also all the feminist issues that exist in the world through the lens of personal finance and money.
If you’re an oldie but a goodie, you already knew that. Welcome back to the show. Massive content warning, off the top here, if you are listening… I mean hopefully you didn’t click on this episode and think like, “Oh, this would be great. This would be great for a good old family listen.” But I just want to be so clear this is not one to put on the workplace Spotify, this is not one to listen to with your children or your grandma. This is just a massive content warning right off the top. We are talking about sex and pornography today.
And if either of those things immediately make you uncomfortable, then I would actually really encourage you to listen because we have a really interesting, incredibly important conversation today about all of those things with one of the best people in the business to talk to. Maitland Ward is an award-winning adult film star, actress model, and cosplay personality. Best known for her role as Rachel McGuire on Boy Meets World. Maitland enjoyed a successful career as a Hollywood actress before making the slow transition into the adult industry.
She has been a guest on Good Morning America, Entertainment Tonight and more. Her writing has appeared on The Daily Beast and Rated X: How Porn Liberated Me from Hollywood is her first book out, wherever you get your books. We sat down with Maitland because there is so much misinformation and stigma around porn and sometimes for good reason. And even in our research, most of the data about porn comes from evangelical or religious organizations, which obviously have their own point of view, so even finding accurate statistics from nonpartisan sources was difficult when we were preparing for this episode.
Maitland shares about her start in acting on shows like Boy Meets World and the Bold and the Beautiful, and how she transitioned into working in adult films by creating her own content. First, we discussed how both of our views on the porn industry have evolved and the misconceptions people have about the industry. Maitland also discusses what it’s like to create her own content and the empowerment and financial independence it has given her.
She’s also one of the highest paid actresses in pornography. And again, if just the word porn makes you a little uncomfortable, I totally get it. We also dive into her relationship with a director who is also a woman and how they have really worked together to create what they believe is really empowering content and also focused on getting money into women’s hands and controlling the narrative.
I will also say too, just to spoil it right off the top, I think there’s so many misconceptions about what we think the actual shooting of pornography looks like or that the people who choose to go into the porn industry are somehow not well. And we talk about just how rigorous it is to actually shoot one of these scenes, the amount of consent that has to be confirmed. She talks more about that process, but it kind of shocked me in a good way of just how much goes into making sure that everybody is comfortable with anything they’re doing on set. And so we talk more about that as well.
A reminder, again, this is a not safe for work episode, but one that is incredibly important for you to listen to that maybe just gives you a different perspective. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and get into it. But first a word from our sponsors.
Maitland Ward:
They say in the valley, but I have to say with the company I work with and stuff, we don’t. We actually usually shoot out of downtown LA or West Hollywood.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, interesting.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. That’s kind of like the older studio kind of thing. I mean, they still shoot a ton in the valley and stuff, but in the old days that’s all they shot.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, was there. I have friends who live in LA and it was always-
Maitland Ward:
Yeah, chats were.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. That was the joke where it’s like, “Oh, it’s over there.” We’re so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.
Maitland Ward:
Oh, I’m excited to be here. Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
Most people from my generation and maybe a little older will probably recognize you from Boy Meets World, but you were also on a soap before that.
Maitland Ward:
I was.
Tori Dunlap:
What was your journey into acting? What did that look like? What did your career look like?
Maitland Ward:
It was really a whirlwind into acting when I was very young because I was 16 when I got on the soap. I had a three-year contract on the soap. I was on The Bold and the Beautiful by the way. I was in high school and I was this innocent flower. I wanted to get into acting. I loved that part of it. Because I was such an innocent flower I guess, and I was so ashamed to be anything but that I wanted to be the good girl and live up to that image all the time, I guess acting really had an outlet for me. It was like I could play so many different characters and be so many different types of people that I could explore wanting to be or just to see different emotions that came from them and different things that I didn’t feel comfortable sharing on my own.
But I took an acting class with a casting director that was from The Bold and the Beautiful, because I had been a huge soap fan growing up. It was like my fantasy outlet. I loved all the soap guys and I just let myself get lost in Days of Our Lives and things like that.
Tori Dunlap:
I grew up watching All My Children with my mom.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. So you understand. Exactly, yeah. My mom did too.
Tori Dunlap:
My mom watched All My Children.
Maitland Ward:
Mom did too. Mom did too.
Tori Dunlap:
I went to pre-K in the morning, and so I would literally come home. I grew up on the All My Children.
Maitland Ward:
It’s so funny because my mom too. She watched As the World Turns and then I kind of watched Days, but we both did. It was a connecting kind of thing. And I could have this fantasy, so I saw that there were these… I wanted to get into acting, but I didn’t really know how, but I saw these acting workshops that were happening with casting directors and they do that a lot to make extra cash, but I had the fantasy back then. No. But I was the youngest person in the class by far 16 years old, and everybody was working actors in their 20s and 30s. And the casting director was like, “By the end of the workshop and stuff, you should audition for this role coming up because it’s for a teenage girl. We’re getting a teenage storyline.”
And I think she was surprised at how well I knew soap opera acting and soap opera cues. It’s a very specific form that you follow and everything. And I was very in tune to that. So she asked me to audition for the show and I did. It was many auditions. It took a long time, actually several months, and I didn’t necessarily think I was going to get the part, but then at the very end I was brought in for this screen test and the rest is history. I got on and I was going a couple days a week to school, my regular high school and then having a tutor on the set the rest of the time. It was like, wow. It was like a fairy tale dream come true to be on the soap set and then it was reality then.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Kristen and I both have backgrounds in theater. I majored in theater. I think Kristen did as well, and she’s still an actor as well. And so one of the things that we wanted to highlight that I think a lot of people who are not in the industry don’t understand is soap operas are incredibly hard work.
Maitland Ward:
Yes. Oh my God.
Tori Dunlap:
Because of how quickly you get a script, how quickly you have to learn it, and how fast the shooting process is. So tell me a bit about that.
Maitland Ward:
Well, we would shoot three shows in two days, and that’s insane because thinking about-
Tori Dunlap:
That’s nuts.
Maitland Ward:
… when I went to Boy Meets World and stuff, it was like we shot one a week and it was great. I wouldn’t say the easiest because you have to perform and it’s a big deal. But the schedule is the easiest, I have to say. Soaps were incredibly hard. I lucked out a bit and everybody wanted to be in my scenes because I was underage when I started it, ’16, ’17. So I got to get off early because the age limits from the law. So that part of it, I didn’t have to work the 12, 16-hour days at the beginning, but once I turned 18, I had to work all those days.
But at soaps, you have to learn 40 pages a day and you get so good at memorizing and just doing things fast, and I really believe that was what trained me for everything else. I hate to say that soaps are a training ground because they’re a real job and they’re really great actors who were on there. So basically, I was thrown into this world where I got to learn everything from very established actors who’ve been the show for 20 years and stuff, and on other shows they’ve been on for 40 years and things like that.
I just don’t think people give it the respect that they should because it is such. It’s such a hard job. It’s rewarding job. It’s got a very strong fan base, and I know I was part of that fan base and people are very loyal to you. Even though after all these years people still come up to me and say, “Wow, I remember when you were Jessica Forrester in The Bold and the Beautiful.”
