These days business ownership is one of the fastest paths to wealth creation and financial freedom. However, there’s one critical piece you’ll need in order for your business flourish — that’s the right mindset.
In this episode, Tori is joined by CEO of Hello Seven and Best selling author, Rachel Rodgers, to discuss the essential mindset shifts necessary for making million-dollar decisions, and not, as Rachel calls it, “broke-ass decisions.”
Their conversation also emphasizes the importance of setting firm boundaries, with Rachel revealing how vital it is for women to learn to say no and protect their time and energy, and the ways that entrepreneurial women are cutting themselves off at the knees by undervaluing their time and offerings.
Key takeaways:
- Embrace entrepreneurship for financial freedom: Rachel emphasizes the incredible opportunity entrepreneurship provides for building wealth. She argues that it’s the fastest path to millionaire status, especially if you’re coming from a background with zero or negative net worth. She details her own journey of initially making $60K in her first year of business to scaling up to multi-million-dollar revenue. She makes it clear that you don’t need an MBA or a perfect idea to start — all you need is the willingness to take risks and the ability to see opportunities around you.
- Boundaries protect your mission: Rachel discusses the vital importance of boundaries, not just in business but in life. Setting boundaries can protect your time, energy, and by extension, your financial goals. She shares personal stories about learning to say no, managing her time effectively, and ensuring that her commitments align with her larger mission, stating that saying no allows you to say yes to opportunities that truly matter.
- Million-dollar decisions vs. broke-ass decisions: Rachel and Tori discuss the differences between low and high-value decisions, and argue that making low-value decisions, like spending hours saving a few dollars on a phone bill, keeps individuals small and distracted. Instead, they advocate for focusing on high-impact activities that generate substantial wealth, like investing in one’s business or learning new skills that can yield higher returns.
- Community is currency: Rachel stresses the importance of surrounding yourself with a supportive community. When you have a network of like-minded individuals, you’re less likely to succumb to the negative stories that society perpetuates about money and success. Community plays a crucial role in providing accountability, support, and collective wisdom, which can propel you toward your goals faster.
- Change your relationship with money: Addressing the internalized beliefs around money, Rachel points out how many people—especially women—undervalue themselves. She emphasizes that making money and doing good can go hand-in-hand. She asserts that changing the narrative about money within marginalized communities can empower them and lead to greater societal changes.
Notable quotes
“If you’re a good person and you do care about the world, giving you a powerful tool of money can enable you to further that mission.”
“Say yes to the next thing. It doesn’t have to be your forever thing. It can lead you to wherever you’re supposed to go.”
“When you surround yourself with a supportive community who are on the same path as you, you’re going to go exponentially further, no matter how disciplined you are if you’re on your own.”
Episode at-a-glance:
≫ 01:46 First money memory
≫ 05:53 Astrology and success traits
≫ 06:58 Entrepreneurial journey and law school
≫ 08:44 Mission-driven work and financial well-being
≫ 17:27 Million dollar decisions vs. broke ass decisions
≫ 27:47 Entrepreneurship as a path to wealth
≫ 40:49 Understanding internalized misogyny and racism
≫ 41:06 The power of community support
≫ 43:17 Valuing your work and setting prices
≫ 44:27 The importance of personal investment
≫ 45:33 Entrepreneurship and personal responsibility
≫ 55:49 Setting boundaries for personal and professional growth
≫ 01:00:52 The role of activism and focused efforts
≫ 01:08:46 Handling criticism and staying true to your mission
Rachel’s Links:
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Meet Rachel
Rachel Rodgers is the CEO/Founder of Hello Seven, a company that teaches women, BIPOC, and LGBTQIA people how to build a seven figure business and create generational wealth.
She’s the author of We Should All Be Millionaires: A Woman’s Guide to Earning More, Building Wealth, and Gaining Economic Power, a Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon Bestseller, named one of Audible’s top Audiobooks of the Year, with more than 200,000 copies sold. Other books include We Should All Be Millionaires: The Workbook (February 2024) and Plan Your Year Like a Millionaire, Million Dollar Habits, and Six Figure Side Hustle (Audible Originals).
You’ve seen Rachel spilling the tea on business, money, and mindset on Good Morning America, The Drew Barrymore Show, and in The New York Times, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Inc, Cheddar, PopSugar, and Women’s Health.
Her mission is to help you end the cycle of over-working, under-earning, and financial stress—once and for all.
An attorney-turned-entrepreneur, Black woman, working mother, and self-made millionaire, Rodgers brings powerful insights combined with personal stories from her climb to the top. She’s known for her blunt advice and for calling out the elephant in the room—whether it’s racism, misogyny, or centuries of unfair legal practices that stripped financial power away from women and people of color. Rodgers teaches her clients how to make millions in spite of the very real obstacles in their path.
She’s the founder of We Should All Be Millionaires: The Club, an online network for ambitious professionals. The Club has helped thousands of people to launch successful businesses, build new income streams, and attain financial freedom.
Rodgers’ annual conference, ROI: The Millionaire Summit, is a star-studded event featuring the world’s top voices on freedom, including Pinky Cole, Rachel Cargle, Farnoosh Torabi and visionary entrepreneurs like Tabitha Brown and Arlan Hamilton, and 1,000 attendees from around the world.
Rodgers runs The Hello Seven Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit. Black women are 3 to 5 more likely to die from pregnancy complications compared to white women—and The Foundation exists to change these unacceptable statistics. The Foundation provides funding to families in need, helping parents get access to high-quality prenatal care and postpartum support, including doulas and midwives.
Transcript:
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Researched by Sarah Sciortino, audio and Video Engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First $100K. Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Taylor Chou, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Kurronen, Darrell Ann Ingman and Meghan Walker. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K community for supporting the show. For more information about financial feminist, Her First $100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit FinancialFeministPodcast.com. If you’re confused about your personal finances and you’re wondering where to start, HerFirst100K.com/quiz for a free personalized money plan.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Rachel Rodgers (00:00:00):
Who benefits me thinking that making money is bad, right? Who actually is benefiting from that? And is it me? Is it my people? Is it the people that I care about? I want to serve? Who is it helping? Right? Keeping myself broke.
Tori Dunlap (00:00:14):
Hi, team. Welcome. Welcome to Financial Feminist. I’m really excited to see you. Thanks for being here. Did you do something new with your hair? It looks great. Keep it up. I hope you’re having a lovely summer. I think we’re releasing this in summer. I’m recording this in summer. I feel like I’ve had more summer in the last week than I’ve had in the last [00:00:30] four years. I’ve swam in multiple lakes, I’ve swam in a really cold river. I am getting a tan for the first time in my life, which is very exciting. Yeah, I’m just vibing. Things are good. I’m just having a good time and this episode, I’m really, really excited for you to hear today because it is not only just really, really helpful and actionable and just powerful, but also because Rachel inspires me to be the baddest, best [00:01:00] version of myself.
(00:01:01):
Today’s guest is Rachel Rogers, who is the CEO and founder of Hello seven. A company that teaches women B-I-P-O-C and L-G-B-T-Q-I, people how to build a seven figure business and create generational wealth. She’s the author of We Should All Be Millionaires, A Woman’s Guide to Earning More Building Wealth and Gaining Economic Power. Other books include, we Should All Be Millionaires, the Workbook Plan Your Year, like a Millionaire Million Dollar Habits and Six Figure Side Hustle. She’s the founder of We Should All Be Millionaires, the Club and ongoing [00:01:30] network for ambitious Professionals. The Club has helped thousands of people launched successful businesses, build new income streams and attain financial freedom and her annual conference, ROI, the Millionaire Summit is a star studded event featuring the world’s top voices on freedom, including Pinky Cole, Rachel Cargill, sbi, and visionary entrepreneurs like Tabitha Brown and Arlan Hamilton. She also runs the Hello seven Foundation, a 5 0 1 3 C nonprofit.
(00:01:53):
We talked about a lot in this episode. We talked about the number one tool we both used to become millionaires and how [00:02:00] you can emulate or copy us as well. Her concept for making million dollar decisions instead of broke as decisions, which is something that I a hundred percent plus one, and the ways in which entrepreneurial women are cutting themselves at the knees by undervaluing their offerings. If you are someone who is trying to build their wealth, who is looking to take care of yourself, to take care of your family, who is a business owner, wants to become a business owner, any or all of those things, this is going to be an episode for you [00:02:30] and this is one that will be, I think one of those classic financial feminist episodes that people will be turning to for a very long time. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and get into it. But first a word from our sponsors, [00:03:00] because I always am like, are we going for six hours or are we going for 20 minutes? Exactly. You never know. Sometimes you get on these especially once in person and you’re like, oh, I’m about to have a three and a half hour conversation. I know
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:17):
Some of ’em are like, exactly. It’s like, let’s talk about everything about business that annoys us.
Tori Dunlap (00:03:22):
Yep. And you’re like, great therapy. Sounds fun, fun to
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:25):
Me. Exactly.
Tori Dunlap (00:03:27):
Are you still in Puerto Rico? Where are you at right now?
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:29):
I’m [00:03:30] in Puerto Rico. Yes. I’m getting ready to leave. So it’s like Chaos Central in here. We’re about to leave for a month.
Tori Dunlap (00:03:36):
Fun. Where are you off to vacation?
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:38):
Yes, we’re going to Greece for a month.
Tori Dunlap (00:03:40):
Lovely,
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:42):
Beautiful. I’m excited about it. Yes. We’re going actually with this company called Boundless, which is great for entrepreneurs who have kids. Yes. Have you heard of it?
Tori Dunlap (00:03:51):
I’ve heard of it. I don’t know much about it, but I have heard of it.
