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Anxiety, Feet Pics, and Buzzfeed Drama
If this sounds like the ingredients to the strangest episode of Financial Feminist –– you might be right. We’re joined this week by friend of the show and mother to the internet’s cutest doggo, Kelsey Darragh.
In this episode, Kelsey and Tori talk about Kelsey’s time at Buzzfeed and how that ultimately led her to creating her own content as a documentary filmmaker and producer. They also candidly dive into Kelsey’s mental health journey and writing her handbook for anxiety, Don’t F*cking Panic!
What you’ll learn:
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Why you cannot trust those “celebrity net worth trackers”
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What the current market is like for feet pics
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Why Kelsey split with Buzzfeed and how she’s using what she started there to build out the next chapter of her content creator vision
Get comfy, grab your favorite beverage, and enjoy this candid conversation between two friends.
Resources:
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Behind the Scenes and Extended Clips on Youtube
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Financial Feminist on Instagram
Meet Kelsey
Kelsey Darragh is a creator, filmmaker, and writer who you’ve probably seen producing hundreds of videos on the internet with an average viewership of 14M+ during her time at BuzzFeed. Recently, she’s transitioned to linear content with impactful films as a documentary director and Executive Producer.
She’s created a top-tier show for Comcast’s “Watchable” called, Am I Doing This Right, an irreverent true-crime pilot for Oxygen’s linear channel, and hosted a top rated iTunes society & culture podcast for the third year running, Confidently Insecure . Her documentary short, In Custody Of The State: A Case For Saraya developed with Springhill Productions is currently in the festival circuit.
She joined the Sundance family in 2019 with a New Voices fellowship for her dramatic comedy about mental health and relationships, “Where We Are”. Shortly after, she released her first book “Don’t F*cking Panic” which made the Amazon best-seller list in the mental health category. She is part E!’s flagship comedy show “Dating: No Filter” in its second season and is one of the hosts of the hit movie & television podcast, Guilty Pleasures.
Currently, Kelsey has been announced to direct the feature documentary about BuzzFeed Inc. and her documentary about Restorative Justice, Rehumanize, has just wrapped post-production and is seeking distribution. She is currently working on her second book about chronic pain published with Thought Catalogue. when she’s not directing or writing, she’s with her rescue pitbull, Hippo, who you can see on TikTok @kelseydarragh.
Transcript:
Kelsey Darragh:
The story of the person that starts having success with money and then is so fearful of never having it again, that they just work and they work and they watch… Their kid grow up. They don’t get to enjoy the vacation. There’s a story that he tells about his friend who is a multi-billionaire, but he retired when he was 40-something. And he’s like, “Yeah, I wish I would’ve enjoyed any of this money when I was in my 20s and 30s. I’ve missed out on so much opportunity.” And people are like, “Well, I don’t care. He is a billionaire in his 40s. Who cares?” It’s like, “Yeah. But at what point do you have more money than you have time?”
Tori Dunlap:
Hi, Financial Feminists, welcome back. Welcome back to the show. And if you’re new here, hello, my name is Tori. I am the host of this podcast, clearly, but also a money expert, a millionaire, a entrepreneur, and a Timothée Chalamet stan. And we’re so excited you’re here. This podcast is all about not just personal finance and money, but really how money affects women’s lives differently. And how we can use money to make an impact on our communities and change all of the bullshit inequality so that hopefully we can live in a world where we have rights. Crazy, crazy concept. But really we’re just talking about how money affects women differently, and all of the things that go along with that. And that includes Mental Health Month. So this episode is incredibly important. We actually recorded it way back in 2022, but we’ve been holding onto it, because May is mental health awareness month.
So we’re sharing episodes from experts and advocates all month long, touching on mental health and how it affects us and our finances. Just like any other month though, we talk about mental health always on this podcast. We just want to especially highlight it in May. We will link previous episodes that discuss the emotions of money, how our mental health affects not just our money, but our confidence and our jobs and our relationships. We will link all of those down below so you can take your learning to the next level. Okay, today’s guest, I am so excited. We recorded this episode in Kelsey’s home. And if you’ve spent any time watching content from BuzzFeed or just reading her book, you have seen her on the internet. There’s no way you haven’t, and I am a huge, massive fan of Kelsey. So this was just the coolest full circle thing for me where I got to chat with her.
Kelsey Darragh is a creator, filmmaker, and writer who you’ve probably seen producing hundreds of videos on the internet with an average viewership of 14 million during her time at BuzzFeed. Recently, she’s transitioned to linear content with impactful films as a documentary director and executive producer. She joined the Sundance family in 2019 with a New Voices Fellowship for her dramatic comedy about mental health and relationships, Where We Are, shortly after she released her first book, Don’t Fucking Panic, which made the Amazon bestseller list in the mental health category. Currently, Kelsey has been announced to direct a feature documentary about BuzzFeed Inc. And her documentary about restorative justice, Rehumanize, has just wrapped post production and is seeking distribution. She is currently working on her second book about chronic pain, published with thought catalog, and when she’s not directing or writing, she’s with her rescue pit bull Hippo, who unfortunately was not there. Hippo was at daycare, I believe.
I literally walked in and hugged her, and then I was like, “Where is Hippo?” Hippo was out of office today. You can find her on TikTok @kelseydarragh. I won’t lie to you, this was the equivalent of sitting around the fireplace with one of your friends who you haven’t seen in years and catching up and then maybe throwing in a little wine and a lot of money talk. It’s a great conversation, but there’s a lot of laughter and sidebars. I think you’ll really like it. We dive head first into anxiety, mental health, feelings around money and how the patterns we learned growing up about finances affect how we see them as adults. We’ve also talked about her transition from BuzzFeed and navigating her weight as a freelance creator. Also, I will say, this is definitely not a kid-friendly episode or one you listen to on the Sonos out loud at work. So just want a disclaimer before you go further. And again, if you know Kelsey’s work that is not surprising to you at all, so let’s go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors.
Psychedelic one in September.
I’ve never done it before and I really, I want to.
Kelsey Darragh:
Psychedelics?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
Are you a weed person at all?
Tori Dunlap:
I am a never drugs ever because I was… Drugs were bad.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, no. I did all the drugs and I’m terrified of them. So even me who’s done so many drugs, was terrified about psychedelics. They are the least scary out of all of them so far.
Tori Dunlap:
I feel like it would be good for me.
Kelsey Darragh:
I am not a doctor, but I think you should do some drugs.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, great.
Kelsey Darragh:
For your mental health.
Tori Dunlap:
I smoked a joint for the first time two months ago, and I coughed.
Kelsey Darragh:
For the first time?
Tori Dunlap:
I did a weed pen once and some edibles.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s bold to go straight to edibles.
Tori Dunlap:
It was like you took three for a full dose. I ate one and then was like, “I don’t feel anything after an hour.” So I took two and then I was like, “I still don’t feel anything.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Don’t take three after.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. No, I didn’t. I don’t think I’ve ever actually gotten high. So I smoked a joint.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
Really, I took one big, big, big breath of a joint and coughed for 25 minutes and I was like, “I hate this. I’m never doing this again.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Do you have anxiety?
Tori Dunlap:
No.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
No. I’ve never smoked a cigarette. I’ve never smoked anything.
So that was little virgin lung getting the like, it wasn’t good.
Kelsey Darragh:
Also, I feel like you have to be drawn to that sort of thing to be that kind of person at our old age. I know you’re way younger than me.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re really not. I’m 28.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m going to be 32 in two weeks.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So four.
Kelsey Darragh:
No. No, I’m wise.
Tori Dunlap:
You are.
Kelsey Darragh:
But if you’re not into it by now also, I feel like it’s like don’t fuck with your mojo, baby. You’re such a hard worker.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t do a lot of caffeine either. It’s just like-
Kelsey Darragh:
What do you run on?
Tori Dunlap:
Sleep. If I don’t sleep I am a monster.
Kelsey Darragh:
Same. I didn’t sleep very well last night.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re being very pleasant.
Kelsey Darragh:
Am I?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, we’re recording by the way. I don’t know if this-
Kelsey Darragh:
Are we recording this too?
Tori Dunlap:
What?
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, the audio and everything. It’s not just-
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay, cool.
Tori Dunlap:
I am terrified of losing an episode?
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s happened before.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m double checking, but we are rolling.
Kelsey Darragh:
You know the thing where you go, you talk to somebody really deep for 90 minutes and then you look and you’re like, I’ve lost-
Tori Dunlap:
Never hit the button one episode before and I will never-
Kelsey Darragh:
Was it with somebody especially important?
Tori Dunlap:
No.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m always like… I’m so worried with you.
Tori Dunlap:
It was me, but I’m your pal. Oh my God. Also, I give you a microphone with the most cat hair on it.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, it’s not though.
Tori Dunlap:
Dude, trade with me.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, it’s great.
Tori Dunlap:
No, I don’t want you eating cat hair. No, that one must be… That one must have been in my closet.
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s like I’m eating pussy. It’s fine. Hey.
Tori Dunlap:
Hey. Tori podcast. She’s eating pussy.