I looked so different. I had long blonde hair. I was such an ingenue. Everything bad happened to me on that show. Everything. My mother had an affair with my boyfriend while I was in a diabetic coma. A guy tried to get me pregnant by poking holes in the condoms because I had the big money. I had the Forrester fortune. I don’t know how I had the Forrester fortune, I was the niece, but still. And then I found out though, and I tricked him and then I pretended I was pregnant and then he found out and he raped me and almost set me in a fire at a bikini bar.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Maitland Ward:
Jesus Christ. There was a lot. There was a lot. And I’m still really great friends with that guy today.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I was about to ask with soaps, it’s like one of two things. It’s coma and then it’s super long lost twin. Did you have a twin?
Maitland Ward:
I didn’t have a twin. No, I didn’t have a twin, but the coma was a good one. Actually, the coma is great because you just come in and you just lay in the bed and have everybody act all over you and you’re just like, I get to be cozy in this hospital bed all day.
Tori Dunlap:
There’s no lines you have to learn that day.
Maitland Ward:
No, but my hair almost got caught on fire when I passed out from the diabetic coma because it was at a wedding, of course.
Tori Dunlap:
Of course.
Maitland Ward:
It was at big wedding and I was feeling faint. I was near candles and I remember my co-star looking at me and saying, “Your hair is on fire?” I had very long hair with a lot of hairspray on it, and he was like cutting it out.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Maitland Ward:
Thankfully he did get it and it just singed me. But I was going to faint, and so I was near these candles and it was a very dramatic moment.
Tori Dunlap:
Little did we know that there was going to be a fire safety meeting that needed to happen that day. Wow.
Maitland Ward:
Exactly. I know. But nobody said anything about it. Nobody wanted to recognize I almost died on the set.
Tori Dunlap:
Right, acknowledge it. Yeah. So you started doing cosplay post Boy Meets World. Was that the transition into working in pornography?
Maitland Ward:
Yes, definitely cosplay was the transition, but it was such a longer transition than you’re thinking just past Boy Meets World. It was like there was so much time in between Boy Meets World, and when I started really getting involved in my cosplay career and starting doing content and all of that. None of that was available first when I was doing Boy Meets World or right afterwards, and then I did White Chicks and stuff.
But then the roles just really dried up and I was typecast so severely for being on Boy Meets World because it was such a popular show. I was identified, but I wasn’t the star of the show, which was a weird thing because it wasn’t like I was Ben Savage and everybody knew you as boy. It was like I was on the show and I was known, but they didn’t quite know what to do with me in Hollywood, and it was frustrating because they wanted me to remain an image that was what people were comfortable with and what I was known as on the show, kind of the Girl Next Door.
I was definitely the sexier kind of variety of a Disney character and a lot of things on the show were very, I won’t say overtly sexual, kind of very subtly sexual that if you look at it now, you’d definitely pick up on it, but back then it was more of an innocent type of show. So they wouldn’t let me play any roles that were more adult or something that I wanted to do. I’m not even talking about pornography or anything. I’m just talking about playing more sexy roles, more grownup roles, more dramatic roles.
I wanted to do that and I didn’t want to just be typecast into just doing sitcom or just doing comedy, or lighthearted or anything. I wanted to do some more dramatic things. But that still, it just wasn’t happening for me. And eventually I got married. I moved to New York. I kind of needed to get away from it all and really restart my life and think about what I wanted to do with myself because I was so frustrated with Hollywood in general, but I still loved acting and performing and all of that.
I really got into writing when I went to New York and erotic writing. Actually, that’s where I really started to explore that side of myself and things that I had suppressed in the past, bringing them up and exploring them. I felt like being away from Hollywood and that whole system where I was, it was like being trapped and watched and getting away to New York was a great outlet for me to explore myself.
But then I came back from New York and I started to go to school at UCLA for screenwriting, and I really fully, with my writing and everything, I thought that’s what I was going to do. Maybe I’d be a star in a film project that I got together or something, or maybe I just sell scripts. I was happy with doing that. I feel like all of my characters that I wrote about in my scripts mirrored me. They were always kind of a little bit sexually frustrated and the world had come against them and they had to battle it back, and I see that now. They were all very similar.
But around that time, that’s when Girl Meets World, the spinoff for Boy Meets World was picked up and we were all from Boy Meets World thrown back into that whirlwind of the show. And it’s funny because back when Boy Meets World was on, we never knew how popular it was. We knew it was a good show and it’d been on a long time and it got good ratings, but we didn’t know how much it meant to the audience or how iconic it had been. I remember just seeing the reaction from the show coming back and the interest in the cast.
Again, I remember we were all really floored by how much it had meant to people and how excited people were to have it back, but it was kind of scary for me because I was thinking, “Wait, I’ve worked to get away from this. I’ve explored my own self. I’ve said I want to do something else and now there’s all this attention.” But I was found that the attention that was focused back on me, I was able to do things that I really liked to do with it, especially with social media.
So that’s when I started doing cosplay. I always loved cosplay and I always loved Star Wars and all of the superhero stuff and fantasy stuff, but I didn’t know that there could be a career branch from that. And so when I started, I went to a Comic-Con and I would go and dress up a little bit. And then finally I did a red carpet where a photographer came up to me and said, “I have a Slave Leia costume from Star Wars for May the fourth Be With You. Do you want to do a photo shoot? It’s authentically made.” And I was like, “Yes, I’ll do it. Let’s just do it.”
I didn’t realize how popular it would be because it was all over the press the next day that I did that. And so then I really catapulted my cosplay career. And also Snapchat was actually the thing that solidified me in that world. I remember the first time I went to a Comic-Con and somebody came up to me and said, “I really love your work.” And I thought every other time I had gone, it’s like, “Oh, from Boy Meets World,” or from something. Maybe from White Chicks, maybe from something I’ve done. And they’re like, “I love you on Snapchat.” And I knew that was the first time I said, “That’s a new world.” He primarily only knew me from Snapchat.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Well, and something that wasn’t available to you when you started your career, right? Social media is a still relatively new thing and it opens up all of these potential opportunities that wasn’t available late ’90s, early 2000s. That wasn’t a thing.
Maitland Ward:
Oh, yeah. We didn’t have any connection with the audience. And that’s the thing too. That’s how we didn’t know too how much of an impact it was making. I think today, if we would go on Instagram or TikTok, or Twitter, whatever, you would see immediately how much the show impacted people and how younger people loved it and all that. But we didn’t. We had the magazines. We had a fan of it where people would line up or something, but it was not that total knowledge that these young people were really feeling that Boy Meets World was a part of their lives. And Feeny was their grandpa, and this was their show on Friday night and stuff, and how much it meant to them.
Social media was responsible once Girl Meets World came back to show us how much it meant and that’s it. I could have taken the path of saying, “Well, Girl Meets World is coming back. I’m going to just totally dive into my Boy Meets World past and completely rely on that, get a couple episodes on Girl Meets World and go back into that.” But I was just fighting that and I didn’t want to do that. So I really said to myself, “You know what? I have this audience. I have new renewed interests.” I went on the set of the pilot of Girl Meets World, and I had a picture with Bill Daniels, Mr. Feeny, and I put it up on my Instagram. And Instagram was like nothing then. It was like 900 people, 1,000 people. I don’t remember.