Rachel Rodgers (00:03:53):
Yeah, so it’s like when you travel and you work remotely and you’ve got kids, there’s a lot of logistics that you’re figuring [00:04:00] out and this company just does it all for you. So there’s a coworking space, there’s a built in community. They do educational programming for kids, so it’s just like all of it’s done. I was like, say less. Sign me up. Truly
Tori Dunlap (00:04:14):
Great. It’s like I remember going on a cruise ship for the first time when I was eight years old and they have basically daycare, but fun daycare. And my parents were like, no, you’re coming with us. But then I was kind of like, I kind of want to go to fun daycare though.
Rachel Rodgers (00:04:26):
Yes,
Tori Dunlap (00:04:27):
I kind of want to go to fun
Rachel Rodgers (00:04:28):
Daycare. Yeah, I think your parents [00:04:30] did it wrong.
Tori Dunlap (00:04:31):
I had a great time. I was eating four slices of pizza a day on the promenade. I was living my best life with my virgin daiquiris and my PB and Jelly, just a PB and j sandwich. I was great. Life was good. Hilarious to be eight years old on your first cruise. I’m really happy to have you. We love asking financial experts what your first money memory is. What is the first time you remember thinking about money?
Rachel Rodgers (00:04:55):
Yeah. Well, one of the earliest ones
Tori Dunlap (00:05:00):
[00:05:00] That answer was like strap in.
Rachel Rodgers (00:05:06):
One of the earliest ones is actually being in the closet, literally sitting on the floor of the closet. We had actually pretty deep closets. This is old apartments in New York City where they actually gave you decent closet space back in the day, and we were sitting on the floor of my closet, me and my mom, and we were taking quarters and pennies and dimes like coins and putting them [00:05:30] in those rolls. Anybody ever done that if you didn’t work at a bank or whatever, which I also did, but so we were rolling coins because my dad had this side hustle. He always had a hustle, and so the latest hustle was vending machines. And so he shut
Tori Dunlap (00:05:48):
Rachel, shut the fuck up. Do you know this about me that I owned vending machines as a kid?
Rachel Rodgers (00:05:54):
Do you know this? No, I did not know that. That is so funny. You said
Tori Dunlap (00:05:57):
Rolled quarters and I was like, that was my entire childhood. I owned [00:06:00] 15 of the quarter machines by the time I graduated high school. That’s amazing. That was like how I learned about money. That is so funny. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off. I’m like, that’s literally, that’s so simulation. Yes. That was my life. I
Rachel Rodgers (00:06:11):
Thought you were going to say your dad had vending machines. No,
Tori Dunlap (00:06:14):
I did and then I sold it. I sold the business after 10 years when I was like 20 to a 10-year-old who also happens to be named Tory. Wow. That was crazy. I have a photo right over here of the day. I sold my business.
Rachel Rodgers (00:06:25):
Talk about passing the torch. Yes, I love that.
Tori Dunlap (00:06:27):
So yes, I was doing literally on the floor, [00:06:30] we put a beach towel out and then all of the quarters would go down on the beach towel and then we’d have the quarter rolls and you’d roll ’em up. Yep.
Rachel Rodgers (00:06:35):
That’s so funny. Yes. So that’s what we were doing because I wanted to go ice skating with my friends and I always wanted to be doing things. I wanted all the hobbies and all the things, and I had friends who were squarely middle class where we were barely holding on to lower middle class. Really, we were low income, but my mom just was a hustler and my dad too. So they just figured out how [00:07:00] to get us into things. So we had friends, but all of our friends had more money than us in most cases. And that’s what happens is you’re only as broke as your friend group is. That’s kind of how you compare. So even this used to happen when I graduated from law school and there’s all of these wealthy lawyers now that are associates. They’re making 150 to $200,000 a year, but they broke because they’re hanging out with hedge fund managers who are their [00:07:30] clients, and the hedge fund managers make millions, so they’re at 150 to 200 K.
(00:07:37):
They felt poor. They were like, I’m low income. And it’s like, no, you’re not. So the relativity definitely matters when it comes to money and what you’re surrounded with. But yeah, so I was on the floor with my mom rolling quarters from my dad’s latest haul that he brought home. He did not own the vending machines. I think somebody paid him to empty them, and then he got paid a percentage of whatever [00:08:00] was in that vending machine, and he always got paid in coins. We’d roll ’em and rolling them and then taking them to the bank is how I got the $12 that I needed or whatever it was to be able to go ice skating with my friends. So my parents definitely made a life that we could not afford happen, you know what I’m saying? They really worked hard to help me to feel like I could have what my friends had. Of course, I, they had tutoring. [00:08:30] I was in the honors classes with all the nerds and they all had tutors, and I was super jealous that I did not go to tutoring. I didn’t go to Kuma and I didn’t have all that, but they did try to help me to feel like my friends. So yeah, so that’s probably my earliest that I can recall memory about money.
Tori Dunlap (00:08:50):
We’ve had some astrologers on the show recently. Do you fuck with astrology? Is that something you I do. Okay, so what’s your sign and what in your charts would say, yes, [00:09:00] I’m successful or, yes, I’m good at money.
Rachel Rodgers (00:09:02):
Fascinating. I’m an Aquarius and Oprah’s an Aquarius, so need I say more? Great.
Tori Dunlap (00:09:09):
It’s a period we’re done. Next question. Exactly,
Rachel Rodgers (00:09:12):
Exactly. There’s actually a lot of, and of course I’m just tuned into it because I’m an Aquarius, so I know all of the, I pay attention to the successful, but I think the fact that I am, I think what people say about Aquariuses is that they’re innovative, they can be future focused, [00:09:30] that we’re able to somehow emotionally disconnect and forge ahead, basically compartmentalize sometimes your emotions, which actually can serve you well when you have to work hard and be disciplined in challenging conditions. So I think those are some of the things that enable me to be successful that come from my sign.
Tori Dunlap (00:09:52):
When you were thinking about starting Hello seven and all the stuff before it, what part about entrepreneurship felt exciting [00:10:00] to you and was that always something you wanted to do even as you went to law school? Had all of that happen?
Rachel Rodgers (00:10:07):
No, I did not want to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to work as a lawyer in public interest, so I wanted to do socially good work. And then when I was in my last year of law school, I had my sister and she had a mentor who made more money than her, an older black woman who kind of took her under her [00:10:30] wing and taught her things. And so the two of them took me to lunch and they were basically staging an intervention on this whole published interest thing is not going to work. You’re going to need to make some money, maybe you could do that later, but right now we need you to make some money and pay these bills. So I had that conversation with them, which I was pretty resistant to. And then when you get towards the end of law school, they take you into a room and then in a small group, because probably they don’t want a riot to break out.
(00:10:59):
So [00:11:00] it’s more like just 10 people, not the whole class and in a small group and they give you a printout of all the loans you’ve taken, not just law school, but undergrad as well. So it’s kind of like a smack in the face reality check about what has just taken place and they add it all up on one document and then they show you what your payments might be looking like. And that was a horrific experience. So that was the defining moment where I was like, oh, yeah, [00:11:30] that conversation that I had, we’re going to have to get this money because,
Tori Dunlap (00:11:35):
Well, let’s talk about that for a second because you and I are obviously very mission driven. I think most of the women that listen to the show, I would say all of them, mission-driven, who want to do good things in the world, and I think we’ve talked about it on our show before, but this fallacy of nonprofit or mission-driven work is like, I need to not be compensated very well. That’s just what’s going to happen and I can’t unquote [00:12:00] sell out. And what my opinion is of all of that is it’s like you can do mission work and also get fucking rich. And I would argue that in and of itself is mission-driven work because you’re taking care of yourself. So maybe speak on that because I think that I see with so many women, they feel like it’s a choice either selling out and making a bunch of money or doing the right thing.
Rachel Rodgers (00:12:22):
Yes. I think all of that is part of our belief that we’ve bought into in society that rich people are bad [00:12:30] and that rich people do bad things. Rich people do bad things and poor people do bad things, and everybody in between does bad
Tori Dunlap (00:12:36):
Things. Money is inherently neutral. It has no moral value. It’s what you do with it.
Rachel Rodgers (00:12:41):
Correct. And so if you are a good person and you do care about the world, giving somebody like that, a powerful tool of money can enable you to only further that mission. So I think it’s really important, but we have to attack those thoughts and recognize where they come from and who benefits me thinking that [00:13:00] making money is bad, who actually is benefiting from that? And is it me? Is it my people? Is it the people that I care about and want to serve? Who is it helping keeping myself broke? So please, if you do nothing else, change that story in your mind. But yes, and also too, there’s also this fake nobility that comes with it like I’m better than others because I don’t care about money and I’m just like, I call bullshit. You’re lying to yourself and everyone else. You don’t have to be miserable.
(00:13:28):
I have friends who are activists [00:13:30] and have been activists for years, and they are very about their financial wellbeing as well. They know that their ability to continue to do the important work that they’re doing comes from their ability to also take care of themselves. So this idea that we have to be starving and that proves that we care is nonsense, and it’s fed to us by patriarchy and racism and everything else that’s designed to keep the people that I want to help from having money in their pocket. So [00:14:00] I’m like, if I’m not doing work that puts money in black and brown people’s pockets, in queer people’s pockets, in all of the people who are constantly marginalized by our society systemically, then what I’m doing doesn’t matter. So that’s how I feel. So I could be an activist standing on a corner with a sign, and I think there are ways in sometimes that can move the needle and put money in people’s pockets, but I want a more direct path for me.