Kelsey Darragh:
Are we using any of those on my show?
Tori Dunlap:
You better. Who’s your editor? You better include all of this.
Kelsey Darragh:
Awesome. You can do it, ma’am or sir.
Tori Dunlap:
[inaudible 00:07:13].
Kelsey Darragh:
Yep. All right. Bring it out in here.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re exposing.
Kelsey Darragh:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s what happens when you put a pal on the pod.
Kelsey Darragh:
I know. Pal on the pod.
Tori Dunlap:
There’s a pal on the pod.
Kelsey Darragh:
There’s a pal on the pod.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. Talk to me about your book. So you wrote this amazing workbook called, Don’t Fucking Panic.
Kelsey Darragh:
I did.
Tori Dunlap:
About your mental health journey about helping others in their mental health journey. Can you give us some background on that journey and what brought you to writing a whole entire book about it?
Kelsey Darragh:
Did I? Am I allowed to cuss?
Tori Dunlap:
Of course.
Kelsey Darragh:
And I came on your podcast before. No?
Tori Dunlap:
No. This is first time.
Kelsey Darragh:
Wait, what? I haven’t been?
Tori Dunlap:
Nope.
Kelsey Darragh:
You came on mine.
Tori Dunlap:
Yip.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay, because I was like, I feel like I talked about this.”
Tori Dunlap:
We were supposed to do an event together and we had to cancel.
Kelsey Darragh:
Right, right, right. Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
You talked with my team. We did a lovely blog post in anticipation for that event. And then [inaudible 00:07:56].
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. Okay. So I haven’t told this story in your platform.
Tori Dunlap:
No, you did not. Give it to me.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. I was fucked up. Fucked up. Clinically, my anxiety was so severe, so early on in life, panic attacks, panic disorders. You want to talk about freaking out smoking weed? Ooh, your girl high. And yet I continued to smoke it every single day for years until I was like, “Maybe this has something to do with my problems.”
Tori Dunlap:
Maybe this is making it worse.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Depression. I mean, I remember just always being fucking tired all the time as a teenager. I got tested for thyroids, all the shit, and no one ever was like, “Maybe it’s her mental health.” I had to look up some old medical records for a shot or something or vaccine, and I found medical records when I was 17 and it was like, “What is your daily stress level?” And I, as a 17-year old wrote 10.
And it was like, “What the fuck could I possibly have thought?” Anyways, it’s all relative. And so I wrote this book thinking I’m going to write the manual that I wish I had had when I was 17. This book is fully talking to 17 year old Kelsey. And I put everything I could in there. You want actual therapeutic CBT exercise? Got it. You want somatic body work? It’s in there. You want journaling? Got it. You want games? You want connect the dots that comes out to be a picture of Ryan Gosling holding a bunny? We have it in there. It is a workbook for any kind of necessity when it comes to anxiety, panic disorder or depression.
Tori Dunlap:
I think the thing… I mean, it’s literally written on the cover of the book. I’m not a PhD. I’m not qualified.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, for sure.
Tori Dunlap:
And one of the questions I get, never from the people who are actually interested in my work, but they always go, “Do you have your certified financial planner license?”
Kelsey Darragh:
What are we? 1970?
Tori Dunlap:
That’s what I say. And I think there’s something weirdly beautiful about actually being outside of an industry.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me…
Kelsey Darragh:
You’re a real person.
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m sure it’s the same thing with you.
Tori Dunlap:
Literally, I’m like, I was a theater major. Let’s talk about money. Let’s talk about navigation.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s why I trust you more. Because I’m like, “A theater major who has millions of dollars.” Yeah. Whenever it’s a financial planner, I’m like, “Yeah, but who are you tipping off the top from? Who you’re scamming?”
Tori Dunlap:
There’s a lot of great financial professionals out there, but it almost feels after 2008, after Occupy Wall Street, after all the shit where you’re like, “I almost don’t trust you now because you’ve been in the system and also using jargon to try to describe all of these.”
Kelsey Darragh:
You bring out… That phrase, being in the system is such a good point.
Tori Dunlap:
I mean, we’re all in [inaudible 00:10:38].
Kelsey Darragh:
Right, no, but we’ve been victims of the system. And not to own victimhood, but we’ve been there for that. And I think that’s exactly why I wanted to write this book, pointing out, this is not a self-help book. This is from someone who’s been helping herself and she wants you to just have access to it.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a survival guide.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s literally what I wrote in the intro of my book. I’m like, this doesn’t solve capitalism. This doesn’t like… This isn’t I can do it so you can do it too. It’s just how to survive.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I’ve had the doctor tell me, it was all in my head. I’ve had the doctor tell me I was just being dramatic, looking for attention. I’ve had the doctor misdiagnose me. I don’t think if a doctor was writing this book, they would have those experiences in there, and it wouldn’t be as funny.
Tori Dunlap:
Definitely not.
Kelsey Darragh:
Definitely not.
Tori Dunlap:
Do you feel like that is because you are a woman? Was that a huge chunk of it? Of getting misdiagnosed or gaslit?
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? I think it had to do with… I grew up in the south.
Tori Dunlap:
Trampa.
Kelsey Darragh:
Trampa. Got to love it. 81Tree for Life.
Tori Dunlap:
I only call it Trampa becau
se of you.
Kelsey Darragh:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
You were in a BuzzFeed video called it Trampa once. And if anybody says they’re from Tampa, I’m like, “It’s Trampa.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Or you call us-
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve never been there.
Kelsey Darragh:
Tampons, we’re the tampons. You call other people from Tampa tampons.
Tori Dunlap:
Literally?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I did not know that.
Kelsey Darragh:
So that’s Trampa, so you’re a tampon.
Tori Dunlap:
I was in Florida once. I thought that was enough for me.
Kelsey Darragh:
Where did you go?
Tori Dunlap:
Orlando.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s fine.
Tori Dunlap:
It was like… I walked out at 7:00 in the morning to go to a conference and there was just geckos all over.
Kelsey Darragh:
Geckos?
Tori Dunlap:
I’m like, “I’m out.”
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m surprised it’s not alligators.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, I didn’t think I’m not enough. Too much Disney. Not enough Everglades, I think, for that.
Kelsey Darragh:
Alligators are not that scary to me because I grew up-
Tori Dunlap:
Oh really? They’re terrifying.
Kelsey Darragh:
They were always in the backyard and just… Anyway. Yeah. Being a woman, it’s like, “Duh.” I keep separating us in age. We grew up in the era of mental health finally being talked about. And 15 years ago it was not being talked about the way it is being talked about now.
Tori Dunlap:
What is it? Taylor Tomlinson dad. Have you seen that video?
Kelsey Darragh:
I eat a scoop of peanut butter.
Tori Dunlap:
I just went to her show two weeks ago.
Kelsey Darragh:
She follows me on TikTok. I follow her. So we met up. She’s lovely.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, she’s great.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I eat a scoop of peanut butter.
Tori Dunlap:
She’s so funny. Her new hour’s going to be crushing.
Kelsey Darragh:
Great. The brand new one because she’s just churning out here.
Tori Dunlap:
She is. Talk about growth, honey, you have just exploded.
Kelsey Darragh:
Us? It’s been crazy.
Tori Dunlap:
You, you specifically.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, but that’s a team behind me.
Tori Dunlap:
Of course, but take some credit.
Kelsey Darragh:
I will.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re the face.
Kelsey Darragh:
I will, but it’s definitely a we now. A lot of people still think I do this by myself, which is comical.
Tori Dunlap:
Wow. That is insane.
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
But you’ve taken something, Matt, good for you all.
Kelsey Darragh:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
And your team’s really nice.
Kelsey Darragh:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s important.
Kelsey Darragh:
I love my team very, very, very much.
Tori Dunlap:
If you have a shitty, rude team, then no bueno to interactive with.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, no bueno.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, and I think… I try not to get teary every time I talk about this. I never thought that other people would care about this thing as much as I do.
Tori Dunlap:
Isn’t it the best feeling in the world?
Kelsey Darragh:
Want to contribute to it. The community in general, but also specifically my team. I’m like… I don’t think they’re ever going to care completely because it’s not their baby.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Kelsey Darragh:
But they’ve got to be damn close. And it’s just, I’m so touched by it.
Tori Dunlap:
The reminder that exists. I think so many people think that they have to do things on their own.
Kelsey Darragh:
Well, women especially. Because it’s like… I actually, I hired a good friend of mine who ended up becoming our COO last year, and that was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. And I think we’re told to schlep it.
Tori Dunlap:
Struggle.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. And it’s like it’s…
Tori Dunlap:
Hate your life.
Kelsey Darragh:
Well, and it’s weirdly a badge of honor to be like, “Oh, I do this whole thing myself.”
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s not.
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s not.
Tori Dunlap:
No one’s impressed by that. People are like, “You need drugs.”
Kelsey Darragh:
The reason we’ve grown so fast is because I hired. That’s one of the big reasons.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, you hired the best people to do the job.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I was hiring people before I even took it full-time. I had somebody on staff when I was still running it as a side hustle, because I realized, I was like, “I can’t do this on my own. I can’t navigate it.”