But I put it up and the next day people like Perez Hilton has it on his site like, “Feeny and Rachel back together again,” with this little writing. Then my Instagram grew overnight and it was like I really saw the impact of the social media there. And so I was like, “Wait, I have this audience. I’m going to be my authentic self. I’m going to do what I want to do. I’m tired of being told what to do.”
And people really responded to my cosplay. They responded to my sexy kind of fun setups that I did on the beach. I would just do all sorts of crazy things for holidays. I celebrated Star Trek Day. I did everything and I’d dress up and I’d have fun, and people really responded to that. And that’s how my social media started to snowball. And then Snapchat was the main thing that people were really watching because I could do all sorts of crazy things.
I wasn’t doing anything pornographic, but it’d have a little shadows of my nipple or little sexual things. And Snapchat would very much allow that in the beginning. They started to clamp down on me though. So Snapchat was really a free ground for me to explore and be more sexy or be more suggestive. But yeah, eventually they started taking down my pictures. And that’s how content came out. That’s how I started to get into selling content.
Tori Dunlap:
I am really intrigued and fascinated by a lot of the conversation that’s happening right now with young actors in Hollywood, how they’re being treated and the sexualization that happens to them. You experienced some of this on Boy Meet’s World, and you mentioned in your book that your character specifically had the least amount of clothes, and that sentiment really stuck out to me. And you also even mentioned in our conversation so far that because it was Disney, it wasn’t maybe overtly sexual, but it was implied sexuality.
So being in your underclothes you said didn’t really bother you, but what bothered you was the feeling that the writers were having fun at your expense. How has this changed since you moved into porn and are starting to create your own content?
Maitland Ward:
Well, it’s funny because in porn, I’ve never in a million years would create around in my lingerie in front of producers for the company ever. And I did that at Disney.
Tori Dunlap:
Hold on, I just got to stop you there. That is such a significant phrase that you just said. Significant thing of in pornography, I would not parade around for producers in lingerie, but I did on Boy Meets World for producers.
Maitland Ward:
Exactly. That’s exactly what happened for the Disney higher ups. And that’s so true. That would be insane for me and people would think, “Oh, you’re just naked in front of having sex with everybody.” There’s so much protocol in porn that I don’t think people realized, but at Disney it was just the culture back then. I don’t know how it is right now for the young people. I hope it’s better. I hope there’s more awareness to it, and I hope that people talking out about the past and about what happened, being sexualized and having problems.
And especially people who had way worse experiences than I did in that department, have given voice to that. I don’t know completely. I’m sure there’s still a lot of issues. But I have to say back in those days in the 2000s and everything, it was so much just part of the culture. I thought they were having fun at my expense, but I don’t think that anybody set out to think, “Oh, let’s trap her in this room and look at her lingerie.” It was just what happened.
It was just what you could do with actors. And you know what I have to say though, the executive producer from Boy Meets World, Michael Jacobs, we’ve had some wonderful conversations since my book came out and we have really come to terms with a lot of things right after. And I really appreciate this that he called me and we spoke for an hour and a half and we recognized things back and forth.
I really do believe all of that stuff with the lingerie and stuff came from higher ups at Disney who definitely had a stronghold on what was happening and what they wanted to see from certain people and certain shows and characters and everything. And I think we’ve seen that in other people’s stories too. But it was just the mindset back then. It was like girls were sexualized, but then they had to be very virginal at the same time.
We’re seeing it all coming out with the Britney Spear stuff and everything. She had to be this virginal queen, sexual person in these… But then she had to hide everything about herself sexually and tell everybody she’s a virgin. So that was very much the environment back then.
Tori Dunlap:
I was just having a conversation with my best friend because we’re recording this as… We literally just found out Britney Spears, what, two days ago terminated a pregnancy that was Justin Timberlake. I’m assuming when this comes out, we’ll have more information about that. But we were literally talking my best friend and I this morning about how dirty we did famous women in late ’90s, early 2000s, just how horribly we treated them, how the media scrutinized every decision they made, how they pitted women against each other. It didn’t seem like anything at the time because it was just that was normal.
Maitland Ward:
It was just the mindset. It was just normal, and that’s what it was. I mean, the way that they scrutinized women’s weight and how that was off. And these girls-
Tori Dunlap:
Do you remember that Jessica Simpson photo? You remember that?
Maitland Ward:
Yes. And she was gorgeous shape.
Tori Dunlap:
It looked great. It was curvy and hot.
Maitland Ward:
It was terrible. I remember the Alicia Silverstone stuff. I remember I saw her. I went to the premier Clueless, which was cool. It was on the beach and everything for the MTV beach house or whatever, and she was like the star rising and everybody was talking about like she’s amazing. And then so shortly afterwards, they were just ripping her apart for being Fatgirl and all this stuff. And I don’t even understand where all of that came from. It was so damaging and it really… Even me as an actress, it was just the feeling of always you needed to be so skinny. You needed to be so perfect. You needed to be pleasing to everybody.
So even with the whole lingerie thing, and I talk about in my book, at that point, I was so much more consumed with them liking me or thinking that I was sexy because I felt so insecure about did I look good enough? Am I cute enough in this lingerie? Are they going to think that I’m fat? Are they going to think that I’m stupid or not cute or whatever. So that was the mindset going in and that overpowered any feeling of me feeling uncomfortable or didn’t have power in the feeling, but it overpowered the thoughts of me needing to focus on that. I needed to focus on pleasing more than how comfortable I was with the whole thing.
Tori Dunlap:
I was just going to say, it sounds like with your transition to porn, it was probably for many years, it was, “Yeah, how can I placate other people? How can my body and my actions, how I show up, how can that placate or be the best I can be for somebody else?” And now it sounds like it’s like how do I own what I want my own sexuality, my own body as opposed to somebody else getting to dictate what is done with it?
Maitland Ward:
Yeah, exactly. That’s the exact point of it all. I really think that’s what being in porn and stuff has given me. It’s given the freedom of taking just power, control, freedom back with my own body and how I want to use it and how it benefits me. I feel like when I was being sexualized or being used on shows for certain reasons or whatever, they were benefiting from everything, and now I get to take control of my brand and my body, and my sexuality, and stuff and benefit myself by building a business and a name and everything from that. So I think it was so empowering, and I think that’s what porn has really given me is my own power back. I think that people think that going into pornography means that you’re losing power. And I think that is a huge misconception.
Of course, there’s certain people that come into, and especially younger girls might not know what they’re getting into or they do it for the wrong reasons or whatever, but that happens in acting and modeling, and music, and just in all over the place. I did come into pornography much older with years of experience and soul searching and all of that. So I did come in from a different place. But it’s amazing to me how many girls and women in porn are so empowered by building their own brands and making their own money.
You have girls that are buying houses, getting into real estate, paying off college. They don’t have student debt because they’re making money in this industry that they’re able to take control of their own power and body, and sexuality and do this and build these brands. Maybe you don’t do it forever, but you still enjoy it and benefit from it and stuff. I think that if you are in the right mindset going into porn, it’s so empowering. It really is.