(00:14:25):
That’s what matters to me. Did I do something that put money in the pockets of people who [00:14:30] need it so that they can take care of themselves and decide for themselves what’s important and take care of their own communities? To me, that’s what matters. Once I figured out how to do it for myself, I was going to do it for them too. And I think those two things, making money and helping other people can actually go hand in hand. And obviously a lot of wealthy people are the biggest philanthropists because they have the money to give away. Some of them are doing it for tax purposes, but I believe a lot of people are giving money away for good reasons. I’ve met a few billionaires this year [00:15:00] and I had all of these preconceived notions before spending time with them, and then once I spent time with them, I was like, oh, so you’re just basically me later on in life with more money and more resources, and you care a lot and you spend a lot, you back up your caring with money and you use your money to do good things. So I think we just have this view, but in reality, we like to categorize people. Billionaires are bad, rich people are bad. [00:15:30] These kinds of people are good, these kinds of people are bad. And it’s just really not that simple. Unfortunately,
Tori Dunlap (00:15:34):
We’ve had them on the show and they were also in my book Debt-Free Guys. They’re a gay couple. And they came on the show and they talked about we would go to these functions for queer at risk youth and we would give all of this money and then we’d come home and realize that we were still $30,000 in credit card debt. So it’s like that doesn’t work. You can’t be a philanthropist if you [00:16:00] are completely broke yourself. You can’t, I mean, as cheesy as it sounds like, you can’t pour from an empty cup. And so to your point too about the glamorization of that or the nobility of it, no, you’re just fucking yourself over and fucking your family and your community. You think you’re doing good, but you’re not doing good if you are not whole yourself.
Rachel Rodgers (00:16:22):
Exactly. You’re cutting off the opportunity. To me, this whole idea of I don’t need to make money, I don’t care. And it’s like, okay, well if you don’t need money, [00:16:30] who does? Who do you care about that does need money? And go get it for them? Because there are people who have different circumstances that make it much harder for them to earn more. So if we are in a position to earn, take full advantage of that. It is really just taking stock of the skills that you have. We all have natural innate talents that we can use to make money a lot more than we’re currently many of us making, but we have to make that decision and be willing to put the effort [00:17:00] in to make that happen. So it’s almost like the story, not to get biblical, but the story about the story of the talents, there was the one who buried the talents.
(00:17:11):
There’s the one who flipped it and turned it into more. There was the one who made a bigger investment and made even more. And it’s like we have these talents and we just bury them. We’re like, oh, it’s noble, or whatever, or we don’t believe in ourselves. And I’m like, please, can we get over ourselves and get the money that we need to back the political candidates that we [00:17:30] want to see in office? Are we happy with our options? I don’t think we are. You know what I mean? And we are in a position to do something about it, but we like to pretend we have no power. And that’s crap. There is a lot of ways in which we are marginalized that is 100% true. And there are ways in which we have agency that we are not capitalizing on and taking advantage of.
Tori Dunlap (00:17:50):
Well, to your point, and I have argued this for a long time as well, patriarchy, white supremacy, whatever you want to call it, is actively telling you, oh, the pursuit of money is bad. [00:18:00] You would be so greedy to ask for more money or it’s so, gosh, and my not so conspiracy. Conspiracy theory is that narrative that you think is noble and that you think is you being a good liberal. It’s not unless you lift off the grid, you’re still paying rent, you’re still buying groceries. So while we survive the system, we work to change it, but if you’re not surviving yourself, you’re falling into the narratives that they want [00:18:30] you to believe so that you are small and scared and deprived and tired. Because when you’re full and well fed and everything’s great, great. You get to start fighting against the system.
Rachel Rodgers (00:18:40):
Right, exactly. Call me Rachel. Go Rogers. Okay, I don’t care. I mean, be offended, right? Because of course there are going to be people. Let’s just be clear. No matter what choices you make in life, there are going to be people. Oh, people be mad. Especially today, people are going to be mad. People have commentary. People are very judgmental. [00:19:00] We need to have a conversation about what energy we want to show up to the internet with, because I feel like it’s fascinating. So people are going to have a problem with no matter what you do, so you might as well do what you want and do what’s good for you and do what’s good for the world. And often those two things are aligned. I think we try to believe that it’s not. And we do have a society that has been built on the very few benefiting while everybody else loses.
(00:19:24):
Let’s reimagine that. Let’s reimagine a world where everybody gets to participate. Everyone gets to have economic wellbeing. [00:19:30] I just don’t believe in the I win. You lose scenario. I think I can win, my team can win, my clients can win, my greater community can win. I want everybody win, win, win, win, win all around. I don’t believe in the win-lose scenario. And so if you decide that that’s how you want to get down, then you get to create that world for yourself. And you could see, okay, what can make that possible? What would that look like? And reimagine, we need to get more creative with how we’re approaching this because there’s so much possibilities, [00:20:00] not just the ones that we’ve been taught
Tori Dunlap (00:20:02):
In the spirit of building wealth. Something that I see all the time and that you talk about in your work is people, and I’ll especially call out women and listeners, this is what you do is you spend hours researching the right bank account and you call these the broke ass decisions, or you’re so stressed over the $5 latte when we could be spending that time. And again, I don’t mean to call you out, but I do, you could be spending that time negotiating your salary [00:20:30] or starting a business or investing, learning how to navigate the stock market. Talk to me about what that is. I think it’s perfectionism, but talk to me about what it is when people get so caught up in the things that actually don’t matter in the spirit of trying to get their financial shit together. And I’m putting that in quotes.
Rachel Rodgers (00:20:48):
Yes. Yeah. I think there’s a safety in it, right, in the distraction. You know what I mean? It feels safe because the alternative is, oh, I actually have to put myself out there. I actually have to take [00:21:00] a risk because that is what wealth is built on. Wealth is built on risk taking. If you’re taking zero risks, you are not on a path to build wealth, period, end of story. That’s what it looks like. So if there’s zero risk involved, then you might feel safe and you’re protecting your ego and you’re not going to fail publicly or whatever it is, but you’re also not going to win. So that’s why we can’t be making those broke as decisions, which are things that keep us small, keep us distracted, unfocused, and take away options. Whereas million dollar decisions [00:21:30] are the decisions that create abundance and opportunity where you see runway where you can’t even see the end because it’s so far out.
(00:21:37):
That’s what I want for us, and that’s available to us. Million dollar decisions create opportunity and runway and abundance and expand our world and expand our opportunities. And it requires us to expand, which is why it’s scary, because it requires growth and it feels safer to just, I’m just going to research banks, or I’m just going to research how [00:22:00] to save $17 on my monthly cell phone bill. And it’s like, girl, can we make another 17,000 instead of saving? Recognize that they’re both available to you in the same timeframe that you have. You know what I’m saying? So if you recognize that, then you can decide you’re going to go get after it or not. Maybe you’re somebody who just really doesn’t want to, and that’s cool too, but just know that you’re making that conscious choice and know that it is available to you. Also. This is my theory why some people hate me. I have to tell you,
Tori Dunlap (00:22:30):
[00:22:30] Tell me more.
Rachel Rodgers (00:22:32):
Because in the conversations that I’m having, I’m really showing people how we don’t really have excuses. There’s really nothing in the way except you and your choices. For most of us. I won’t say everyone, but I would say for the majority, there are really no excuses and there’s nothing stopping us from doing it except us. And when you show people that they can get mad, oh,
Tori Dunlap (00:22:58):
They feel called out.
Rachel Rodgers (00:22:59):
Yeah, you’re [00:23:00] not ready to face it. And so you get angry and you fight for your limitations,
Tori Dunlap (00:23:04):
Right? Well, it’s back to the, it’s the system. And I’m like, we all agree it’s the system, but you can’t just say, no, I’m not going to participate again, unless you’re moving to Alaska and living on the homestead, but nobody’s doing that, so you can’t say, the system’s fucked, so I’m just not going to participate. You’re still paying your rent, girl, you’re still buying groceries, you’re participating, and I don’t like [00:23:30] it either. I don’t like having to participate, but while we work to change the system, you need to participate and make sure again, you’re taken care of. And so I feel like it’s that same thread, which is like, well, it’s too hard to do this and it’s too hard to start a business because everybody who gets funding is a white man who gets vc. And I’m like, yeah, that’s not true. And also there’s something that you can do about it too. Yeah.
Rachel Rodgers (00:23:52):
How about you get to become the vc, right? I would argue that the system is more likely to change if [00:24:00] we become empowered within the current system. We have
Tori Dunlap (00:24:03):
Totally. Period. End of story.
Rachel Rodgers (00:24:05):
Bye. I’m going to leave now.
Tori Dunlap (00:24:15):
Another thing that you brought up that actually I’ve been thinking about a lot, and it was actually the more, again, more time I spend around people who are millionaires who are running million dollar businesses, I realized that when you get to a certain level, and for me thinking [00:24:30] of millionaire mindset, your currency is no longer money. It is time or energy. And even what you were just saying, of $17 when you’re broke, of course $17 is a lot. I’m going to go negotiate my cell phone bill to save 17 bucks. And there’s something though, interesting that happens where for me now, I used to be that I’m frugal to a fault. I would be on the phone for three hours with you to get my cell phone bill down $17. Now I’m at the point where I’m like, okay, [00:25:00] that $17 is not worth a three hour phone call anymore because I could be spending that three hours doing other things like making money, taking care of myself to therefore make other money. And there’s a massive privilege with this because again, I have enough money now where I don’t have to think about it. But man, can we maybe discuss the currency change that happens once you are not broke anymore?