Tori Dunlap:
Your parents must be so proud. Okay. A lot of our listeners struggle with…
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, I thought it was just that. They struggle. I was like, “Same.” In 2022, if you’re out there being like, “Life is great 24/7.” I’m concerned.
Tori Dunlap:
You are delusional.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m concerned.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Okay. A lot of our listeners struggle period, but also struggle with their [inaudible 00:15:06].
Kelsey Darragh:
Leo just stepped right on your vagina.
Tori Dunlap:
He knows that I like dogs more than I like cats. Cats always know. They’re like…
Kelsey Darragh:
He finds that person.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, always.
Kelsey Darragh:
100%.
Tori Dunlap:
A lot of our listeners struggle with the impact that their mental health has on their finances and their money. Was that a reality for you? And what ways would your mental health affect how you viewed or managed your money?
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay, I’m going to say something that I in therapy said. I would never say this out loud or in public, and so I’m going to say it. Okay? Okay. I’m going to say it. I weirdly think growing up a bit privileged with money really fucked me up with money.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s not shocking. That’s not shocking at all.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s my biggest secret. We weren’t massive, we weren’t millionaires.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Kelsey Darragh:
My mom came from absolutely nothing. Built her entire business, became one of the most successful realtors in Florida.
Tori Dunlap:
Amazing.
Kelsey Darragh:
And she said, “I’m going to give my kids everything I didn’t have.”
Tori Dunlap:
That was my parents as well.
Kelsey Darragh:
Eight brothers and sisters in a one bedroom house. Poor as shit.
Tori Dunlap:
That was my dad.
Kelsey Darragh:
Literally.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, like my dad.
Kelsey Darragh:
Wore reusable diapers, like trash, pure trailer trash.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. My dad was outside of Pittsburgh. Very similar. No money.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, and so my childhood was mom and dad both are working seven days a week. You are at home with the woman who raised me, and she will give you anything you need as long as it’s not mom or dad that you need, which is then [inaudible 00:16:40].
Tori Dunlap:
So sad.
Kelsey Darragh:
No. Whatever the opposite of nepotism is, it’s like, no, you’re not around at all to give me nepotism.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh man.
Kelsey Darragh:
You’re just… My mom and I have the best relationship. I always say she’s my best friend because now that I’m older, I’m like, “Oh wow, that was fucked up.” But because they weren’t around and they were really trying to financially support whatever dreams I had, I was massively ahead in a step-up because I had that kind of support.
Tori Dunlap:
Got it.
Kelsey Darragh:
But I was super, super not prepared for pretty much any fucking thing else, especially when it came to money. So figuring out a budget or how to do tax, all everything. Opening a bank account, getting a credit card, what is a credit… Everything I had to learn. And not only that, but then once I started running my own businesses, oh my God. I was like, “I’m going to hire a business manager.” So I hired a business manager. So then I still didn’t think about it. This year is the first year that I don’t have a business manager anymore, because they started charging $4,000 a month and I was like, “Absolutely not.”
Tori Dunlap:
The last time we talked you still had somebody.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. They went up the prices.
Tori Dunlap:
You and I did not have the relationship at the time for me to be like, “That’s a lot of money.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh yeah. Insane, right?
Tori Dunlap:
But I was doing… I was like, “You can manage this yourself or at least pay somebody else to manage it and they’re not going to take that much money from you.”
Kelsey Darragh:
So now I have a, what’s it called? A bookkeeper. And even having that though, I still think about money all the fucking time.
Tori Dunlap:
In a stressful way?
Kelsey Darragh:
Now I am more balanced. I’m going to tell you what changed.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay.
Kelsey Darragh:
I listened to a book called Die With Zero. Have you heard about it?
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve heard of it. I know very little. I’m assuming the premise is trying to spend all your money so you don’t leave an inheritance. Is that the idea?
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s not so that you don’t leave inheritance, it’s so that you use your money in a way that when you die, it’s not wasted.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Kelsey Darragh:
So it’s not like you can’t-
Tori Dunlap:
More better physical.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. It’s not necessarily… He even has a whole chapter about leaving money for your kids and it’s like, “Yeah, but once you give that to them, that is their money.”
Tori Dunlap:
Got it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Once it leaves your hand, it is [inaudible 00:19:03]. So what are your…
Tori Dunlap:
So what are your influence on that?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Do you still have $100,000 in your bank account when you die? Where’s that going? It’s probably going to end up going… But that was how many hours extra did you work to have a $100,000 left over in your bank account when you died.
Tori Dunlap:
Which by the way, privileged to acknowledge if anybody’s dying $100,000.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:19:24].
Tori Dunlap:
With their assets and their…
Kelsey Darragh:
I got my extra 100k just sitting in a random bank account. The cash under the bed.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
But it really, it opened up my eyes, not only, A, to… Okay, I don’t need to be as stressed out as I fucking always am. Because I was. That was my number one thing in therapy that I talked about was money stress. But also…
Tori Dunlap:
Literally, that’s the vast majority of Americans. If that makes you feel any better.
Kelsey Darragh:
It does and doesn’t, because I’m like, “What are we all doing guys?”
Tori Dunlap:
I agree. I agree.
Kelsey Darragh:
But then it also made me lean into the witchy shit of not fearing money. And once you stop fearing it, it flows to you. What we think is more easily, but maybe it’s just, we’re seeing it in a different way.
Tori Dunlap:
Or we have the tools to be able to manage it now in a way that doesn’t feel intimidating. I feel like it has to be a mindset shift. If you want to go woo, you can. Plus the practical element of it, because you can’t have one without the other.
Kelsey Darragh:
And it’s just about really, truly feeling what it feels like to have money in your body. What does that actually feel like? We see it as such a not… We’re not holding cash ever. It’s transactions.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and also cash means only what we give it meaning for. I literally talk about in the book of, I don’t want a stack of government issued paper.
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
That doesn’t get me anything.
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
I want what that buys me.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I want to go on a vacation. I want to go on a trip.
Tori Dunlap:
I want to throw money at abortion funds without even thinking about it. I want to go on vacation. Go…
Kelsey Darragh:
That book talks about it too, about people leave money to causes when they die. And the truth is, the causes could probably use the money now. And so I’m like, “Oh, okay.” That also changes my perspective of do I feel like I’m contributing in a way that’s actually tangible and matters right now and that makes me feel better.
Tori Dunlap:
One of my really good friends is not getting an inheritance from her parents. Instead, she’s giving the inheritance… Her parents are giving the inheritance to her every year.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, cute. Mom and dad, you want to do that?
Tori Dunlap:
There you go.
Kelsey Darragh:
I wouldn’t be angry, because I could use it now.
Tori Dunlap:
So instead of a lump sum of money when they pass away, it’s like, “Okay, I’m going to give you…” I don’t know how much she does. Like $2,000 a year.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s great.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
Amen to that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, no, it’s fantastic.
Kelsey Darragh:
I want more of that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. It’s I think a very smart way to do it, because she was able to take a yearlong sabbatical with some of that money and just like…
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s what I’m saying, and then you die with zero.
Tori Dunlap:
The parents are like, “Yeah, what’s the point of us giving her $500,000?” [inaudible 00:21:52].
Kelsey Darragh:
Zero is intentional too. It’s not like I’m dying with zero because I’m so scared of money that I’m going to avoid it. And it’s the story of the person that starts having success with money and then is so fearful of never having it again, that they just work and they work and they watch… Their kid grow up. They don’t get to enjoy the vacation. And then they end up with billion… There’s a story that he tells about his friend who is a multi-billionaire, but he retired when he was 40 something. And he’s like, “Yeah, I wish I would’ve enjoyed any of this money when I was in my 20s and 30s. I’ve missed out on so much opportunity.” And people are like, “Well, I don’t care. He is a billionaire in his 40s. Who cares?” It’s like, yeah but at what point do you have more money than you have time?
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and the funny thing is that a lot of the experts that we’ve looked to, the Dave Ramseys, et cetera, completely are the people who are telling you, deprive, deprive, deprive in order to…
Kelsey Darragh:
When’s he going to die?
Tori Dunlap:
Did we make…
Kelsey Darragh:
I just feel like if we’re talking about it. How much is he going to have in his bank account when he dies?
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know. I don’t know. I wish him and his children and his company the best.
Kelsey Darragh:
I don’t. I don’t have any reason to.
Tori Dunlap:
You don’t have any… You don’t have a horse in this race.
Kelsey Darragh:
No. You don’t have a… It’s like stop. Stop it, guys. Stop fearmongering people into your fucking business.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m just like, stop telling people to deprive themselves of complete and total joy, and that’s the answer. Because it’s not. 99% of diets don’t work because if you tell me I can’t have fried chicken, all I want is fried chicken.
Kelsey Darragh:
Does he know who you are?
Tori Dunlap:
That’s really funny you say that. We joke at the company. He has to know.
Kelsey Darragh:
He has to know.