I really felt like even the first time that I got in lingerie for porn, not creating in front of the producers, but but doing my own content. See, I did my own content first for about a year and a half before I ever did a professional porn scene. So that was really in my own hands. I was calling all the shots and saying, “What are we doing next?” Let’s start off with just nudie pictures.
So what really happened was a Snapchat, like I said, started taking down photos and started messing with me and threatening my account and all this stuff. I really wasn’t doing anything terrible back then. Like I said, you could see my nipple through the shirt or you could see the shadow and a shower or a picture or I’m covering up the suds or something like that. But my fans said, Hey, why don’t you start content? And I didn’t even know what that meant, content.
This was back in the beginning of 2018 and it was still relatively new. OnlyFans had not exploded or anything and I started out on Patreon. But I said, “I’ll just sell content on Patreon. I guess if anybody’s interested, I could…” Because the people were saying, “You could have freedom with it. You could make money. You could go further with it if you want and nobody’s going to judge you.” And at that time, Patreon was a little more open to… They had an adult section. I mean, they still do, but they’ve clamped down a lot over the years as well.
But at that time, the adult art was it. So I was going to do Playboy-esque type photos and stuff and cosplay, sexy cosplay photos and videos. So I just said, “I’ll put it up. I don’t know if anybody’s going to be interested.” But literally overnight it was like I was the top creator on adult Patreon because it was just insane. I had 3,000 subscribers immediately. And then that really set off the entire thing because then I was like, “Wow, I have my own business. I can do my own thing. I can say what I want to do and what I don’t want to do.”
I tiptoed all the way throughout it and I kept getting closer and closer to pornography and to exploring my sexual side and being able to explore it with my fans in live time. They were seeing exactly what I was doing like exploring right as I was doing it. So I feel like it’s a very special journey and relationship with them that led me to… I first started doing girl-girl shoots and then started expanding until I eventually did boy-girl stuff with two foreign performers that I found and trusted very much, and I learned so much. And that was over the course of a year and a half before I did a professional porn film.
Tori Dunlap:
Maitland, I have so many questions for you. So you mentioned feeling empowered in pornography. One of the biggest things that I think about with porn is that I would classify a lot of it, and it’s very tempting to put the entire industry into the stereotype that it is exploitative and it is violent towards women. And we know that there’s a lot of pornography out there that is that way, and that is extremely degrading. And the biggest question I have for you is it’s like, “Is porn feminist? Can it be feminist?”
Maitland Ward:
Yes, absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
You mentioned, “I feel empowered and I know that there’s certain content that I do feel like is safe and that is exploring sexuality and that is consensual.” And then of course there’s pornography out there that maybe isn’t even classified as pornography because it is degrading towards women. So is porn feminist.
Maitland Ward:
It’s interesting that you bring that up and I think there gets a lot of confusion with pornography. What is pornography? Now, what I’m saying of pornography is professional companies that are hiring… Would be like studios like Warner Brothers or Disney or whatever who are making professional product. A lot of porn that you’re classifying as this is stuff that gets uploaded to PornHub that is not from a company. It’s from two guys making some terrible video with some girl out in the woods, or it’s stolen porn.
Most of the stuff that is on PornHub that you were seeing that is so violent or so degrading is not from a company. It’s like saying that I found this independent movie on some channel that was just vile and disgusting, or I saw it on the internet, some film that people made and comparing it to Avatar or something. I don’t know. I just found a movie. That does not have a comparison, but I was just thinking of a movie too. And I also think that the taboos that are so surrounding porn, I think people attach themselves to that, “Oh, it’s degrading. It’s all this stuff.”
But it puts taboos on girls where they can’t explore sexually outside of the porn business because taboo is marked on them. And if there was more freedom and more acceptance of girls and women who wanted to explore… And men too. There’s just not as much taboo on the men generally than there is the women, but if they wanted to explore sexually and however they wanted and there was more acceptance of that, I think a lot more of that terrible porn that is… It’s right on the border of illegal even uploading it stuff, but it’s very, very sketchy.
It’s what people just see on PornHub for free too. For free. You’re watching it on there. So a lot of that stuff is just whatever people make. And I think the more that degrading porn is elevated, and I don’t mean elevated in the way that people like it. Well, they do like it, but I mean elevated in the way that it’s looked at as like, “Oh, this is the porn we must destroy.”
Tori Dunlap:
Mainstream.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. Like it’s looking at mainstream porn. I think that hurts pornography in general, and that also hurts women to say, “We’re going to get rid of all this porn to help them because it’s not helping them to get rid of all porn.” It is helping them to get rid of bad porn and to have verified accounts on these things. The porn community was very up in arms. There wasn’t enough verification for PornHub originally when they had all those problems and stuff because they were just letting anybody upload stuff.
We always wanted to have our verified accounts where we put our stuff up or the studios put their stuff up where it’s verified product where you have to follow the rules. It’s like I think people don’t realize how many rules go into professional porn set. I’m sure some of these terrible movies that you’re seeing don’t have any of that. They’re not making you test all the time.
Tori Dunlap:
Maitland, let’s talk about that because I’m intrigued by that and I have done my own research to know a bit about that. I imagine it’s an insult to you all who take this work very seriously to get lumped in with all of the people who are creating extremely violent, degrading… I wouldn’t even classify it as porn. It’s just abuse. So talk to me about what does happen on a set. What is required in terms of consent testing protocol? What does that look like?
Maitland Ward:
Well, we have to test every two weeks when you’re working steadily. So you have to test your whole panel, blood, urine, swabs up their butt, everything every two weeks. And it’s funny, before a porn scene, you have to go and you have to record yourself holding your identification. Two IDs. They have to be verified and you have to sign paperwork and consent and say that you’re not under the influence of anything. Nobody is forcing you to be here. You were doing this of your own consent and your own free will. And you say all of these things on camera with a newspaper thing with the date on it, with all this stuff. Paperwork takes about a half an hour for you to fill out everything and they have to show you signing it on camera.
Tori Dunlap:
And this is before every shoot?
Maitland Ward:
This is before every single shoot.
Tori Dunlap:
Wow.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. Every single shoot. And then when you go on set, you have to give your no’s, which are basically, you got your consent, what you don’t like, what you do like, but you have to talk with the people in your scene and you have to map it out ahead of time. I mean, it’s very taboo if anybody would go against that. I work with Vixen as a contract person, and they would stop the scene immediately if somebody purposely went against somebody’s no list.
Tori Dunlap:
Is that a industry-wide thing or is that just Vixen?
Maitland Ward:
Yeah, for the big companies. I mean, Vixen is very careful about all that. But for the major companies, everybody has to do the paperwork. Everybody has to consent and do all that.
Tori Dunlap:
Have a conversation.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah, definitely. And that’s a big deal. Now, we’re even putting all our no’s on video as well thing. So we have it ahead of time. And if you want to stop at any time during the scene, nobody is going to ask you any questions about that. So there’s just very much protocol. It’s not like people think they come onto a set and it’s just this wild thing with orgies and drugs. Oh, god. And if there’s drugs or anything, that’s a huge no. People are ripped from the set if they’re under any influence that’s affecting anything. That’s a huge no.