Rachel Rodgers (00:25:26):
Yeah. Well, this is what I want for everyone, and that’s why [00:25:30] a million dollars is the floor to me, because a million dollars gives you options that six figures doesn’t give you from being able to buy time. How do you buy time by spending money on conveniences, paying other people to take care of certain tasks, having a team. There’s all these ways in which you can regain your time when you have money to invest in it. But yes, it’s so true. I mean, we have that conversation all the time. We’re always talking about offers that [00:26:00] our clients have asked us to create. Like, oh, could you do this? Could you do a retreat around this? Or could you do an event around that? Or could you do this kind of mastermind or whatever? And for us, if it doesn’t make a couple million dollars, we’re probably not going to do it.
(00:26:13):
It doesn’t make sense for our business, our team, just the back end of it, and it doesn’t make sense for my time. I even raised my speaking feed to six figures and they were like, well, only celebrities have that. And I’m like, well, celebrities and Rachel Rogers, because if I’m going to leave my house and travel [00:26:30] literally, if it’s not that much, it kind of doesn’t make sense. I could just be home with my kids on the couch, which I absolutely love to do. So why am I leaving my loved ones? And sometimes there is a reason. Sometimes there’s people, I’ve done speaking gigs for free recently because it matters to me and there’s a group of people that I want to reach and serve or there’s some opportunity, whatever. But for the most part, you really start to evaluate your time differently and realize certain things just are not worth the time [00:27:00] unless it’s something you really want to do.
(00:27:02):
So it’s just the economic evaluation is very different. And then I think about if I were to spend a day traveling, doing a speaking gig and then flying back, if I spent that same day with my team, what my team would be able to accomplish, the systems that we’d be able to create could free a thousand people financially. So it’s kind of like I’m going to go talk to a small group of 50 who great, I get to serve that 50, [00:27:30] or I can stay home and talk to my team, and now my team can serve so many more people than I can serve directly. So that’s the other part of the equation too, where everybody’s like, I want Rachel. I want Rachel, I want Rachel. Yes. But if Rachel’s on an hour long call with you, she’s not on an hour long call with her team, and then her team can serve you and a hundred more. You know what I mean? So it’s like you have to do, the whole point is to multiply the impact. So it’s not really about me only or what I feel like doing with my time. It’s like, okay, how can I use [00:28:00] my time to serve and really have the impact and really accomplish the mission, not pretend, accomplish it, not help 10 people or a hundred people, or even we’ve helped thousands at this point. That’s not enough to me. I want to help millions, so I have to keep marching forward.
Tori Dunlap (00:28:16):
Well, that’s why I don’t do one-on-one coaching anymore. To that same point. It’s like to get me, I would have to charge you an exorbitant amount of money that I know you won’t pay unless you are like a business owner to sit down and talk about [00:28:30] personal finance. I would charge you at least 10 K and you’re not going to want to pit nor should you. So we write books, we do podcasts, we do workshops even. We do broader. We do memberships. We do things that can allow you to achieve your goals, but I can also help thousands of people at once as opposed to one person with one hour.
Rachel Rodgers (00:28:52):
Totally. And also I will say too, I’ve done lots of one-on-one coaching in my day, and I prefer group coaching and community [00:29:00] because they’re much more likely to achieve the goal. So many times I would do one-on-one coaching. They would have a community that’s in their ear saying the opposite of what I’ve just taught them and advise them on. And then they’d come back and it’s like, I got to coach you on the same thing again that we just talked about two weeks ago. Whereas if I did one-on-one coaching, and then they went back into the community, which is how I’ve run my mastermind for years, it’s like the community would prop them up and be, they’d be coaching each other and holding each other accountable to this new standard [00:29:30] all the time. I was
Tori Dunlap (00:29:31):
Just going to say it’s accountability too. Yes.
Rachel Rodgers (00:29:33):
And that community is everything when people ask. That’s why it’s a whole chapter of my book. It is everything. If you surround yourself with people who are on the same path as you, who are supporting you on that path, and you get to support them too, you’re going to go exponentially further than no matter how disciplined you are if you’re on your own.
Tori Dunlap (00:29:51):
We’ve been talking around it, but entrepreneurship, I feel like is the key [00:30:00] to millionaire status for so many people. There’s a reason that I went from a hundred K at 25 years old. That was my first a hundred K. That’s how her first a hundred K started to multimillions at 27. Yes, saving, investing, all important things. You and I talk about them till we’re blue in the face. But if you want to know how in 24 months I went from six figures to multimillions, it was a business. Talk to [00:30:30] me about entrepreneurship. I don’t feel like people give it enough credit for just catapulting your financial goals yet alone. Everything else. Now, if you don’t want to be an entrepreneur, this next five minutes or so is not going to convince you, I don’t think. But if you feel so
Rachel Rodgers (00:30:44):
Passionate, it might maybe,
Tori Dunlap (00:30:46):
Yeah, I immediately doubled back. I was like, it might no, but if you are so steadfast where business ownership is not for me, but if you’re on the fence, Rachel, convince them,
Rachel Rodgers (00:30:58):
Yes, I think everybody needs to be [00:31:00] entrepreneurial no matter what role you’re in. So even if you’re an employee, think about how can I get a piece of this company? What can I do to make myself invaluable? Then pitch myself as like, Hey, can I get part of my pay in equity instead of just capital, just cash, just salary or whatever. But think of yourself as becoming an owner in some way. So if it’s not just straight entrepreneurship, then you can become an entrepreneur through employment or you can invest in other people’s businesses. [00:31:30] And so now you’re an entrepreneur that way, but maybe less direct. So there’s lots of ways to go at it. You can have a partnership, whatever. So think about it in different ways, but yes, entrepreneurship is a path to social justice. This is why I wrote my book, because I think that it is the only tool that I’m aware of where you can create that equal playing field.
(00:31:50):
People talk about investing in the stock market or real estate. You need money for that when you’re starting, I just assume that the people that I’m talking to, because this is who I was, have zero network, [00:32:00] zero net worth, or if you’re me, negative 300,000 because extra credit, and that’s where you’re starting. You didn’t go to an Ivy League school. You didn’t grow up in a fancy neighborhood. You don’t have wealthy uncles or aunts. I did have one wealthy uncle, but I asked them to help me with school. So I used my ass to get through my education, and they did. They helped me a little bit. Still had $300,000 in loans, but whatever. So if you have [00:32:30] zero that you’re starting with, what you do have is yourself. You have your personality, you have your natural talents and skills and strengths that you were born with, and you can capitalize on that package that into an offer that generates money.
(00:32:43):
And so if you are truly starting from nothing, entrepreneurship is the only way that I know how to build truly something from nothing. If you don’t have all of those things, if you have a network, if you have all these other things, it’s just going to go faster, which is amazing. But I had none of those things and [00:33:00] I had to figure it out from scratch. And I did have an education. So I will say that, and that’s that. So I think entrepreneurship is truly the fastest path to building true wealth. I mean, even when I look at my investments, I look at my investments in real estate, I look at my investments in the stock market. I’ve also invested in startups. And so I have these categories of investments that I’ve made, and they’ve all made me really good amounts of money, very strong [00:33:30] investments.
(00:33:31):
None of them have made me as much as my business has made, none, nowhere even close. So it’s like if I take that same time, energy and money and put it into my own company instead of something else, it will make me exponentially more than if I put it into somebody else’s business, the stock market or real estate, no matter how good the returns are. That’s just what’s been true for the last 10 plus years for me personally. So when I see that, I’m just like, y’all get on board. This is an opportunity. Now are you going to work your ass off? Yes, [00:34:00] but you’re going to work your ass off regardless. So you’re either going to work your ass off for somebody else or you’re going to work your ass off for yourself. There is no version of this where you don’t work your ass off. I mean, I guess you could get, what was it called, lazy girl jobs.
Tori Dunlap (00:34:12):
Yes,
Rachel Rodgers (00:34:13):
You can get a lazy girl job, but then we’re not talking to you, right? Because not somebody who’s trying to get truly financially free. If that’s your priority, and that’s fine. We can all have different priorities, but I think truly the opportunity is incredible, right? It is mind boggling. The opportunity I left my job, [00:34:30] I wanted to replace a $41,000 a year salary as a law clerk and be able to afford state level health insurance, some really good health insurance. So I’m like, if I could get those two things like, oh, if I make 50 KA year, I would be able to do that. I did that in my first year of entrepreneurship, not knowing what the hell I’m doing. I made 60 then in the second year, 300,000, and then it just went exponentially up from there. And now eight figures, and now nine figures is on the horizon. I’m going to have to work [00:35:00] to make that happen. But it’s a completely different set of skills now that is required. It’s about the team in the systems completely and partnership opportunities at that level. But that’s not something, when I started, it was $41,000 a year would’ve blown my mind. You know what I mean? So it’s just like,
Tori Dunlap (00:35:18):
I just did an interview this morning talking about 2020, which was my first, January, 2020 was my first month of full-time entrepreneurship, and I made $11,000 off a course [00:35:30] launch. And I was like, that was more money than I ever thought was possible. Yes. And it was at that time that was crazy. And now I’m like, alright, we blink and it’s 11 Yes. Sneeze and it’s 11 K. Yeah. And I can hear because dear listener, I know you well, I can hear what you’re doing is you’re like, well, I don’t have an idea. You do. Don’t give me that. Or, well, I don’t have an MBA. No one ever taught me how to run a business. Neither do I. No [00:36:00] one taught Rachel and I or either. Nope, absolutely not. You only figure out how to run the business by starting.
Rachel Rodgers (00:36:05):
Yes. I was just going to say, I think you’re at an advantage if you don’t have an mba. A no offense to the MBAs, but I think sometimes when you’re studying theory, the reality of entrepreneurship and the scrappiness of it, when you’re studying theory for at scale businesses, that is very different than the truth of doing everything yourself, figuring it out and betting on yourself completely, constantly, all day every day. It is basically [00:36:30] risk taking. But for those who say that they don’t have an idea, I also say, okay, what are you doing to foster an idea? Because I think sometimes we just take this passive position, again, giving away our power where we are like, oh, I don’t have an idea. Is an idea supposed to strike you from down from on high? Or what are you doing to foster an idea? Are you going to events? Are you meeting people? Are you going to museums? Are you listening to podcasts? Are you reading books? What are you doing to foster that creativity?