Tori Dunlap:
Because we beat him on the charts. He’s blocked me on Twitter. Or at least his team has.
Kelsey Darragh:
He did?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, it’s actually, it’s like the I’ve made it moment.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:23:44].
Tori Dunlap:
Because of bunch of people, bunch of people, not even… This was years ago before I really started criticizing him.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh shit.
Tori Dunlap:
[inaudible 00:23:54].
Kelsey Darragh:
Or do you think he’s so old and out of touch that he truly has no idea?
Tori Dunlap:
I think his team knows. I don’t think he knows.
Kelsey Darragh:
But how old could his team people be? Because it’s not like he’s churning out fucking content.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, he releases a podcast episode three times a day, weekdays, I think.
Kelsey Darragh:
Three times a day?
Tori Dunlap:
Because they have the radio show and it’s three hours long and they just republish the radio show.
Kelsey Darragh:
See, you just proved my point. He has a fucking radio show. What are we? 1970.
Tori Dunlap:
He’s still number one though. And we’ll occasionally beat him or somebody else will occasionally beat him, but he’s camped at number one.
Kelsey Darragh:
Like I said, all these people, they need to go soon.
Tori Dunlap:
It worked for some people. A lot of his advice got people on a really good path. It was like a gateway drug. And I also don’t agree with this business practice. There’s a lot there to unpack, but it’s just, it’s like if you’re telling somebody to completely deprive themselves of joy, that’s not the answer.
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
And you’re also only telling that to marginalized groups. You’re not telling straight white men, “Stop buying your Rolexes. Stop buying your football season ticke
ts.” You’re telling women, “Stop buying Dior purses.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Starbucks. Okay, first of all, they are art. Okay. They grow with value. Can we look at the purses we have now?
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t care if they don’t grow with value.
Kelsey Darragh:
Recycled.
Tori Dunlap:
If it brings you joy, if it’s something that you like and you can afford it, great.
Kelsey Darragh:
I can’t really afford it, but it’s an investment piece and it’s grown and they’ve made me money.
Tori Dunlap:
See, for me, I’m not a designer person, but am I balling out on vacation on $300, $400 beautiful meals in Italy. That’s what I’m spending my money.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m not a designer gal, but am with purses. I’m a purse and a… I am wearing my Dior ring, but…
Tori Dunlap:
I love it.
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s little things.
Tori Dunlap:
I almost bought, last time I was in Paris, my first designer purse was going to be [inaudible 00:25:41] purse. And I loved it and I was obsessed with it. And it’s more money than I’ve ever spent anything.
Kelsey Darragh:
You bought it?
Tori Dunlap:
No. I did a whole lap with my best friend of the mall, literally. And she had to convince me, she was like, “You can afford it. Do you want it?” And I’m like, “Yes, I want it really bad.” And she’s like, “You can afford it. Everything’s fine.” We literally had a pep talk and I was like, “Okay.” 45 minutes later, I walk back up, I look at it, I’m like, “I don’t like it as much as I did.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Well see.
Tori Dunlap:
Didn’t buy it.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was an emotional high for a moment and now…
Tori Dunlap:
That’s why I gave myself an hour.
Kelsey Darragh:
You’re very good. I actually, I suggest that for so many people, the amount of times that you’ll see a designer bag and you’ll get high literally standing there.
Tori Dunlap:
Or literally leave and come back the next day. And if you’re still thinking about it a day or 48 hours later, great, then get it.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’ve had this conversation with my mom and I didn’t even think about it.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’ve had that… I’m like, “We’ll come back tomorrow if you still really want it.”
Tori Dunlap:
Nope. That’s literally what I recommend.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. I have so many questions.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay, sorry.
Tori Dunlap:
No, you’re good. About, as a person who has watched your content literally for years…
Kelsey Darragh:
And me now to you too. Isn’t that crazy?
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve literally watched your content for years. It’s crazy. I will have a full on breakdown. I have to keep going.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
Because I’m such a fan of yours. I can be a fan and a friend.
Kelsey Darragh:
Massachusetts. I can’t say it. Don’t ask me. Don’t ask to. Next Massachusetts, how we’ve grown. Massachusetts. I can’t say it.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. How did you get involved at BuzzFeed? How much BuzzFeed can we talk about?
Kelsey Darragh:
As much as you want? There’s nothing I won’t talk about.
Tori Dunlap:
Great, because I have some juicy ones.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. Okay. The only thing I probably can’t talk about is what other people made or make.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Kelsey Darragh:
Because I don’t think I know.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. How did you get involved in BuzzFeed, and did you know that you wanted to be comedian, creator, producer going into it?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes, a hundred percent, because I was already doing that just on a much, obviously smaller, not successful scale, but I was also like, “I want to be in Hollywood doing comedy, whether it’s writing or acting or SNL or whatever,” and I just saw the times of change and I saw this YouTube thing popping off and I was like, “All right, let me get this try.”
Tori Dunlap:
You got in on exactly the right moment.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was was truly the heyday. It was like the time. I don’t think it could ever be created again. It was magical.
Tori Dunlap:
And Facebook.
Kelsey Darragh:
And Facebook, baby. That was my bread and butter. That was my shit. Now I’m like, “Ugh, how do I go on this old fart ass fucking thing?”
Tori Dunlap:
But that’s where the videos were. That’s where the BuzzFeed video, the in-app videos were popping off.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, that was a dream. It was the days, glory days.
Tori Dunlap:
So Keith Habersberger, my king, Keith Habersberger…
Kelsey Darragh:
Hi, Keith.
Tori Dunlap:
Talked on an episode of The Tripod about how he saw his experience as BuzzFeed as a high dive ladder. And so he was like, “You could get off at any time and make some sort of splash, but the higher you climbed, the bigger the splash.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Wow. What a metaphor. He must have been high.
Tori Dunlap:
It was beautiful. Probably.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that might have been more high try guys episode, but I thought it was A, very poetic, but B, the idea of when do I get off the high dive? Do I keep going?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
And at what point am I pigeonholed? At what point… Was this how you saw your time there as well of, “I’m going to keep going. I’m going to keep going. Is it time yet to jump off?” What happened?
Kelsey Darragh:
For sure. There was a point where I was still with traditional management and agent before I went into BuzzFeed, and there was a point where they were like, “Hey, we can’t rep you anymore if you’re only going to do this, because we’re sending you out on auditions, you can’t go because you have work and you’re working there.”
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, so you were working, I shouldn’t say trying to work, but you were working…
Kelsey Darragh:
Before. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
No, but with BuzzFeed.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh shit.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I was still trying to go out on auditions and send in packets. I was like… I was an intern and then I was a fellow and I wasn’t full time until six to eight months into working there. So there was a period of time where I was like, “Am I in out? What am I doing?” And my agents and managers were like, “Is this what you’re going to do? Because we don’t think it’s a good idea, but we’ll support you.” And I was so drinking the fucking… I’m not even going to say Kool-Aid, but because it was actually happening, the digital era was taking off. So I was like, “No, this is what I’m going to do. This is the way I’m going to get to do comedy and write and do anything I want in this field. I don’t need a studio to tell me.”
So there was that arc where I was like, “Wow, this is the new renaissance. This is the new era of content creation.” And then there became a point where I think the people… Not I think. This is what it was. It’s like the people made that company and…
Tori Dunlap:
100%.
Kelsey Darragh:
Then there became a point where the company was still a company and they weren’t looking at people. They were looking at how can we sustain this business beyond what we’ve built? And then there became a point where I was saying no to things because I was working there that I wish I would’ve said yes to.
Tori Dunlap:
Were there any times you walked in an audition room and they’re like, “Oh, the BuzzFeed girl.”
Kelsey Darragh:
I was certainly afraid of that. Certainly afraid of that.
Tori Dunlap:
Because especially around, what was this, early 2010s, right?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Mid 2010s maybe?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. It was I feel still shat upon?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
In a lot of ways.
Tori Dunlap:
For sure. It was like, “Oh the quizzes.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Luckily all the jobs I was doing, it helped because I was doing unscripted panel stuff. The way I got my TV show was because they had seen me on BuzzFeed videos, and they were like, “You’re great. Go do that.”
Tori Dunlap:
You had a portfolio. You had a reel already.
Kelsey Darragh:
You want a host of a comedy show? I can give it to you. Watch my 900 videos on the internet.
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Kelsey Darragh:
So it definitely did help. I wasn’t trying to audition for a serious feature film. I think they would’ve been like, “Probably not great for our marketing, but maybe we could partner with BuzzFeed. I don’t know.” But there were definitely some things that I brought into the company that I was like, “Look, this is exposure. This is money. This is great for me and BuzzFeed.” Then BuzzFeed said, “No, and you can’t do it because you’re our employee.” And I was like…
Tori Dunlap:
Conflict.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. So after… I think after the AdultSh1t podcast that I did, which was my first podcast when I was still at BuzzFeed, when I was like, “Wow, we’re number one in comedy,” and “Wow, we sold out a 200 person theater on our own.” And they were like, “You can’t do that. That’s an HR violation. You can’t just make a show without running it past our events team.” I was like, “Oh, well I did it.” And they were like, “Okay, great. Here’s your assets and resources to film your podcast on an iPhone. Go do it.” I was kind of like, something feels off about this. And then you hear all the other stories and things that were happening with people there that you were like, “Okay, but it’s not happening to me” or “I don’t feel that way yet.” But I think you get t
o a point where you’re like, “If I want to really do what I want to do and if I want to have growth…”
And the snacks were so good there. It was, if you really wanted to give up all that came with working for a startup successful company, which is kombucha tap, massive…
Tori Dunlap:
Well, some of your best friends are now collaborators as well.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh my God. And we’re still best friends. You know what I mean?