I think people think, “Oh, everybody has got STDs, everybody’s drugged.” It’s like it’s so much further from the truth. I mean, I remember doing love scenes in… It’s been so long, but in soaps and past that, in whatever films or whatever, and I feel like I got no direction. I got no conversation. I just was like go.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re starting to get intimacy coordinators on set, but we’re only just starting to understand that that might be a good thing to have.
Maitland Ward:
I know. So I haven’t experienced that on a mainstream set for intimacy coaches, but there’s been that for such a long time in porn just because of the nature of the business and everything. But I just think laying it out all ahead of time is so, so important. I always feel like actors in mainstream, at least from my experience and from hearing about people’s experiences and just being on in the world of soaps where they were doing a lot of love scenes even more than me, but people get so nervous.
Mainstream actors are so nervous. And I actually had an actor who, I won’t say his name, but… Good point. Because he says, “They asked why would actors,” and he was mainly talking about guys, “why would they not want to do porn?” And people think, “Oh, because it’s taboo.” And he’s like, “No, because they’re too embarrassed to get naked.” He’s like, “That’s the truth. If they had some big dicks like the guys in porn, they’d be swinging them out there everywhere.” And I said-
Tori Dunlap:
Very funny.
Maitland Ward:
… “Yeah, that’s very true.” So yeah, the Hollywood actors are… I don’t know. They get so weird about sex scenes. Everybody gets quiet and nervous and giggly. I don’t know. We take it more seriously. It’s just the job in porn.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know anybody else in any other industry who is testing every two weeks to make sure.
Maitland Ward:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
Even people who are casually dating-
Maitland Ward:
It’s a lot.
Tori Dunlap:
… who’s out here testing every two weeks?
Maitland Ward:
I know. Oh my god. I heard of a girl who said she was dating. She goes, “Oh, I got an STD test.” And three months later she wanted to get another one. And she was like, “God, it’s just so much.” And I’m like, “You waited three months.”
Tori Dunlap:
You’re like, “I’m out here every 14 days, girl.”
Maitland Ward:
I was like, “What?” That seems so long. But you were talking about also is porn feminist, and I think that’s a question that’s what makes it feminist though. I think anything with consent on the women’s side of something she enjoys. I mean, I do scenes where he pulls my hair and he is choking me, but I enjoy that and it’s a consensual scene. If somebody is being taken against their will that is totally different. And then I do scenes where I pull the guy’s hair and I’m beating on him. So I don’t know. I play a mistress a lot of the times where I’m so diabolical and it’s a lot of fun, but I go both ways.
So I think anything where it’s fun and it’s consensual and you agree to it ahead of time, and you like it, and you’ve agreed on the setup, that’s an empowering thing because think about in the world how much we don’t get to agree to and how much… And sexually, how many women are told to do things, are forced to do things and stuff. But to be able to say, “Listen, I like my hair pulled. Do it like this and do it in this way. Fuck me this way.” This is great. So I feel like that is really empowering.
Tori Dunlap:
One of my questions then. So there’s this consent discussion between you and any other performers on set. Is a director also part of that consent?
Maitland Ward:
Oh, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Because I think, again, there is this stereotype of girls in front of this sleazy director smoking a cigarette who’s like, “Do this.” Is the director or anybody else who might be calling shots on set also part of that conversation?
Maitland Ward:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. They’re standing there with us. And it’s funny that you say that because my primary director who is one director four times.
Tori Dunlap:
Kayden Kross.
Maitland Ward:
Kayden Kross. So there’s a lot of women in porn and people don’t realize how many women are very successful directing and producing in porn.
Tori Dunlap:
I wanted to ask you about your relationship with her because that has to feel different. Even the chillest, most consent focused man, it has to feel different to have a woman directing you. And I know that you in many ways have become her muse and worked together really well with her. How does that feel different or how is a set different with a woman directing?
Maitland Ward:
It definitely adds to the comfortability factor, of course, there that there’s a woman who knows… And she’s also was a great performer in her own right, so she knows exactly what you’re going through on the scenes and what it means to be a performer and to direct the scenes. So I feel like it’s very empowering for a lot of girls, especially to see someone so successful like her. Of course it is for me, but I’m seeing younger girls who are on the set and stuff and they look to a woman like her to aspire to her and to say, “Listen, she’s creating stuff. She’s empowered. She’s successful.”
And that’s why it’s so frustrating to hear that old story about, “Oh, the guy with the cigarette directing the orgies, handing out the drugs.” It couldn’t be further from the truth. You were talking about soaps, I had so much dialogue, so many pages. I mean, I had a three-page monologue from Kayden in one three solid pages that I had to memorize. And it was like, that’s where I felt like soaps had trained me.
Honestly, I feel like the soap world is so much like the porn world. It’s like the same except different players. It’s this little world off of Hollywood who’s looked down upon by-
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Not taken seriously.
Maitland Ward:
Not taking it seriously, but has more fans many times than a lot of these mainstream ventures and stuff. And the personalities are very similar too. We all know each other and it’s interesting. But yeah, I feel like it’s a very strong thing to have a female director, a strong female director on set and to really. But you know what? I think women can get even dirtier and more diabolical. I think they can really delve into what gets in a man’s psyche too, and the men watching. Also, it’s really cool too when there’s a feminine element of the director in the film. I think it really comes across that way because I have so many couples come to me, and I had one couple at one of my book signings, it was amazing.
She said she didn’t like porn. He liked to watch porn. He wanted to be part of their relationship or part of their foreplay or whatever, not their relationship, but their foreplay. And she didn’t like it at all. He says, “Well, why don’t you watch this movie?” One of my movies, I think, Muse. It was Muse, the movie that I did that one of them with Kayden. And she was like, “Wow, this has a full story and it’s interesting and it’s female empowering.” And then it’s hot.
She said, “I added so much to their marriage because she could find this porn outlet that she enjoyed and she liked watching and she liked the story and she liked being her mind fucked before fuck.” It’s not just going you’re in this mental thing first.” I think that’s even sexier and I think women really bring that to the table so much. I think it’s just a different kind of a multi-dimensional porn and I think women are very responsible when they’re directing for bringing all of those elements to it. And I think we really understand that it’s not just the old thing of just point and shoot them having sex.
You need all of the elements of sight, sound, taste, the feeling of all of that to really have this full experience. Kayden is the front-runner of all this, but there are many other female directors who have been in the game and have done amazing work and also who are coming up younger directors. I’m directing a project now, and I’ve directed scenes and stuff, but I’m directing a fuller project. It’s inspiring and I do believe they… Think about the women directors in Hollywood, how few there are for films, and yet we can make our films here and win awards, and create the products we want to.
And Hollywood would never let me create a serious role where I’d have such lengthy acting role with the kind of stuff that I wanted to do that was provocative, that was dark in TV, whatever I wanted to do and they wouldn’t let me do that. But I get to be able to do that in porn and offer it to an audience that, “Listen, it’s much greater than with people who are watching independent films are.” People love it and I have such a loyal fan base because of it. So it’s just a great marriage of the world. And I always say, I don’t think people should think of porn and mainstream as separate because porn is mainstream.