Tori Dunlap (00:37:00):
[00:37:00] Are you asking people what you’re good at? Yes. Or reflecting, oh, somebody comes to me for this. That’s why I teach people about money. Because I had friends who were calling me up and going, what’s the Roth? IRA? Can you explain it to me? And then I would explain it to them and they’re like, oh, I’ve never heard it explained as simply as that. And that happened enough times where I was like, maybe that’s it.
Rachel Rodgers (00:37:22):
Yes, yes, exactly. That was it. It can be just that simple. I chose running a law practice. I had just graduated from law school and there were not [00:37:30] a lot of jobs available. And I was like, well, I’m going to sell these skills I guess, on my own instead of getting a job at a firm. And was that my long-term path? No, but I would never have known that I was good at running a business if I would’ve never run my law practice. So my law practice taught me marketing, it taught me how to sell, right? It taught me how to manage a team. And it also taught me that I love running a business, but I didn’t like practicing law. So eventually I got out of it and took those skills and put it into something [00:38:00] else. So even just saying yes to the next thing, it doesn’t have to be your forever thing.
(00:38:04):
It can lead you to wherever you’re supposed to go, but you got to be willing to put something out there and try it. It doesn’t even have to be anything you’re in love with. If it pays you well enough and you don’t hate it, that’s enough for now. But I do think, to your point, personality assessments like strengths, finders, disc kolby, anything that you can take to learn more about yourself and naturally how you show up. [00:38:30] Because if you can align your offer in your business with how you are naturally wired, that’s going to make it, it just creates so much grease for things to go a lot faster than doing something that is very friction based for you. So if it was data crunching or I don’t know, pumping out reports or something like that, for me, I would die. That would make me miserable, and I’d find ways to avoid it at all costs. But if it’s like [00:39:00] my business is built around public speaking and writing and strategy, things that I’m naturally good at, then I want to do it all day. I want to do it even when I’m not being paid. So it’s a lot faster to grow. So it’s not about what’s hot right now. It’s about what’s hot for you. What are you hot for? That’s actually where your genius offer is going to come from.
Tori Dunlap (00:39:21):
And I’ll also say to people listening who are like, what if I make a mistake? You will make a mistake. A
Rachel Rodgers (00:39:27):
Thousand mistakes, 1 million
Tori Dunlap (00:39:29):
Billion. [00:39:30] It’s inevitable.
Rachel Rodgers (00:39:32):
I fail. Im, I need 1000 mistakes today. You know what I mean? Oh, me too
Tori Dunlap (00:39:36):
Again. And no one taught us, right? So we have to figure it out, but the only way you figure it out is by doing it. And what if you fail? Okay, then you go back to corporate. Yes. Okay. You can always get a job you hate. You realize it’s not for you. Yeah. You don’t like it. Okay. You do something else. Yes. I would rather look back at my life and be like, and again, stitches on a throw pillow. It’s so cheesy, but I would rather look back on my life and be like, you know what? I’m just really glad I tried that thing, realized it wasn’t [00:40:00] for me, but at least I knew that and I had a couple of fun stories. Great. Yes. Great.
Rachel Rodgers (00:40:05):
Exactly. Exactly right.
Tori Dunlap (00:40:08):
And if you’re someone who is, again, I really don’t want to be an entrepreneur, to Rachel’s earlier point, even if it’s not owning equity or you can treat your nine to five, it’s your business where it’s like, okay, I’m going to go out and I’m going to pitch myself for that opportunity, and I’m going to manage this so that my boss doesn’t have to worry about me. I will tell you, as someone who manages people, [00:40:30] everybody on my team who does that, they’re fucking incredible at their jobs because I don’t want to have to worry about you and worry if you’re doing your job. I don’t want to micromanage you. So you treating your project or your role, it’s your business, both literally a business, but also it’s your business is so, so helpful for me as a business owner.
Rachel Rodgers (00:40:50):
And if you’re somebody who has high organizational skills, operational kind of skills, and you’re like, I don’t have the idea, then go find an entrepreneur who has a big [00:41:00] vision and you can add your operational skills to it. Because what every entrepreneur needs is somebody basically, half my team are operators, right? That’s their genius because it’s so not mine that I have shored that up around me because it’s such a weakness for me. In fact, I’ve gotten good at operations just because I’ve been surrounded by gray operators for so long at this point. So now it’s like I know how to do some of the things. I still want to do it, but I understand it. So that is another option too, is you can [00:41:30] say, take your skills and say, how can I add the skills that I have to else’s skills? And together we can make some big thing happen.
(00:41:37):
So it’s just about looking for those opportunities. Again, like million dollar decisions, that kind of thinking to say, what are my opportunities around me? If it’s not exactly me starting my own thing, what else is available? Not nothing, right? There is something there. So when you get tuned into it, then you start to see opportunity everywhere. You have the opposite problem to what you were saying about earlier, where now [00:42:00] it’s like, I’ve had to learn, oh, you say no to 99.9% of the opportunities being presented to you. At a certain point, the only way to focus. I’m saying no to things that sound amazing to me. But I’m like, no, no, no, no. Don’t you put another thing on that to-do list. I know if I say yes, my husband’s going to be mad. My executive assistant’s going to be mad. The president of my company’s going to, everybody going to be mad at me if I say yes to another thing. So that’s what eventually happens. But in the beginning, you say yes to everything and just explore and [00:42:30] see what happens.
Tori Dunlap (00:42:32):
I learned a fun, a little alarming stat from you, which is that, hold please. Women entrepreneurs pay themselves 28% less than cis white men. What do you see is the reason that this undervaluation of ourselves continues? Well,
Rachel Rodgers (00:42:48):
Because of this internalized misogyny, internalized racism, we believe the stories that we’re hearing repeatedly, and it would be very difficult not to. And that is why community [00:43:00] is so absolutely essential. When I have Robert Hartwell, my best friend who’s giving me pep talks every morning, he’s singing songs on my, in our text threads every day about how amazing, I’m
Tori Dunlap (00:43:14):
One of the most lovely humans I’ve ever met, by the way. We just met in person, the three of us with Jenna Kucher, Amy Porterfield at a dinner, what about a month ago? And
Rachel Rodgers (00:43:21):
Lovely, oh my
Tori Dunlap (00:43:22):
God, lovely human being.
Rachel Rodgers (00:43:23):
He’s the best in the world. And he has a TV show coming out. By the way. Go look for it on Max. It’s called [00:43:30] God, what is it called? Breaking New Ground. The name has changed three times, but it’s breaking new ground. Anyway. But yes, when I have my friend who’s also on a similar path, giving me pep talks every morning, and then my dear friend Susan Hyatt is giving me pep talks every day, and I’m doing the same for her. And so then when something happens and they come to me and they’re like, oh, this person said this about my work, or blah, blah, blah. I’m like, what? Hell no. And so we’re immediately like, no, I will not [00:44:00] allow you to believe that. And here’s all the evidence that that’s not true. When you have that immediate reaction all the time, and those of course aren’t my only friends.
(00:44:07):
I also have all these other amazing entrepreneurs that I’m hanging out with all the time that we’re supporting each other. We’re sending opportunities to each other. We’re partnering together on things. We’re marketing each other’s work. That kind of community makes everything go so much faster, and you just won’t continue to believe the nonsense and the noise that you see [00:44:30] all the time when you have that in your ear all the time too. And that’s why podcasts are so powerful. Audio books always, always have something positive in your ears, reminding you of your power, reminding you of who you are, because the world is going to be surrounding you with bs. Every movie you watch, every sitcom, every commercial you see, there’s just crap everywhere. And so we have to counteract that crap by making sure that we have those positive things that are building us up and reminding us of what we are worth all the time [00:45:00] so that we’re not giving into those thoughts. So consistent. No one can escape it. Not a hundred percent.
Tori Dunlap (00:45:07):
I’ll show up a little vulnerably and also remind you all listening that I am a lifelong learner. Because when you and I met up, I had this moment where I’m like, fuck, I’m not charging enough. Me. Me. I was like, fuck. We’re not charging enough for what we’re about to build and what we’re offering, and I know I’m going to get shit about it. And people are going to be like, why is it priced so expensive? Well, because [00:45:30] I have a book and this lovely podcast that you’re listening to right now and six years of social media content. And if you want access to me, if you want access to live coaching and all of the stuff we’re about to give, what we’re building right now, it’s going to cost you. It’s going to be more expensive because we’re giving you the escalator as opposed to you figuring out yourself. So no, I had this moment when, yeah, you and I met up even, I don’t even know if you straight up told me, raise my prices, but just like we were talking and I was like, fuck, we’re not charging enough. I’m not charging enough.
Rachel Rodgers (00:46:00):
[00:46:00] Yes. Because it’s like, what? I don’t know. Something about it. It goes back to those things like, oh, well then I’m a wealthy person that people hate. And it’s like, yeah, you’re that anyway. Right? Well then people have to come up with how to pay for it. Correct. People have to come up with how to pay for everything.