Tori Dunlap:
That’s been so cool to watch, is it was very much like, “Yep, this company gave us our start, but also fuck this company and we’re going to stick together.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, and that has been why I’ve never really… I don’t have many negative things to say about my time there, because I also never… And this isn’t to knock on anyone else who was there, but I never put up with shit from the company. I was never afraid to ask for what I want. I never asked for permission. And then when they stopped giving me permission, I left, and I rode out my… I really rode out my contract at the end there. I was like, “All right, yeah, I’ll stay here while you guys figure out what you want to do, but I’m not coming into work and I’m not doing anything and I’m just going to keep collecting a check for a minute.” So I don’t feel that bad.
Tori Dunlap:
They had exclusivity contracts.
Kelsey Darragh:
Mm-hmm.
Tori Dunlap:
You signed one.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m assuming you had to have?
Kelsey Darragh:
Well, what part? When I left? While I was there?
Tori Dunlap:
Well, the thought that I… Again with you, the guys ladylike, all of these folks, I’m like, “Okay, so they…” So you have your IP, right? And then you have…
Kelsey Darragh:
We never owned any IP that we made there, ever.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s what I have always wondered.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s what was crazy. So that’s what was, I think…
Tori Dunlap:
And the exclusivity to them to create content exclusively for them?
Kelsey Darragh:
No. So we could go make a YouTube channel, we could go do whatever we wanted.
Tori Dunlap:
Which is amazing flexibility.
Kelsey Darragh:
Which is great flexibility. A lot of people did that, and I was like, “How do you have the fucking time? I’m trying to build a platform here to do that.” I think their downfall was like, “Oh, okay, this thing is working. Try Guys is working. Lady Like’s working. Well, if they leave, we still have it and we’ll just plug in other people.” And I think that was their biggest downfall was like, “No, no, no, no. That’s what I say when I mean the people made that place is like, I get you guys are trying to…”
Tori Dunlap:
Just get another crazy Asian guy.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. They’re trying to create franchises. They did it with Worth It. They did Worth It UK, and it didn’t do so well.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, I didn’t even know they did a UK production.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly. And then they really didn’t do great when they realized we weren’t just talent. We were the fucking producers, creators, [inaudible 00:35:30].
Tori Dunlap:
Well, the work horses, that’s the other… Yeah. It wasn’t like you guys were just showing up as talent. I think you all were brought on board to produce shows to create content.
Kelsey Darragh:
And they wanted to… Ultimately, back then they wanted to be a studio. They wanted us to just be talent. They wanted us to be like, “What do you want, kid? All right, we’ll make it happen. And then we could replace you if you don’t do what we say.” They wanted to be a studio, so that’s why you have to remember, at the end of the day, I don’t shit on them because they’re a company. They’re looking out for their shareholders. They’re not looking out for little old me.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and it’s also… If you’re making, I think, feature films or one-off projects, that’s different versus serial content around either a particular topic and or a particular person or group of people. That doesn’t work in the same way…
Kelsey Darragh:
When you swap out the lead.
Tori Dunlap:
Or when you change the topic that people had come to know or the premise that people have come to know.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
And be comfortable with.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I don’t really watch or know too much of what they’re up to.
Tori Dunlap:
I know nothing now.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I don’t know what direction they’re headed in now, but from just like little [inaudible 00:36:38].
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a lot of bring Tom Holland on to interview him while he cuddles puppies.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. It’s like keep the classics that they can, and then I think behind the scenes, they’re still trying to lean into studio stuff.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and everything’s so different.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I can’t remember the last time I saw a BuzzFeed quiz. It’s been a long t
ime.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s a really good point. I did that shit all the time in college. That’s how we got our news though.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, I actually think their news is now probably the most reputable thing.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, you’re talking about actual news.
Tori Dunlap:
BuzzFeed News. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
I meant just our pop culture news.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, sure.
Kelsey Darragh:
Remember? It was like, “Oh, how did you know what Kardashian was wearing?”
Tori Dunlap:
I’m still seeing… Actually, the way I’m seeing BuzzFeed most now is my Twitter updates.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, yeah. Same.
Tori Dunlap:
And then they’re just posting the article as a thread.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly. Which is…
Tori Dunlap:
Which I’m not even clicking, so how are you making revenue?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, no, their news team based out of New York really did some dope shit. They’ve done some heavy hitting stuff.
Tori Dunlap:
They have.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Made us legit, which is cool.
Tori Dunlap:
You mentioned when we interviewed you for our blog, that people have this perception that if you’re on the internet and you’re successful and you have hundreds of thousands or millions of subscribers that you are rolling in money.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh my God. It’s such a problem.
Tori Dunlap:
So when we Google you…
Kelsey Darragh:
Such a problem.
Tori Dunlap:
Google decides that your net worth is between 1 million and 15 million.
Kelsey Darragh:
What a spectrum. Wow.
Tori Dunlap:
Which you told us in the blog was definitely not true.
Kelsey Darragh:
No. It’s still not true.
Tori Dunlap:
What misconceptions do general public have about you and your work and your money?
Kelsey Darragh:
Here’s the thing. Here’s what’s crazy. I have made over a million dollars in my lifetime.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
I do not have it. You know why? Because I have to live. I live in LA.
Tori Dunlap:
You have to pay your agent. You have to pay your manager.
Kelsey Darragh:
I have to pay my employees. I have to pay for this house. I have to pay for food. The cost of living…
Tori Dunlap:
You have to pay to produce a project.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s hopefully maybe going to make money.
Kelsey Darragh:
I spent so much of my personal money on a documentary last year that thankfully…
Tori Dunlap:
We will link it, it’s fantastic.
Kelsey Darragh:
Was sold and is going to be coming out later this year in the festival circuit, hopefully bought next year. But that risk could have put me in financial ruin.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, tens if not hundreds, if not millions of dollars.
Kelsey Darragh:
I was still crowdfunding for a short film last year. I raised $10,000 to crowdfund a short film. It’s not like… I am definitely still… Compared to the rest of the country, probably doing great. Compared to LA, no, no, no, no, no.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
I am churning. I am getting my wheel turned. I’m not vacationing in fucking Peru. Although if anyone wants to fly me there and sugar daddy me, I’m completely available. I’ve got great feet. I’ve been giving free feet this entire podcast.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
We didn’t even think about it.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s literally the one thing I refuse to…
Kelsey Darragh:
You’re going to have to put a blur out. I’m sorry.
Tori Dunlap:
Literally every three months, I just go and search my name on wikiFeet, just to make sure we haven’t…
Kelsey Darragh:
What’s your rating?
Tori Dunlap:
No, I don’t have a wikiFeet.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, wow. I haven’t checked mine in a while.
Tori Dunlap:
No one fuck with… No one do it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Do it you guys.
Tori Dunlap:
No, I like, I will
know then that truly, I have A, made it and B, can die.
Kelsey Darragh:
But you know its us if we do it.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know. Men are creepy.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, but you know what? Guess how much money I’ve made from men paying me for my feet photos?
Tori Dunlap:
You do the feet photos.
Kelsey Darragh:
I…
Tori Dunlap:
Have we not talked about this? How do you do this?
Kelsey Darragh:
Tori, let me let tell you something.
Tori Dunlap:
Now I’m putting my feet under me, because I’m like… I can’t do it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Can I tell you a fun little story?
Tori Dunlap:
I did not know this.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
We wanted to have somebody on the podcast to talk about this.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, well, here she is. Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m not a legit… Okay, here’s how it started. I jokingly…
Tori Dunlap:
Can I see your feet? Is that weird? Yeah. You have great feet.
Kelsey Darragh:
I have very small feet and big arches, which apparently is a thing.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, I don’t have big arches.
Kelsey Darragh:
I didn’t know that, but…
Tori Dunlap:
My second toe is bigger than my first. Is there a market for that?
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m sure.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve heard that you either have to have the most…
Kelsey Darragh:
Mine is too.
Tori Dunlap:
You have great feet. You either have to have perfect feet or disgusting feet.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Okay. So here’s how it started. Okay. I jokingly posted a picture of something. I’m was like, “Feet.” Floods of…
Tori Dunlap:
On Instagram?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. On my story.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay.