It’s not this hidden thing in the dark. And I think younger generations definitely know that. People in their 20s will come up and say, “I just love porn. I love these people.” And they’ll feel comfortable with what people in their 50s might be like, “Oh my God, what is porn? It’s so scary.” So I think that thing is shifting.
Tori Dunlap:
Since you started doing pornography pretty dominant in the industry in terms of winning awards and in terms of your success. Your rates are some of the highest in the industry. I want to talk like this is one of two financial questions, which is like, how do you learn to negotiate and ask for what you’re worth especially in an industry that has so much stigma? We’re talking about two very stigmatized things, money and sex, right? So how did that work for you?
Maitland Ward:
Right. Well, I came into it from a different way. Just my history with Boy Meets World and my mainstream career and everything was going to put me on a higher pay scale no matter what. And then when I came into my first film that I did with Kayden Kross that just blew up all over the internet and it blew up the sites and everything where they were showing it, that put me… I immediately got signed to a contract and so that was that.
Now, if you’re talking about other girls coming into the industry, I think it’s very important that they know their worth. And I think it’s much… Not easier, but it’s much more accessible now to know you’re worth because of things like OnlyFans and because of platforms where you sell content, your fan base, you know what they’re willing to pay. You know your popularity. You can measure it that way. And I think that’s very important because I know porn back in the VHS days or DVD days or whatever, you didn’t know and you’d had to take whatever the companies were willing to pay you.
I mean, there were contract girls that made a lot more just because of course they were more popular and you knew that. But the power has really gotten into the women’s hands because of OnlyFans and things like that. Because you can just sit at home and go live and make some money. It’s an amazing thing that women are able to build their brands on their own and they don’t have to rely on the studios anymore. So I think that’s put a lot of power into their hands. And that’s something that mainstream is missing really because there’s not really a platform. I mean, mainstream people can go to OnlyFans, but not generally. I mean, cameos, oh my god, I don’t think that’s the same thing.
Tori Dunlap:
Cameos or maybe in social media.
Maitland Ward:
Social media, yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Like an influencer and doing classic influencer deals.
Maitland Ward:
Absolutely, yes.
Tori Dunlap:
But to your point, it’s not much different. I’m going to relate porn to George Clooney for a second. George Clooney taking an Espresso deal versus shooting another Oceans movie. I feel like that might be the version of partnering with a big studio or showing up on OnlyFans at home.
Maitland Ward:
And you just do that and you make a lot of money and it’s fun too. I think during the whole thing when we were in COVID and everything, it really blew up. My audience was huge and we had so much fun. We were inside all the time, and I was able to do live shows and talk to everybody, and there was a real human connection there when the whole world lost that human connection. I would do all these videos and stuff where I’d do fake dates where people would buy them and we’d pretend like I’d meet him at a bar, and we were out having a good time and stuff in a time when nobody was out or anything.
But I do also think people tend to believe that, “Oh, if you go to OnlyFans that somebody new,” they can make tons of money right away. It’s not true. It’s not true. And I think after COVID, it really started leveling off where the porn performers and the influencers and the real established people are making the big money. And definitely performers in porn who aren’t maybe… Or on social media who aren’t maybe the biggest, definitely make good money on it.
But we were seeing before a teacher quitting school just to make money on OnlyFans. But if you’re not serious about building your brand and business there, it’s going to go astray. It is a lot of hard work because like you spend so much time making content and doing custom videos and photo sets and just a lot of stuff. So it is a lot of work, but you’re not working for a studio when you’re doing it. So you are in control of everything and you are branding your own stuff and making your own money. So that’s really empowering.
Tori Dunlap:
Maitland, I don’t know how to ask this question, so I’m going to noodle it with you.
Maitland Ward:
Ask it.
Tori Dunlap:
No, when a lot of sex work gets discussed, it is almost like a means to an end where it’s like, “Okay, I’m going to go strip, I’m going to go on OnlyFans. I’m going to be part of porn and I’m going to do it to get my bag, and then I’m going to leave.” Which the show is called Financial Feminist. I’m like, “However you want to get your bag and you’re not hurting yourself or others, great. Do whatever you got to do.”
Maitland Ward:
Right.
Tori Dunlap:
It leaves me feeling a little icky because I’m like, “I don’t want you to hate what you have to do in order to make a bunch of money, or I don’t want you to feel like, you know what, I’ll just tolerate this. And then once I have enough money where I don’t have to tolerate it anymore, I’ll quit.” Now, it sounds like for you, that’s not where you’re at. This is something you enjoy, that you get to explore your sexuality. But I know that there’s two sides of it, and I don’t know how to reckon that. Again, I don’t know if this is a question, but it’s one of the things I feel where it’s like-
Maitland Ward:
No, it’s not true.
Tori Dunlap:
… you get in, you get enough money and you quit because you’re like, “Yeah, I didn’t really enjoy it, but I got the money that I needed to do whatever I want to do.” I can say this with any job, most of us work, jobs we don’t like until we get enough money that we get to quit.”
Maitland Ward:
That’s true. You’re making money too.
Tori Dunlap:
I just feel it’s challenging, it’s tricky if it is… Especially women doing something where they don’t love it, but they love the money.
Maitland Ward:
I know. That’s frustrating for me too, because I really believe that. I also believe a lot of girls have to say that because it’s such a taboo thing, they have to distance themselves from the job even… Because it’s hard. Unless somebody is severely troubled or mentally ill or such a sad circumstance that they’re coming into it where they’re being forced in some way, which is terrible and should be policed by people. So that’s a separate, separate case. But I think there are a lot of girls, and I’ve seen instances of it where they distance themselves from the work. So it’s like they don’t feel bad because the society looks on them as bad.
I’m just making money. Money is good. Money is good in society, money is an acceptable thing to make, which is fine. It is to me too, but if you enjoy your sexual work or if you enjoy stripping or if you enjoy… It has to be like, “Oh, I’m doing it for this reason.” I am distancing myself from that. Because there are so many young girls I have seen, and I would not be this young girl because I come in the industry where I’m confident about myself, and I was not that young girl, 21, 22 or whatever, where they’re so sexually confident and they really love what they’re doing.
I feel people put that badge on them that, “Oh, they must be messed up, or they don’t enjoy what they’re doing, they’re just doing it to make this money.” I honestly see firsthand that they absolutely enjoy what they’re doing. And then a lot of times they play into that narrative because of societies holding them.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. It’s not socially acceptable.
Maitland Ward:
It’s not socially acceptable to enjoy being sexual and enjoy stripping or OnlyFans, or anything to make money. Also maybe you just want to do it for a certain amount of time too, just because it’s a lot of hard work. I mean, if you’re going to be stripping every night or if you’re going to be every… I mean, it’s physically a lot of hard work, so maybe you do just want to do it for limited time. They say that in the business, there is a timeframe of talent. If they come in at six months, it’s either they leave after six months, 18 months or three years plus.