Tori Dunlap (00:46:17):
And people don’t realize, I wish people realize this, and I’m not saying this, whether you give your money to me or Rachel or somebody else. When I pay money for a fitness class at 10 o’clock in the morning [00:46:30] on a Saturday, I don’t care how hungover I am I going to the fitness class because I don’t want to waste my money because I have skin in the game. If I were just to watch a YouTube video for free, first of all, I don’t do that because there’s nothing holding me accountable to that. And the second thing, let’s say I do click play. It’s a half hour workout. I quit after 10 minutes because I’m like, that’s enough. That’s fine. There’s something powerful about being in a room with other people. You can’t back out unless you’re [00:47:00] injured and you put money in. So you go, that’s what paying for things gets you, is you pay for what you get truly in terms of content and education and value. But you also realize, oh, I’m more likely to show up. I’m more likely to give effort because I have skin in the game.
Rachel Rodgers (00:47:21):
Exactly. And I also find that when people want us as leaders, as business leaders to undervalue ourselves, it’s often because they’ve [00:47:30] internalized undervaluing themselves. And I’m not trying to be an example where we just reinforce undervaluing black women. I’m just not here to do that. So this black woman is going to charge you, and if you are a woman or anybody, hopefully you see that and it makes you want to charge. I know when I go to France, I don’t know why, but I get this lesson every time I go to Paris. Every time I’m in France, I’m like, why do things cost so much? And then I’m like, I need to [00:48:00] make more money to even be in this city. Everything is just so insanely expensive to me. Like the food, the fashion, the experiences,
Tori Dunlap (00:48:10):
Oh, that’s how I feel about bars in New York. I’m like, you want $26 for a glass of wine? What?
Rachel Rodgers (00:48:18):
See, that doesn’t trigger me. We all have different triggers, which is hilarious. But when you or you stay at a luxury hotel and then you want to order room service and you’re like, wait, I spent how much on a hamburger and a glass of [00:48:30] sparkling water with lunch? Well, because
Tori Dunlap (00:48:31):
It’s not the hamburger, it’s the delivery fee and
Rachel Rodgers (00:48:34):
The tip on and the fact you don’t have to leave your room and you can stay in your pajamas and they’re going to present hot food to you. But every time I have those experiences, I’m reminded of, oh, I’m paying for this experience. I’m paying for this, and if I don’t value it, let me stop putting my money towards it immediately. Whatever it is.
Tori Dunlap (00:48:52):
If you don’t see value in me, fine. Don’t give me your money. Exactly. I mean, it sounded a little Fuck you. I don’t mean to fuck you truly. If you don’t [00:49:00] value my expertise in what I do, give your money to somebody else. That’s
Rachel Rodgers (00:49:05):
Okay. And that’s actually what the transaction does, is it requires people to make that decision for themselves. Do I value this enough to part with this money in this way? And some people have to save up for it. The bottom line is everybody pays. You are going to pay. So either you’re going to pay and lost opportunity and lost income that you could have earned because you didn’t want to take advantage of some opportunity to learn, or you’re going to pay the cash to learn, [00:49:30] but everybody is going to pay one way or another. So decide what things you’re going to pay for. It is just being conscious as you walk through life, being present to what’s happening and being present to the opportunities that are available to you and being present to the decision, am I going to take advantage of this opportunity or do I not want to?
(00:49:49):
And that’s cool too. You get to choose. Trust me, there’s a lot of money I leave on the table. I don’t feel like it, right? Or there’s money I leave on the table. I got kids, and it’s more important to me that I’m done by 4:00 PM. [00:50:00] It’s like we’re all negotiating every day our financial situation. We’re negotiating in our relationships. We’re negotiating work-life balance all day, every day. Be aware of the negotiation that you’re in and decide what matters to you today. Tomorrow, it may change. Next quarter, it may change school year. Mom is different mode than summertime, mom, right? Totally different needs, different requirements of my family, depending on what type of time of year it, and that impacts what I will say yes to related to [00:50:30] work. So it’s like know that we’re constantly in a negotiation and be okay with it and be empowered in it to make the decisions that are right for you and to get what you want. And then surround yourself with people who support you in getting what you want for yourself and who are on the same path. So y’all can cheer each other on.
Tori Dunlap (00:50:55):
Well, in what you said, Rachel, that I tell my audience all the time, what kind of hypocrite [00:51:00] would I be if I’m telling you what you’re worth, advocate for what you’re worth, know your value, and then I give you everything for free. I’m not demonstrating, I’m not leading by example. I’m not demonstrating what I want you to do.
Rachel Rodgers (00:51:13):
Exactly right. That’s exactly right. And frankly too, let’s be real. Businesses cost money to run. Nobody on my team works for free, unfortunately. In fact, they want benefits. Time off stuff. Crazy, right? 4 0 1 Ks, they’re so rude. Family leave. Exactly. Maternity [00:51:30] leave for how long
Speaker 3 (00:51:31):
You want me to pay you while you’re out and you’re not working, and then pay for your replacement? Okay.
Rachel Rodgers (00:51:38):
Exactly. None of this is free. None of it’s free. And the thing is, all of that goes into what kind of business do I want to run? How do I want to show up for my clients? What do I want? How accessible do I want us to be for our clients? What kind of systems do we want to have in place to make sure our clients get great experiences? All of that plays into the experience that you’re going to have to the point of you get [00:52:00] what you pay for. So you just got to make the decisions that are right for you. But we cannot run businesses for free. That’s just not how any of this works. There are some people who get a third party to pay, so maybe a corporation is paying for a course to be had, but to me, you’re always going to get more value if you’re covering it yourself or at least partially covering it yourself because like you said, you have skin in the game.
(00:52:23):
I’ve been doing this a very long time and coaching and education, it really works. It’s really powerful. Yes, there are scammers, [00:52:30] but you just have to be smart and make good decisions. But this is an investment that I have made many times for myself that I’m making currently right now. And every time I’ve invested tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands in coaching, I have never not gotten a return because I can count on me to show up, do the work, and get that return. And so you have to ask yourself, am I the type of person who’s going to show up and do the work and come to class and watch the videos and listen to the recordings and do the actual things that I’m being taught? And if I am that person, [00:53:00] then you should not hesitate to make those investments in yourself.
Tori Dunlap (00:53:03):
You just sparked something for me. Let’s talk about that with personal finance and entrepreneurship too, because I do feel like, okay, I’m paying all this money, I’m going to sign up for this coaching course. And what people do is they go 30 days and they’re like, I don’t see any difference. I don’t see any changes. Well,
Rachel Rodgers (00:53:19):
First of all, I’m not a million minutes, minutes.
Tori Dunlap (00:53:25):
You get these messages, I’m sure, because we do. And it’s like, okay, first of all, you gave me [00:53:30] get 30 days and you expect to be a millionaire. I mean, again, we’re over exaggerating, but there’s people who do this. All my students
Rachel Rodgers (00:53:37):
Are gone. It’s not gone. It’s not a big 30
Tori Dunlap (00:53:39):
Days. But the other thing too is that I am here to give you a map. You have to walk. I am not picking you up and carrying you. I can’t. Even if I wanted to, I can’t. And especially not at scale. I can’t do that. For the 5 million people who follow us, I cannot do that. So me giving you a map [00:54:00] implies that this is a mutual, Hey, I’m giving you the resources, but you still have to go and follow the yellow brick road. You still have to walk because none of this is going to happen if you don’t participate. I can give you all the education in the world, but if you don’t implement it, nothing’s going to happen.
Rachel Rodgers (00:54:17):
Right? Exactly. Right. So yes, unfortunately people think that at the point of payment, they’ve done the thing. Right? You know what I’m saying? It’s like to your point, your example of the fitness class [00:54:30] I paid for the class, so why don’t I have more muscle yet?
Tori Dunlap (00:54:33):
Why don’t I look like Dwayne the Rock? Right? It’s like immediately after my first gym visit, I don’t have biceps. Absolutely not, right?
Rachel Rodgers (00:54:41):
And then because I don’t have those biceps I need to take to the internet and call everyone a scammer, and it’s like I think you’re scamming yourself. You’re scamming yourself by not showing up for yourself and not being honest about what your efforts. So I think more personal responsibility across the board is required. And [00:55:00] that’s one thing that entrepreneurship will teach you. Like nobody’s business because the market is very unforgiving. And so the market does not care if you tried really hard, right? The market doesn’t care if you made it look really pretty. The market doesn’t care that you did 72 pieces of social media and 80 podcast episodes and all the things. If you’re not connecting, if you’re not helping people see how you’re going to create a transformation for them, if they’re not understanding the value, if you’re not hitting those marks, no one’s going to buy anything. People will not give you 50 cents [00:55:30] if they don’t know what they’re getting for their 50 cents. So that is the thing. I think entrepreneurship is the ultimate personal development path where it just requires you to be better and do better and let go of your ego and fail publicly. All of these things that actually make you a better person. I highly recommend therapy in tandem with entrepreneurship. That has been absolutely crucial to my journey.
Tori Dunlap (00:55:55):
I would argue you can’t do it without, because I tried. It doesn’t work [00:56:00] the same,
Rachel Rodgers (00:56:02):
But the growth that happens and the person that you get to become on the other side is amazing and is something that you just, you’re going to grow so much faster. The other thing is the leadership too. Learning how to manage a team. This is why I highly recommend people, get an assistant as soon as possible, even a virtual assistant for five hours a month. I don’t care how little it is. When you have to give somebody instructions on how to do something and you have to tell them their work is good or not good, and why, that is what leadership is. Learning how to manage [00:56:30] people and learning how to inspire people to take action. I think that is a very important skill, especially for women to capitalize on and notice that they have within themselves.