Kelsey Darragh:
Floods of DMs, of guys saying, “I’ll pay you for foot pictures.” And I was like, “LOL, stop.” Then I was like, “Prove it.” And some of them actually sent me money. So I would like, no joke, I would just take off my shoe in the car, take a picture and send it to them on Instagram. I don’t care. Here’s a picture of my foot. Why the fuck do I care? “Oh, can you show me your soles?” “All right.” “Can you stand this way?” “Yeah. Okay.” I’m getting 50 bucks here, a hundred bucks there. I don’t care.
Tori Dunlap:
Is this Venmo?
Kelsey Darragh:
Venmo.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
So then as a joke, on one of the podcasts, I had made a joke of what if I started an OnlyFans, but it’s like my feet’s OnlyFans. Here comes the cat again. I started it as a joke where it was literally my toes holding a cup of coffee.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re given way too much.
Kelsey Darragh:
And I would be like, “Good morning.” And I would be holding a cup of coffee with my feet. I got 90 subscribers the first day I ever posted a picture. I’m still…
Tori Dunlap:
What was it like? What was the price to subscribe?
Kelsey Darragh:
$10.
Tori Dunlap:
So you made $900?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Is that how it works?
Tori Dunlap:
Right? 90 times a hundred. Yeah. There’s two zeros. 90. 900.
Kelsey Darragh:
I didn’t pass math. I still to this day am getting subscriptions and payments.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
From OnlyFans for a joke that I did.
Tori Dunlap:
One of your income streams.
Kelsey Darragh:
Five photos.
Tori Dunlap:
Are you still posting things?
Kelsey Darragh:
I had a conversation with my bookkeeper today where he was like, “What is this?” And I was like, “Oh, OF? That’s OnlyFans for my feet.” And he was like, “Kelsey…”
Tori Dunlap:
What are you doing?
Kelsey Darragh:
And I was like, “It’s legit.”
Tori Dunlap:
You’re like, “It’s money.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, and I don’t do anything. I posted five feet pictures as a joke.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I thought the… I mean, I guess it makes sense. I thought the majority of your Instagram would be women, maybe there’s women subscribers too. Who knows?
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s 90% women. But I have a guy in my DMs. I can show you.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
I can show you my DMs. Hold on. Let me get my…
Tori Dunlap:
See, my DMs are closed for many reasons, and this is honestly probably one of them. We’re getting feet updates live.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. This is the guy.
Tori Dunlap:
This is the most unhinged podcast we’ve ever done.
Kelsey Darragh:
Is it?
Tori Dunlap:
Probably.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, this is fun. This is my…
Tori Dunlap:
Usually we’re like pseudo fake professionals. She’s pulling out her tablet.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay, here’s a guy, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God. Can I read this out loud? Are you okay with that?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God. Okay. So she has… Oh my God. My God, this goes back in time.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. I don’t know how to look how much though, for feet.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, so you posted this June 30th, and it says, no free feet. And somebody said. “How much thou? T-H-O-U. How much thou?
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s very gentlemanly.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and you said a hundred dollars. “Okay. When you want to do this?”
Kelsey Darragh:
Sounds a little like, ” [inaudible 00:43:22]”. Me, I’m thinking, “Oh, he’ll pay for my Postmates, right?”
Tori Dunlap:
I’m such a huge fan of yours. No way. And then emoji, God, you’re such a flirt. Depends on what you want in your pic. Definitely. I’ve had the biggest crush on you forever from BuzzFeed on So beautiful as a person, but I would love to see your soles. I wish it was spelled with a U, but it’s not. And then she ghosted him for a night, and then he says, “We doing this?” And then the next day, same message, “We doing this?” “Yes. But you got to PayPal or Cash App first.” Cash App. And then it happened?
Kelsey Darragh:
No. And then… Oh.
Tori Dunlap:
Must have maybe happened.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, yes. Yes. So he Cash Apped me first.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
Then he said…
Tori Dunlap:
He responded to one of your things and he says, “I’m from Philly.”
Kelsey Darragh:
And then I said, “I love Philly so much.”
Tori Dunlap:
Bring your feet to Philly. I owe them a massage.
Kelsey Darragh:
And then I said, “I go Philly all the time.” This is great. And then, “I can’t believe those feet were in my city. When can I see them? You’re a dream girl. This is so amazing.”
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
“We still doing this? No feet? We doing this for your feet?”
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, and a picture of Hippo.
Kelsey Darragh:
And then I said, “I’m waiting on my Cash App or Venmo.” And then he said, “What’s your Venmo? We’re doing this goddess” with one D.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you God for not making me attracted to feet. He sends her a meme.
Kelsey Darragh:
I don’t get it.
Tori Dunlap:
You just let him in.
Kelsey Darragh:
Then he said, “Beautiful feet. What’s your Venmo? When will I see how beautiful your feet are. Goddess. Look at those feet.” This is what I’m talking about. Men are so easy to get money from if you just allow it to happen.
Tori Dunlap:
Little beans.
Kelsey Darragh:
And why do I care? Like I said, my feet aren’t fucking special.
Tori Dunlap:
You know that Mr. Philadelphia is here right now. Welcome Mr. Philadelphia. I will not give you my foot pics for free.
Kelsey Darragh:
Boo. But if you want them, break your coat a little bit. $2,500.
Tori Dunlap:
She’s expensive.
Kelsey Darragh:
They’re slightly hairy sometimes too.
Tori Dunlap:
Some of these guys…
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, my toes can get a little fuzzy.
Tori Dunlap:
I shave them. I refused to shave them for most of the summe
r, because I was like, “You know what? It’s my natural feet.” And then I was, “This is disgusting.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Some of them like to be findommed. Have you ever had a findom on your pod?
Tori Dunlap:
That’s also on the list?
Kelsey Darragh:
I might have a person or two to introduce you to.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re also trying to get Mistress Justine Cross.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, she would absolutely do it. I got her on the Try Guys pod.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and she was on the Try Guys with the…
Kelsey Darragh:
She’s a pal.
Tori Dunlap:
Is that Try Guys Game Time?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Try Guys Game Time. Okay. Got feet covered for you.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God. I can’t believe that. Okay. Transitioning.
Kelsey Darragh:
Transition.
Tori Dunlap:
Do people expect you to be a lot richer than you actually are or have false expectations? Speaking of parasocial relationships.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Do they expect certain things out of your career or you?
Kelsey Darragh:
I think because I’m pretty transparent and I’ve done podcast episodes about it. I’ve done stories and stuff about it that I’ve been pretty open. I think it’s an assumption, but it’s also not something a random person just comes up and talks to me about.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, yeah, because we don’t talk about money.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, and I think where it gets weird is if someone will DM me and be like, “Can you please donate to this thing?” And then if I don’t respond, which I don’t see 90% of them anyway, I have to find them, they’ll follow up with, “You’re a bitch. You can at least give me $20. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And I’m like, “Do you think I’ve got…” Or here’s a perfect example. I made a TikTok series about sidewalk shopping for furniture where we would find really cool pieces and we would either refurbish them and use them or we would donate them, but it was something that me and my best friend just loved to do on Saturday or Sunday. We would drive around town, we’d go get a smoothie…
Tori Dunlap:
HDTV, where’s her TV show?
Kelsey Darragh:
And people fucking loved it on TikTok.
Tori Dunlap:
Great.
Kelsey Darragh:
Then I started getting comments like, “You need to leave this for people who really need furniture.” I’m like, “People who really need furniture aren’t driving around Beverly Hills looking for sidewalk furniture,” number one. And number two, then I would get comments of like, “Why are you sidewalk shopping if you’re driving around in a Tesla?” And I’m like, “How do you think I got this Tesla? Do you think it was by donating money to people who yell at me on the internet?”
Tori Dunlap:
The amount of people who say to me in my comments, “You don’t own your house? You must not be a millionaire. Your hair looks like that? Then you’re not a millionaire.”
Kelsey Darragh:
First of all, what the fucking deal with the hair?
Tori Dunlap:
It’s always that, because it’s blatant, but veiled. Blatant, veiled misogyny. And it’s what we expect.
Kelsey Darragh:
Some woman to do with her hair?
Tori Dunlap:
Or what we expect rich or millionaire to look like.
Kelsey Darragh:
And you’re like, “How do you think I became a millionaire?”
Tori Dunlap:
Literally, I’m wearing a $10 Banana Republic dress.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh wow. Cute.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you. I wear it all the time.
Kelsey Darragh:
For 10 bucks that’s great.
Tori Dunlap:
I wear it all the time.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m wearing Freddy’s, my friend Freddy’s pants, which I helped her clean out her closet.
Tori Dunlap:
Lady Lake Freddy?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yep. Lady Lake Freddy.
Tori Dunlap:
Love it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Helped cleaned out her closet for her, so she gave some stuff. And this tank top, which is probably from Forever 21 that I’ve had for probably six years.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
There are things I will go out and show out for.
Kelsey Darragh:
Me too.
Tori Dunlap:
But it’s those comments that I really was like, “You don’t know my situation.”
Kelsey Darragh:
It’s the entitlement too, of, “Donate to my thing and then I’m going to call you a bitch if you don’t.” Or you’re taking opportunity away from other people. In some degree, I completely get that, and by another degree, we were donating items. We weren’t taking… There isn’t a scarcity.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a hobby. It’s a fun hobby.