But I think the six-month there’s really income in it and they think it’s going to be easy and it’s just going to be sex on camera. And they don’t realize what a business it is and how much work you have to put into it in order to succeed at this business. And I think those are the people who are like… They’re kind of the people in OnlyFans who just said, “Oh, I’m just going to go on OnlyFans and make money and just rake it all in.” But they’re not thinking of building a brand or a business out of it.
It always frustrates me when people say… Mainstream actors like to do this. “I’m desperate. I’ll go sell my feet pictures on OnlyFans.” I served this idiot actor to a comedy show, and he’s a soap actor, but he made a whole thing about this and I was like, “You are such a douche. I’m sorry.”
Tori Dunlap:
Right. You wouldn’t make any money.
Maitland Ward:
You wouldn’t make any money. Nobody wants to see your feet. And he’s like, “Oh yeah, COVID lasted longer. I was going to…”
Tori Dunlap:
It insults how this is actual work.
Maitland Ward:
It insults people that are making money. Yeah, it’s actual work. And I think there are people that come into it thinking it’s going to be easier, it’s going to be a certain way. And it’s not. Now the 18-month people who leave after 18 months, I think they worked. They just got tired. I think they made enough and they’ve made enough name for themselves. A lot of people though, they’re talking about they don’t work professionally, but now they’ll keep working on OnlyFans.
They’ve built their audience and they’ve built that they don’t have to go into the studio work all the time. I think now studio work… I mean, it’s different for me because I like to make big films and I like to do big acting projects with porn. So I am backed by a big studio to be able to do that with a full film crew and cameras and-
Tori Dunlap:
It probably feels more creative for you too, right? You’re looking for a creative outlet.
Maitland Ward:
I’m looking for the creative outlet, and then I have my OnlyFans separate, which is amazing. But for people who aren’t interested in that facet of it or making films and things, they come into the business to get recognition on the studio sites, and they do a bunch of scenes, and they get fan base and they build their base and their social media. And then by the time they get to about 18 months, they can go to OnlyFans and then they can do their own thing. And maybe once every so often come back for a scene just to pump up the base. But it’s a smart business plan.
Tori Dunlap:
Pun intended.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. Exactly. Pun is always intended to me.
Tori Dunlap:
You said something earlier in the interview and you were talking so I wasn’t going to interrupt you where you said the word nipple and then they clamp down on people.
Maitland Ward:
Did I say nipple?
Tori Dunlap:
You said nipple and then clamped down and I was like…
Maitland Ward:
It’s just in my brain.
Tori Dunlap:
I was like nipple clamp, nipple clamp, nipple clamp.
Maitland Ward:
Nipple clamp.
Tori Dunlap:
We have had previous sex workers on the show. I don’t know if you know Justine Cross, Mistress Justine Cross who lives in LA?
Maitland Ward:
No, but I feel a connection with Mistress Maitland.
Tori Dunlap:
She’s like a BDSM… She has a dungeon that she owns in LA.
Maitland Ward:
Oh, I respect that. See, that’s full on. I’m not full on BDSM mistress. I’m more like voice mistress.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. No, but she’s incredible.
Maitland Ward:
No, I’m sure.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve had some other sex workers on the show. They’ve talked about just it’s very hard to manage the money you do make because it’s the stigma, but also sometimes the work you’re doing isn’t legal work. So is there certain things that you have to think about when you’re making money and how you make money? You were talking about Snapchat cracking down on you. Is there certain things that you have to keep in mind in order to actually get your money deposited?
Maitland Ward:
I don’t have so much of that because everything I do is legal. I’m not looking down on anybody about that, but I’m not doing… I know what she means.
Tori Dunlap:
Sex work, like traditional sex work.
Maitland Ward:
Sex work. I’m doing pornography. So I don’t have to as much, but I know people who’ve gotten churned down just by depositing money from certain porn sites just because of their name and everything. Luckily, I mean, I’m thankful Vixen has a name that’s not bang20hoes.com.
Tori Dunlap:
LLC. Let’s get Bang 20 Hoes, LLC.
Maitland Ward:
You know what? I won’t say the names of them, but I’ve heard of girls who will not get hired on sites because their corpse are so dirty sounding, they don’t want to get in trouble, the companies. They’re so raunchy. I don’t know why you would bring attention to yourself.
Tori Dunlap:
The business that they incorporate to… Oh, that’s very funny. I didn’t even think about that. We run under Victory Media, I imagine if you’re…
Maitland Ward:
No, think about… Yeah,
Tori Dunlap:
Really fun. I didn’t think about that. How do you name your company when you work in porn?
Maitland Ward:
Seriously. I don’t know why you would name it porny because that’s what’s really flagging you when you go to the bank.
Tori Dunlap:
Hello, Bank of America. I’m looking to open up a business checking account.
Maitland Ward:
Two Slutty Hoes, Use My Holes. No, it’s so dumb. That’s my advice out there. I’m serious. People think they’re funny with it. I don’t get it, but that’s my advice. Name your stuff like an actual business because it is. Anytime that kind of stuff goes through banks that’s going to be flagged. So you need to know that. And companies don’t want to write checks to these places because it looks like they’re in… It just flags everything. Even if it’s totally on the up and up and it’s just them being stupid, it’s not good.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, companies are trying to crack down on the activity that is trafficking or illegal. They see Use My Holes, LLC and they’re like, “You know what? Probably I’m not going to let this transaction go through.”
Maitland Ward:
But banks do have this clause where they can say that they don’t approve of the work or whatever sex works. So that is a problem too. So if you’re bringing attention to that, you don’t have to be doing anything illegal. It’s the fact that they think it’s like this morality clause, which should be taken away from these banks and corporations and credit card companies, and stuff saying that legal work actually can be turned away because of their morality reasons and stuff.
I heard somebody say how politicians and stuff would crack down on porn and they want to get rid of porn. And this was a porn journalist that I was talking to and that people are worried like, “Oh, would they shut down porn? Would there be nothing?” And he said, “No, they’ll always be porn. These people in politics and on higher ups, they want to watch it. They just don’t want to watch women be successful at it. They don’t want to watch them making money. They want to watch them be desperate for sex. They want to watch people and women be desperate and humiliated and have to do sex and have to be the traditional view of what they view a prostitute or a whore, or whatever.”
I use those words empoweringly otherwise, but that’s what they’re using them as. And so they don’t want you to make money. They don’t want you to be a success. And that’s very threatening that OnlyFans and social media has made porn stars have more followers than mainstream actors and stuff.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and I don’t know any other industry where women a hundred percent of the time, unless it’s gay men porn, and a hundred percent of the time get top billing. A hundred percent of the time.
Maitland Ward:
And top pay.
Tori Dunlap:
If there’s a woman in the scene, they are the stars.
Maitland Ward:
They’re the stars.
Tori Dunlap:
They are the people that everybody is coming to see. And I don’t know any other industry that operates that way.
Maitland Ward:
It’s so true. We’re the top paid and top billed and top featured. The girl is it. The guy is the dick. You have to have a big dick, and good in whatever. And I’ve actually known quite a few guys that go to gay porn because of that, and they’re straight. They make way more money, and they get more billing and they can build their brand bigger that way. So that’s interesting you bring that up because in porn… But it’s wonderful to have a scene when a guy who’s been in the industry a long time recognizes that, and he knows that and knows what his job is. His job is to build up the girl in the scene to make-
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Support and-
Maitland Ward:
… her look the best.