Tori Dunlap (00:56:40):
This episode is spicy in all the right ways, and I love it and I appreciate it. And if there was one thing that I took away from meeting you, what we were together for a couple hours, I was like, this woman knows how to set and keep a boundary. That was my big takeaway. I was like, no, it was so good. And it reminded me because I’m usually good at it too. And [00:57:00] then the internet gets mean, and then I become a pushover. And then I’m just like, I keep having to remind myself of a lot of the things we’re talking about. And to be honest, probably a lot of the people listening have not heard this side of me. Maybe this is how I feel most of the time. And then I put on nice, okay, we’re going to be nice and we’re going to be cordial. But I often am just like, okay, if this doesn’t work for you, great, move along. You don’t have to announce your departure. You can just depart. This is not an airport, [00:57:30] you can just leave. That’s how I feel a lot of the time. So I think for all women, how can women do more of the boundary setting, but also figure out what their boundaries are in the first place?
Rachel Rodgers (00:57:41):
Yes. Honestly, when I was writing, we should all be millionaires. And I was like, okay, what are all the elements to building wealth? And it’s like all the stuff that’s not money directly. It’s not always about what work am I doing? It’s like how am I giving away my power? What are all the areas in which I give away my power and therefore give away my money? [00:58:00] Generating possibilities and boundaries is so huge. And honestly, it makes me feel good to hear you say that, Tori, because I used to not be somebody with boundaries. I was a people pleaser and a pushover and let people walk all over me and do whatever they want. Take my money, take my time, take my energy. And so yes, I had to work hard to become this person that doesn’t fuck around, but boundaries, it’s really about you.
(00:58:28):
It’s about you and what do you want and what [00:58:30] are you doing to protect your time and your energy so that your dreams can happen? I think we don’t realize how much we just give everybody what we want, showing up to parties. We don’t want to go to saying yes to your boss for things that are on the weekends or nights and you’re not being compensated, and there’s no conversation about that. Telling your partner to build their own business or wash their own laundry. Tell your kids to wash their own laundry. First of all, mothers, let’s have a whole conversation about boundaries. If no one else reads this [00:59:00] chapter about boundaries, mothers, I need you to read it because trust me, we love to use our kids as an excuse for why we can’t have the things. And it’s like, no, no, no, no. They’re the reason why you have to go have the things, right?
(00:59:14):
They are your motivation, but it’s like people pleasing and giving everybody what they want all the time. And then you are last on list. You never get what you want. And then we go into, we get mad, we want sympathy, right? It’s just like in every way we’re taking away our power. It’s like, no, [00:59:30] let’s not do that. How about we just make the decisions in the first place where we get what we want, where we learn how to use our no, and we learn how to protect our time. We say no to doing our auntie’s taxes, we say no to doing our teenager’s laundry. We say no to our partner laying on the couch, acting he don’t got kids or acting he can’t make dinner. You know what I mean? It’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We’re going to have some conversations, okay, because I’m not making glass.
(00:59:56):
I checked. We both need to eat. Alright? And I can make dinner on [01:00:00] these days. These other days are for you, right? What dinner can you produce? Whatever it is. If it’s Chinese, that’s fine. Order it and you can pay for it also. But I am not your maid. It is wild how much domestic labor women continue to do, no matter if they’re in hetero partnerships or not, right? It’s like we just continue to do all of the work and not allow our boundaries to win and not allow our time and our dreams and our visions [01:00:30] to be protected. So I think we have to get really clear. And one thing I want to be sure about too, that people understand is boundaries are not about punishing people. You didn’t give me what I want, so now I’m drawing a boundary. No,
Tori Dunlap (01:00:41):
It’s not about them, it’s about you. Yes.
Rachel Rodgers (01:00:43):
That’s not what this is about. This is about here’s what I want to do with my time. And so that’s why I’m saying no, not some made up excuse not. I want to punish you for that last thing you did to me, right? No, it’s about this dream is really important and my space is really important. Taking care [01:01:00] of myself is really important, so I’m going to say no to these things. That’s what it’s about at the end of the day. And honestly, if you do that for yourself, you’re going to be so much happier. Forget the money, you’re going to have more money, but more importantly, you’re going to be happier now you’re doing with your life what you actually want to be doing with your life instead of letting everybody else get what they want. And you never do with your own life that don’t make no sense. And it’s nobody’s fault but yours. But that’s good news, right? Because then that means you are in a position to take care of that.
Tori Dunlap (01:01:30):
[01:01:30] I’ve heard it. Boundary is not, you can’t speak to me that way. It is if you speak to me like that again, I will do this or it’s not. You can’t do that in my house. It is if you do that again, I can’t invite you over, right? It’s like it’s not about the other person. It’s not about controlling the other person because that way the other person can make whatever choice they want. But it’s what you are going to [01:02:00] do in response. If you speak to me like that again, I will do x, I will leave the room, I will go on a walk and we can revisit this another time or I will leave. I will leave. And when somebody explained it to me like that, that helped me a lot because I’m like, first of all, that doesn’t work. If you try to control somebody else that doesn’t work. It’s, it’s
Rachel Rodgers (01:02:20):
Always a fail. Anger fail. You’re going to be aggravated. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap (01:02:23):
Yeah. I’m even scared. I will admit, I’m scared to say this out loud. It’s a recent realization, but I think you’ll love this. [01:02:30] I’ve been asking myself why I haven’t gone to protests. I went to the women’s march. I didn’t go to a lot of protests after that. I’m doing everything else good. I’m donating. I’m calling my legislators. I am obviously starting a business that helps women. And I felt very guilty for a really long time. Like Tori, why aren’t we out doing this? And then I would make up a million excuses. And literally something about two months ago in my brain, it was like a voice came and spoke to me and [01:03:00] it just went, you don’t want to,
(01:03:03):
Don’t want to. I will not do well. I’m a very anxious person. That gives me a lot of anxiety. I know there’s privilege in that. I’m well aware, but I am like, that’s not how I want to show up. I don’t want to do that. I’ll do a million other things. I don’t want to do that. And it was just the permission slip. I needed to just again be like, okay, the answer’s no, I don’t want to do that. And that’s okay. That’s a full statement. I don’t need to justify it. I don’t need to say just, [01:03:30] you know what? That’s not how I want to show up. It’s
Rachel Rodgers (01:03:32):
Being present to what’s true and being okay that what’s also true is somebody’s not going to like that. And it’s also true that that’s going to free somebody else.
Tori Dunlap (01:03:41):
Oh, definitely not going to like it. Sometimes I don’t even it. I’m like, Tori, why do we have this problem? And something in me, it’s just like, we’re not going to do it. We’re going to do all these other things, but we’re not going to do that.
Rachel Rodgers (01:03:51):
And there’s other people who don’t even think about ever going to a protest and never feel guilty about it ever in their lives. So there’s so many different ways for us to show [01:04:00] up as activists. And I think that if we focus on policing each other’s form of activism and whether it’s enough and what version it is all the time, and that’s our main focus, it takes us out of focusing on the actual real problem and the actual thing that is actually stopping things, yelling at your neighbor. They didn’t recycle that one thing, but having no problem with the plant down the street, that is actually the climate change issue. Let’s make the main thing [01:04:30] the main thing. And I think sometimes there’s some satisfaction and it’s like, well, I can’t get the plant closed, so making my neighbor feel bad is a way to get a little bit of a win.
Tori Dunlap (01:04:39):
Oh, yes, it’s power. Yes, my total empathetic, if I view this from a portion of empathy, suddenly we’re on cancel culture. But if I am looking at it from a place of empathy, you’re mad at this person because you can’t be mad at Nike or you can’t be mad at insert company or government here because you’re too small for that. But you can [01:05:00] come after Rachel or I or somebody else who you feel like on the internet and who also maybe reads their comments sometimes because you’re like, I’m mad at the system and this is the way that I’m going to speak truth to power. She and I are powerful, but really we’re not a government. We’re not the president. So even having this conversation makes me nervous. But we were talking, and we can cut this if you don’t want to talk about this, but we were talking about this at dinner with Rachel Cargill, and if you all are unfamiliar [01:05:30] with Rachel Cargill, incredible black activists who is giving black girls therapy for free and is doing amazing work and she’s getting a lot of shit for not speaking up or not speaking up enough about the genocide and Gaza, and it’s like she’s out here doing her activism guys.
(01:05:48):
She’s out here doing it and she’s not showing up how you want her to, and I understand that might be difficult for you, but you’re not mad at her. You’re mad that people [01:06:00] are dying. You’re mad that people are getting killed. And the way you are choosing to express that anger is on this person because you might be able to talk directly to her, but not to President Biden.
Rachel Rodgers (01:06:16):
Yes, exactly. And I think too, one of the things about activism that I think is really important is activism is setting up a system. It’s not unlike a business. Activism is not just [01:06:30] reactionary to what is happening today. It can be, but it is also setting up a system over decades that makes an impact and that changes things. And that kind of activism, I feel like goes unnoticed or ignored for the loud kind that is, I’m going to yell on the internet or I’m going to protest and march. And those things are important. But I know the activists, some of the activists that I know who have set up a system like Rachel Cargill, [01:07:00] they are changing the numbers in their arena. They are changing the game versus if she were to yell on the internet about what’s happening, maybe that would have some impact by the way she has.
(01:07:14):
But it’s like, is that going to be as much of an impact as this? Right? And do we get to just say there’s certain causes and issues that are going to radicalize us for one reason or another. We all have different ones. It was George Floyd for me, and I was radicalized [01:07:30] before that to some degree, but George Floyd was a whole nother level for me. And so it hits us the way that it hits us for whatever reason. And we’re all walking around numb to a lot of things that are happening in the world, right? Well,
Tori Dunlap (01:07:44):
We have to, in order to be people,
Rachel Rodgers (01:07:47):
We have no choice, especially with social media because you’re being presented with it in all day every day. And so you have to choose where am I going to put my time? Where am I going to put my energy? Where am I going to put [01:08:00] my dollars? Where am I going to put my activism? And it can’t, if you spray it everywhere, you’re going to have probably little impact. Whereas if you target Rachel has and say, I’m going to solve this specific problem and set up a system to solve it, you’re going to have way more impact in the world. So that’s my opinion on it. And it’s something that I’ve learned from activists that are mentors to me and have been for many years. And that’s what freed me to [01:08:30] be able to say, okay, focus on the problem that you are solving. You are solving a real problem.