Kelsey Darragh:
Trust me, there is not a scarcity of furniture on the side of the sidewalks in Los Angeles.
Tori Dunlap:
In Los Angeles. Right, right, right.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. So I guess that’s where it felt like… People felt like I was supposed to be something.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and it’s a lot of, again, the parasocial relationship of it all, where people think they can comment about your life and your choices, because everybody’s like, “I know you.” And it’s like…
Kelsey Darragh:
“Do you?”
Tori Dunlap:
“You know a little bit, but you know what I choose to show you.”
Kelsey Darragh:
You don’t know what the inside of my bones look like. If you want to, you can DM me.
Tori Dunlap:
You produced a lot on your own. What is that process like financially? Because you just talked about GoFund me for…
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, I fully…
Tori Dunlap:
Please help me get rid [inaudible 00:49:57].
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m going to make a documentary about this thing, and in order to get up there, because it was during COVID, and we couldn’t fly. I bought an RV. I renovated the RV. While I was renovating the RV to be drivable, to go up to make the documentary, I made content about it. Then people were like, “Why aren’t you wasting time building an RV if you are going to go make a documentary?” I was like, “Guys, I bought this with my own money. Also, I’m making content to afford the money I’m about to make.”
Tori Dunlap:
Exactly.
Kelsey Darragh:
And that is really how a lot of my processes work, is I’ll do certain things where I’m like, “This is kind of cheesy, but I’ll do it because now I can for a month go…” And I just shot my second doc up in Canada. I didn’t have to ask for any financial assistance on that one because…
Tori Dunlap:
Congratulations.
Kelsey Darragh:
Thank you. Because I was able to get enough smaller deals to say, “Hey, here’s my proof of concept. Someone now fund the feature version of this.” So now that’s what I’m working on with that. So it’s a lot of mediocre risk, high reward, but it’s because I’ve been in this industry for 12 years and made contacts and made…
Tori Dunlap:
And you can navigate it.
Kelsey Darragh:
And I know how to do it. I’m not being dumb, and like, “I’m going to put my whole lot of savings into this thing and I’m going to fucking hope it makes it.”
Tori Dunlap:
Well, that’s what we’re told though, is it’s like if you truly believe all of… I hate when people do this. I watch Shark Tank still all the time.
Kelsey Darragh:
So do I.
Tori Dunlap:
And people go into Shark Tank and they’re like, “Yeah, I’ve refinanced my house multiple times…”
Kelsey Darragh:
And my kid is not going to college.
Tori Dunlap:
And every time they come in with a job, they’re like, “Well, you don’t care about your business.” And I’m like, “Maybe it’s possible that this person needs money to pay rent.”
Kelsey Darragh:
And maybe they can also care about their business.
Tori Dunlap:
A hundred percent. As opposed to completely sacrificing any… Not even comfort, but safety.
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s such an America thing.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, it’s the [inaudible 00:51:49].
Kelsey Darragh:
If the founder’s not working on Sunday, it’s not going to be successful. I’m like, “Okay, so you want to die by the time you’re 40 from a stress heart attack. Cool, cool, cool. Enjoy that money.”
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and the idea that if you aren’t emotionally, financially, socially, all in, then you don’t care.
Kelsey Darragh:
Or that it’s like, “How do you think anyone…” I could have gone on a tangent. I won’t.
Tori Dunlap:
Go.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, I was just going to say, “How do you think anyone…” So many of us think that people were come from nothing stories became billionaires when it’s like, “This is generational wealth. This is a leg up. This is being projected to us.” And also then when men write about it, it’s a success story. It’s philosophy.
Tori Dunlap:
Elon Musk is a [inaudible 00:52:31] dick, and then when women have the audacity to talk about anything money, it’s like, “Why aren’t you donating more, you hag.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Or, “Why don’t you fucking donate to my birthday fund?”
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Kelsey Darragh:
I’m like… Yeah. Women write self-help books. Men write philosophy.
Tori Dunlap:
Say that the fuck again. Seriously.
Kelsey Darragh:
Women write self-help books. Men write philosophy.
Tori Dunlap:
Is that your quote? That’s fucking brilliant.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I was just thinking about it because I was like, “Is my book a self help book?” And it’s like, “Yeah, but it’s more tha
n that. It’s a survival guide.” We give men so many more luxurious assumptions that we don’t give women.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. I’m going on that now. Women write romance novels. Men write epics.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. They’re like…
Tori Dunlap:
There could be romance in Star Wars, but it’s not a romance.
[inaudible 00:53:25] and women are like, “That’s cute. You’re writing your novel on the beach during your vacation? Which by the way, the most fiscally successful genre of book is the romance novel.
Kelsey Darragh:
Is it now? So we’re doing it to ourselves. I like it.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s the romance novel.
Kelsey Darragh:
We support ourselves. We write it.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, I have this whole section in the book about how we weaponize women’s altruism for that same reason. Or we’re like scam artists or MLMs.
Tori Dunlap:
Wow. I can’t wait to read it. I’m going to pre-order now.
Kelsey Darragh:
Pre-order now. Thank you. Thank you for the blog.
Tori Dunlap:
After December 27th.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yep. You got it. Yep.
Tori Dunlap:
Right after Christmas.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
[inaudible 00:54:14]. Okay. Views and revenue. Let’s talk about views and revenue. Okay. So your average views on a BuzzFeed video were 14 million.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Much lower on your personal channel.
Kelsey Darragh:
For sure.
Tori Dunlap:
What emotionally was that like and fiscally what was the transition there?
Kelsey Darragh:
So the era, like we talked about Facebook, was 27 million views to a hundred million views was average.
Tori Dunlap:
What was it, the guy’s lady’s underwear video was a 110 something nuts.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was a bummer to me if I wasn’t getting 10 million views per video on Facebook. That was my bread and butter.
Tori Dunlap:
Was that something that the company was putting on you, or were you putting that on yourself?
Kelsey Darragh:
Both.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay.
Kelsey Darragh:
I knew… It was so easy to me. So when it wasn’t…
Tori Dunlap:
In what way?
Kelsey Darragh:
I knew what people were looking for. I knew how to shoot it. I knew what jokes they were looking for. I knew the identities I was hitting. I was hitting all of the age groups that I needed to. It was so easy for me to make a successful video.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you for owning that. I appreciate it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Well, I was like, “What would you guys have done if I didn’t do this? You would’ve figured out something else, I’m sure, but it wouldn’t have been this. I was the person that made this thing happen.” And so when the era of Facebook views were no more, it was okay. I had shifted into this podcast thing. Then we were getting on the charts for podcasting, and that was so exciting. That was the era of that. Then I was like, “Okay, I’m going to try podcasting.” Crushed it on podcasts. Tried that. And then I left, and I was like, “I don’t want to make YouTube videos, but I will because I want a creative outlet.”
And YouTube was never my vertical. YouTube was something I had to do as a person working there, as a producer. The goal of starting my YouTube channel was not for views. It was genuinely home videos and stuff that I wanted to talk about and remember. But of course, you’re comparing despair, but then you go, “Wait, I was working at BuzzFeed, which is literally a platform to make YouTube videos, and now I’m [inaudible 00:56:24]”
Tori Dunlap:
And also has a bunch of followers and a bunch of funnel links towards money. Massive amounts of money.
Kelsey Darragh:
So the goal was never to be a YouTuber. I’m making air quotes. I just wanted to make content. And so that’s been my outlet for my funsies little vlogs and my podcast, which does attribute to a massive amount of my income per year. I mean, as you should probably know, and it is… That it doesn’t matter to me.
Tori Dunlap:
What do you mean it doesn’t matter to you?
Kelsey Darragh:
Views, and… I don’t even know what I make back in YouTube videos. I don’t look at the [inaudible 00:57:08].
Tori Dunlap:
Like the ad revenue?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I don’t look at any of that because it’s not significant enough for me to put my time and energy and money. That’s not my job. My job is to be a creator, and I would rather put my efforts into something like TikTok that’ll get me brand deals or connections and partnerships that is where I think things are heading and what I’m good at versus trying to do something I’ve already done. And the same goes for Facebook.
Tori Dunlap:
So it doesn’t feel like a challenge to you anymore?
Kelsey Darragh:
No. It’s kind of like, “Okay, if I wanted to be a YouTuber, I’d be putting myself into such a
box.” It would be such a box to just do YouTube videos now after all that I’ve done. I’m literally making two movies right now. I’m writing my second book. Two podcasts. You can’t do all that and be a full-time YouTuber. You just can’t.
Tori Dunlap:
That was my next question, because you can do YouTube plus a bunch of other things, but for you, you either see it as you go all in [inaudible 00:58:03].
Kelsey Darragh:
That’s why I get the views and treatment that I do with my YouTube channel, because it’s not my main job anymore.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. You’re not funneling your energy towards that.
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
You happier for it?