Tori Dunlap:
… make you shine.
Maitland Ward:
Yes, exactly. And those performers are just golden. It’s amazing. It doesn’t mean that they’re not rough and tumble and they can do all these things. You can trust them in the scene to carry it through. Because as a girl, you don’t realize in a scene, especially… I did a gang bang one time. I’ve done a few, but my first gang bang, and it was part of the Muse universe, the second Muse film that I did. It’s a lot of hard work. I mean, it’s so hard. You have to give attention to all of these dicks. I was sweating, my earrings were gone.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like bird attacking you.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah. And then in this scene, and specifically they had every people sitting around watching because it was supposed to be like this sex kind of club, and they weren’t involved in the scene, but they were just watching and doing their thing in the background.
Tori Dunlap:
I think to your point earlier of yeah, you show up and you have sex on camera. Now, I think for the average person listening and me, I’m going, “That seems hard enough.” You’re like, “That’s hard enough.” But to think about-
Maitland Ward:
true.
Tori Dunlap:
… you have to be an athlete.
Maitland Ward:
You do. Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re going to need a knee replacement. You got every single hole sometimes has got things in it, and that takes work. And that is a muscle.
Maitland Ward:
It absolutely does. I don’t think people realize the athletic… And to be towards the camera and to be like-
Tori Dunlap:
You’re not having sex with your partner at home, you’re having sex for a camera.
Maitland Ward:
Yeah.And it’s like we always say, your sex muscles are sore afterwards, and it’s not what you think. It’s like I say, “I’m so sore from the sex. It’s not my vagina or whatever, it’s my neck or my lower back because I’ve had to turn around this the entire time.” And I’ll always be like, “My sex muscles…” The ones you never use that are like, you have to hold yourself a certain way. My left side up here is hurting because I have to hold myself a certain way the whole time. And you’re, yes, sweaty mess by the end. But it is thrilling and it is a high because you just get to put all of yourself into it, and then at the end it’s like, “Wow, I did that.”
Tori Dunlap:
Maitland, my last question for you is, we’ve been talking as we’ve gone through our conversation today of the taboos and the stigmas. What do you wish you could dispel about your work?
Maitland Ward:
Oh, there’s so much. I think we’ve talked about a lot of what I would dispel… I would dispel that definitely first off, that women are not in control of pornography being made because it is more and more going into the hands of women and also men that don’t identify as typical cisgender men, that there’s a lot more of that out there that’s non-binary like very… I know a couple of male directors who they identify as male, but they’re very fluid, I guess is the word. I don’t know all about them personally. But they’re making some things that are really cool, that are really outside the box and are just very relevant.
And then all of the women that are… And the gay women. There’s just so much. I think it’s so interesting to me how the porn industry is so very open to all types of sexuality and I think there are a lot of people that have been oppressed in their lives for their sexual preferences or what they wanted to do or who they were. And they come to the industry and they definitely find a family and a home of people that will accept them for their otherness. And I felt otherness too, and not as substantial aways as some people, but I think they find a community there. And then I think what really damages them when in the end of porn is when they go back out into the world and people totally rip them apart for what they’ve done or who they were or whatever.
But I think that porn does offer a very solid community for people that aren’t like everyone else. Anyone is really everyone else, but who don’t identify as the typical suburban American person that we’re supposed to think is normal. So I think people think of porn as being something that’s dangerous and a bad place to be, but I think it’s saved a lot of people. I really do. Porn has offered such a safety net and such a community for people that feel like they are other than that… I think that should be recognized more because it’s really the people in the outside world that have this judgment and taboo that are affecting the people in the porn industry when they come out and want to maybe do something else.
Maybe they don’t want to do that for the rest of their lives. Maybe they want to try something else, but to be not able to because there’s this witch hunt after them. That’s terrible. But I think people should know that it’s much more inclusive and much more open-minded and broad than anybody. And it’s not what you see on PornHub. Don’t go to PornHub. Pay money and you’re paying the performer and you’re paying for quality. You’re not going on PornHub and watching terrible movies.
Tori Dunlap:
And you’re paying for protocol and consent.
Maitland Ward:
Yes, exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s 100% guaranteed if you pay [inaudible 01:09:13]
Maitland Ward:
It’s 100%, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. As opposed to whatever you’re consuming out there, you potentially don’t know.
Maitland Ward:
Yes, exactly. And you’re giving them money and then they can just keep using and abusing people.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Maitland, thank you for your time. This was such an interesting conversation.
Maitland Ward:
Thank you. It was wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, I feel like we just were talking.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s great. Where can people find out more about you, learn more about your work?
Maitland Ward:
You find me @maitlandward, M-A-I-T-L-A-N-D W-A-R-D, at Twitter, Instagram. And then on TikTok. TikTok is a hard environment for porn star, but they always are trying to kick you off with things. So it’s Maitland Toks, Maitland Toks, T-O-K-S, but I’m tiptoeing still into that world. They took off a video where I was just dancing around and I’m like, I wasn’t doing anything sexual in this video. Maybe my boobs were bouncy, but I naturally have bouncy boobs.
Tori Dunlap:
As most of us do.
Maitland Ward:
I can’t help this. I don’t know. And they were like sexual content. But anyway I’m still foraging in through the world. And then all my OnlyFans is Maitland Ward too. If you want me to give you a special custom video, you will love it there. And there’s all sorts of fun. I do live shows and stuff.
Tori Dunlap:
Cool. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Maitland Ward:
Thank you so much. Good to talk to you.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much to Maitland for joining us for this episode. It was incredibly fascinating for me. And one of the questions I have asked a lot is, can porn be feminist? Is porn feminist? In what ways if we choose to engage with pornography, can we do so in an ethical way? Like we said in the interview, one of the easiest ways to do that is to pay. Pay for your pornography, pay for the content that you consume. That way you know that the companies you’re choosing to support have gone through those rigorous background checks, those rigorous consent checks. And it’s just a reminder too that a lot of the shit out there is unfortunately extremely misogynistic and extremely degrading to women.
And if we are going to consume pornography, there is content out there that we can do in a more ethical, supporting to women kind of way. You can find out more about Maitland by Google and her. We got all sorts of resources to her in our show notes. You can also get her book Rated X wherever you get your books. I would love to hear your thoughts about this episode. This is, again, both pun intended, and not pun intended, a spicier episode than we’ve done previous.
But in talks about feminism, we really think it’s crucial to the conversation to talk about our sexual wellness, whatever that looks like. So please feel free to give us your thoughts, and maybe you have more questions and maybe you have different things that you want us to cover. But I would just love to hear from you. Thank you so much for being here, Financial Feminists. We appreciate it, and I hope you have a great rest of your day. Bye.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer, Tamisha Grant, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Elizabeth McCumber, Amanda Leffew, Masha Bachmetyeva, Kailyn Sprinkle. Researched by Ariel Johnson, audio engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First $100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over one million women negotiate salary, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of almost 250,000 on Instagram and more than 1.6 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