Kelsey Darragh:
Fuck yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was fun. I did it. I got there at the heyday. I started making YouTube videos in 2010.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh my God.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. And it’s like, I did it. It was fun. I got the millions of views in my first…
Tori Dunlap:
When was it? Lazy Sunday was 2005, right? First real YouTube video.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, my… Yeah, something like that.
Tori Dunlap:
It was Lazy Sunday was one of the first YouTubers.
Kelsey Darragh:
I did Shit Girlfriend say in 2010, which had 10 million views in 2010. It was unheard of.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s part of when going viral was actually…
Kelsey Darragh:
It wasn’t even a word. People were like, “What is happening?” And then it was like, “Okay, cool. What else can I do?”
Tori Dunlap:
If you went viral, everyone saw it.
Kelsey Darragh:
You were on the fucking news. You were… Now it is [inaudible 00:58:59].
Tori Dunlap:
You can go viral once every couple days at this point.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly, and it still doesn’t make you money.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it doesn’t. That’s the other thing that I think a lot of people don’t realize is I can get four, five million views off a TikTok video.
Kelsey Darragh:
It doesn’t translate into money.
Tori Dunlap:
I know. People are like, “Oh, you must…” I’m like, “No.” I’m not even part of the creator fund.
Kelsey Darragh:
Me neither. Well, I think I got kicked out for talking about mushrooms. That’ll do pig. That’ll do.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. For me, it’s such a small amount of money that it’s not worth risking a dip in views because there was that whole conspiracy theory for a while.
Kelsey Darragh:
But you do brand deals?
Tori Dunlap:
We do brand deals, but I think a lot of people think, “Oh, you’re putting all this content on Instagram or TikTok.” And I’m like, “That’s to get money directly from somewhere else.”
Kelsey Darragh:
You’re also a business.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re a business.
Kelsey Darragh:
No, no, no, but… No, I agree. I’m saying think about the 15-year-old kid in Wisconsin who’s just making TikToks for free, getting millions of views, just being hot with a good jawline. I’m like, “That man is making no money. He’s not making a cent. He’s lucky if…”
Tori Dunlap:
All the people who are doing TikTok dances, because dances are actually not trademarkable. Did you know this?
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
I listened to a whole podcast episode about this, about the kid who invented the floss and then, what was it, Fortnite took the flos and he gets no money off of it.
Kelsey Darragh:
I heard he’s a dick.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know. I almost said, “I’m sure he is.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Well, you just said flossing of Fortnite [inaudible 01:00:31].
Tori Dunlap:
No, but Fortnite took it and he gets no IP compensation.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, but he probably made a lot of money talking about how he did get trademarked.
Tori Dunlap:
But it’s also, I’m like, “Give the man his due.”
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Credit where credit is due. Capitalism.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know.
Kelsey Darragh:
What’s that saying everyone says, “No freedom…”
Tori Dunlap:
No freedom under capitalism.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I get no feminism under capitalism.
Kelsey Darragh:
I mean, it’s not wrong, but also you’re not going to solve capitalism. Sorry.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you. No, I’m not.
Kelsey Darragh:
Sorry.
Tori Dunlap:
No, and I talk about that all the time. You’re right, there is no true feminism under capitalism. However, this is the current system that we’re in. And while we fight to change the system, you still have to pay your rent and you still have to buy your groceries. And I would rather get a lot of money and then fucking change everything than live very sad and lonely and upset and poor.
Kelsey Darragh:
Make that into a fucking TikTok clip, Austin.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s the deal.
Kelsey Darragh:
Facts.
Tori Dunlap:
And it can be done without exploiting people.
Kelsey Darragh:
Hey, speaking your truth now. Your speaking your truth.
Tori Dunlap:
I thought you were going to heya and I was like, “We can go to heya.” What do you wish people better understood about anxiety, depression, and other mental illnesses?
Kelsey Darragh:
Good question. For the people that are in it, I would say it is possible to still live a completely fulfilling life that is worth living. And to people who don’t understand it or don’t live with it or have never struggled with it, you should still fucking care, because guaranteed someone very close to you in your life does struggle with it. And we need allies as much as we need the people that are going through it to make any kind of change. We need people that believe us, that support us, that fight for us, that help us as much as much as we need the people who have it to speak out about it and give themselves love and self care and hope.
Tori Dunlap:
If you were to give one piece of advice to Kelsey the day before she starts at BuzzFeed, what would you tell her?
Kelsey Darragh:
Don’t do coke in the bathroom.
Tori Dunlap:
HR.
Kelsey Darragh:
I don’t work there anymore. No. That was one time. What would I tell her? One time my ass. I would probably say, “Don’t get as drunk as you are going to get at all these parties.” Not because of HR reasons. That fully didn’t matter, but you want to remember a little bit more. I feel like you want to have more memories here. Yeah. But if you can drink it…
Tori Dunlap:
[inaudible 01:03:27].
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. I was like, “What? I didn’t just drink and get paid What?” Yeah. “Drink a little less at all the events so that you remember a little bit more.” That’s a life advice that I give myself all the time. It’s just, “Man, I wonder what it would’ve been like if I got sober sooner.” But then you can’t regret.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and it brought you to becoming sober because at some point you were like, “This can’t happen [inaudible 01:03:50].
Kelsey Darragh:
Massachusetts. I still get DMs to this day.
Tori Dunlap:
Do you really?
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that one.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, that’s a good one.
Tori Dunlap:
Was it Tay Tay?
Kelsey Darragh:
He’s still there.
Tori Dunlap:
Is he?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
It was fucking hot.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s one of my favorite videos.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, me too.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like a comfort video for me to watch.
Kelsey Darragh:
It is for me too. I’m like, “Oh, you beautiful, beautiful mess.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s so funny.
Kelsey Darragh:
Hundred something drinks that day. Sips.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. It was a lot.
Kelsey Darragh:
It was a lot.
Tori Dunlap:
We’ll link it.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
She and Eugene drank a drink from every single U.S. state, the signature drink.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
And there were what, four dry states?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
So you had water at the dry states. Every place else was either the signature cocktail, beer, cider, or wine.
Kelsey Darragh:
We had to do shots.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I forgot about the shots too.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, cocktails.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Massive. Like hurricanes…
Tori Dunlap:
Mojitos.
Kelsey Darragh:
Mojitos. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Long Island iced teas. What was it?
Kelsey Darragh:
I think I slept for 24 hours that night.
Tori Dunlap:
Did you?
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See when it hurts you to think back on a memory, there’s some somatic, like PTSD. I probably still need [inaudible 01:04:58].
Tori Dunlap:
I just love the video because at one point you guys are all like, “Yeah, we’re going to do it.” And then you remember drink responsibly and you’re like, “Drink responsibly.”
Kelsey Darragh:
We’re like, “Oh yeah. Don’t do what we’re about to do.” Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
But please watch it over and over and over.
Kelsey Darragh:
Exactly. That was… Right after that video, I think was when I was working on starting my own wine label.
Tori Dunlap:
I didn’t know you did this.
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh, I was ready to have my own wine line.
Tori Dunlap:
Do your own wine line now and do…
Kelsey Darragh:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
Can you do non-alcoholic wines? Is that even possible from a…
Kelsey Darragh:
Yes. It’s very good. There are companies out there that are fucking doing it really good, and I hope to do some brand deals with them. I’ve done some. Hi. I’m cutting this into existence, but to run a beverage company, an alcoholic beverage company too. Logistical nightmare.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve seen it happen.
Kelsey Darragh:
Wow. My AC really kicked on there.
Tori Dunlap:
Really did.
Kelsey Darragh:
I was like, “What the hell? Is there a truck driving through the fucking front door?
Tori Dunlap:
Kelsey, where can people find you?
Kelsey Darragh:
Oh my God. @kelseydarragh. All the things and come listen.
Tori Dunlap:
Please buy her book.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah, buy the book. The second one will be out soon. I haven’t done a release date yet. And come listen.
Tori Dunlap:
Do we have a title yet?
Kelsey Darragh:
I think it’s going to be called It Fucking Hurts. Staying with the fucking title.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that.
Kelsey Darragh:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yay.
Kelsey Darragh:
Come to the dark side. It’s very fun over here.
Tori Dunlap:
Yay.
Kelsey Darragh:
Thanks [inaudible 01:06:16].
Tori Dunlap:
[inaudible 01:06:17] chat with you. Thanks.
Kelsey Darragh:
Okay. Bye.
Tori Dunlap:
Bye-bye. Thanks again to Kelsey for joining us. We’ve linked our website in our show notes, which has links to all of her incredible work. And if you’re someone who experiences anxiety, check out her book, Don’t Fucking Panic at your favorite Indie bookstore. It’s truly such a great resource. We’re grateful to have you here, Financial Feminist, and we’ll catch you soon.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Cherise Wade, Alena Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Kalil Demas, Elizabeth McCumber Beth Bowen, and Amanda Leffew. Researched by Ariel Johnson. Audio Engineering by Austin Fields. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First $100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram @financialfeministpodcast.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over one million women negotiate salary, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of almost 250,000 on Instagram and more than 1.6 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