(01:08:36):
And the more you focus on this problem, the more the people that I am helping are going to be able to solve other problems. And do we have patience for that? No. I mean, all of it is horrific and we want every problem solved today, but that’s not going to happen. So what can we do to set up systems so that we’re not just wearing ourselves out in all of our energy, but how can we set up a system to change the world? And so a small way could be like, okay, I’m going to [01:09:00] put $5 a month towards this cause that I really care about and I’m going to start with that system and that’s better than 50 bucks one time. And then it’s like, okay, great. Now I did that. What else? I’m going to volunteer every two weeks at this place. Okay, now I’m doing that. Right? And it’s like how can we set up a system to solve the problem instead of being visible? I think sometimes we are really focused on the visibility of people’s activism instead of what is actually moving the needle? What is actually helping people? What is actually solving problems? [01:09:30] What is actually putting money in people’s pockets who need it, right? Let’s actually focus on the thing that matters instead of the performance of it all.
Tori Dunlap (01:09:47):
Well, and let me do what I do best, which is teach women about money. I would rather use the platform. I do have to, let’s amplify other voices. And also to your point, let me keep doing the work that I know makes a difference because that’s what I’m good at. [01:10:00] And then amplify the people who are doing work in things I care about who are good at their jobs too.
Rachel Rodgers (01:10:06):
Yes. I mean, we’ve done things at hello seven and we’ve not talked about it publicly, and I don’t feel comfortable doing that because I’m just kind of like I didn’t do it so that I could prove to everybody I’m doing the thing, and it’s like I’m okay with people being wrong about me. And let me say that that is one thing that can free you immensely. I’m learning it when you, not just you, but everybody, right?
Tori Dunlap (01:10:29):
No, I’m saying [01:10:30] again, I had to learn it and I’m still learning it.
Rachel Rodgers (01:10:32):
I have
Tori Dunlap (01:10:33):
To be okay being misunderstood, and that is very difficult for me. Yes, very difficult.
Rachel Rodgers (01:10:37):
And I think I just have more years in than you, right? So that’s really the only difference. So over that time period, I’ve just gotten more comfortable in accepting that people are going to call me out my name, people are going to describe me in ways that could not be more far from the truth. And I am not going to go around correcting them all. I don’t have time. And truly [01:11:00] the beautiful thing now is I mostly don’t care. You know what I mean? Well,
Tori Dunlap (01:11:04):
And even if, okay, let’s say I did have a debate with you because I did this for a lot of last year is every night as I went to bed, literally every single night, my brain would do the, I’m going to defend myself against everything people are saying about me. That weirdly soothed me. But then it made me more stressed and it was like, okay, so Tori, let’s say you did get to do that. That person doesn’t want to be convinced again. They’re not really mad at you. They’re not really mad at you. They’re mad [01:11:30] at a system that’s fucked them, and I have all of the empathy in the world and understanding for that. I’m just the thing again that you feel like I have a little bit of power, I can tell her I don’t like this. Okay? Really what you’re saying is I don’t like the system that exists and I’m mad at the system that exists. Girl, same agree.
Rachel Rodgers (01:11:53):
Or maybe they just really hate you also
Tori Dunlap (01:11:55):
That
Rachel Rodgers (01:11:56):
Maybe they hate your face. Maybe they hate the way you dress. Maybe they hate your voice. [01:12:00] That’s just reality, right? We’re going to be disliked by people.
Tori Dunlap (01:12:03):
Those are the men who call me fat on the internet, who I’m like, I don’t care. I would fucking care. Great engagement. Thank you. Keep calling me fat on the internet. Let’s go. Engagement, engagement, engagement algorithm.
Rachel Rodgers (01:12:14):
Yay. Christina Kitz, I think I told you this. She told me when people write really vile things, she just says, no, thank you. She just responds and it confuses them. They don’t know what to do with that, and it’s just ends the conversation, which is hilarious. And she has definitely [01:12:30] experienced her fair share, but I think just freeing yourself of what people think about you. And when you are focused on your mission and when you are focused on what you know you’re here to do and you’re following your God-given assignment, what everybody says doesn’t matter, right? It’s just am I doing the thing that I know I need to be doing? Am I in integrity with myself? I’m not here to prove my integrity to the world. I don’t have all day to do that. I’m here to do this assignment. If I start proving my integrity to everybody, then I don’t have time to do my assignment.
Tori Dunlap (01:13:00):
[01:13:00] That’s the current assignment,
Rachel Rodgers (01:13:01):
Correct. So it’s just kind of like, no. And trust me, there will be days where somebody will get corrected. Just the tip. I’m on that day, right? Or there are
Tori Dunlap (01:13:10):
Times, and I also say too, because I can hear people too, we’re not talking about real genuine feedback that needs changing. Yes. That’s not what we’re talking about here because that is different.
Rachel Rodgers (01:13:21):
I agree. I agree. And I would argue, at least the friends that I know, most entrepreneurs that I talk to that are in my circle, [01:13:30] there are other people that are very open to feedback and are actually seeking feedback all the time from their audiences, sending out surveys to get feedback, asking their audience opinions, and being willing to hear, we just did this today on my team. We did a town hall with my team, and me and the executive team just listened to what the team had to say about any and everything. Give us your feedback. What could we be doing better? We specifically asked, how can we show up better for you? And among a bunch of other things. [01:14:00] So I think that at least I can speak for myself. I am very open to feedback and also if your feedback is just like I’m a vile person and you hate me.
(01:14:10):
Thanks. No, thank you. Right? Like Christina Uzman, thank you. No thanks. No, thanks. Bye. Thanks. But really just really for the people listening for their own selves, I think this is the stuff about entrepreneurship that scares people from going and doing it, putting themselves out there As a business owner, you are going to be critiqued. Whether [01:14:30] you work as an employee or you’re an entrepreneur, you’re going to be critiqued. No matter what you do, people are going to have judgements about you. And I think us being okay with that and learning to live with it and not having it change our being, you know what I mean? People leave and it’s so funny because it’s both all the time. So it’ll be like five star reviews and then one star review from somebody who hates my existence, hates my voice, hates everything I said, hates my politics, hates everything.
(01:14:59):
And it’s just like [01:15:00] that will always be the case. And you need to not care about the love, just like you don’t care about the negative commentary. That is the only way to exist. To me. That is the only way to survive it is to recognize that the people who love you great and the people who hate you also great. And none of it matters because what really matters is how do you feel about you? As cheesy as it sounds, that is the truth of it. How do you truly feel about you? How do you feel about how you’re showing up? How do you feel about what you’re doing? Only you really know. And [01:15:30] so if you’re good with you, then it doesn’t matter, right? People tell me they love me, they tell me they appreciate my work. I’m grateful for that, and it doesn’t really change how I feel about myself at all, and I also take it with a grain of salt just because those same people who love you will hate you in five minutes, and the people who hate you will love you. 10 minutes later, Beyonce talks about in her lyrics about how fickle audiences can be, and it is true. We change our minds all the time, which is why you shouldn’t put so much stock [01:16:00] in what somebody thinks about you, which is why you got to be good with you.
Tori Dunlap (01:16:03):
Oh, yeah. I told this story on the podcast before, but you’ll really appreciate it. Literally woman messaged us on Instagram and is like, your content saved my financial life. I am so thankful. It’s absolutely incredible. Not 12 hours later, I’m not kidding. Eight hours later, I post something about Gaza Genocide and she’s like, unfollowing. Like eight hours later, I was this woman’s best [01:16:30] friend. I literally posted it in our Slack internally at her first enter K, and I was like, is this a reminder to myself and to her entire team that this is not what we’re chasing? It’s just like, again, they want you at one thing and then you do something they don’t like, and they’re gone in a second. It’s just like, yeah, you got to be okay with you. You got to be okay doing what you’re doing.
Rachel Rodgers (01:16:52):
Yes. What I get excited about is when people tell me, I joined the club and I made a hundred thousand dollars, or I took this program [01:17:00] and here’s where my business is at now. I now have a team. I’m now doing this.
Tori Dunlap (01:17:04):
I left my abusive marriage because I was able to afford my groceries
Rachel Rodgers (01:17:10):
Now. Yes, exactly. It’s like, am I achieving my assignment? Am I achieving the mission? Are we my team and I achieving our mission? If we are, then that’s what matters to me most versus you love me or you hate me because those, you could love me, but we could not be achieving our mission. And so I’m still not satisfied [01:17:30] even if you love me. So just know what the goal is. And I think sometimes you just have to go through it and experience it, and then you learn how to dance with it, live with it, negotiate with it, and you learn how to focus on you and the people who matter to me most, the closest people to me, if they say that I’m not showing up or I did something or whatever, then I’m really paying attention.
Tori Dunlap (01:17:57):
Right, because you respect their opinion.
Rachel Rodgers (01:17:58):
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap (01:17:59):
So you respect [01:18:00] their feedback.
Rachel Rodgers (01:18:00):
Hello. This is a whole video that I’ve had planned forever and I just keep forgetting to do, but it’s like, can we talk about who we accept feedback from because not everybody is on the board.
Tori Dunlap (01:18:11):
Yeah. If I wouldn’t take your feedback, I’m not going to take your opinion. If I wouldn’t take your opinion, I’m not going to take your feedback. Yes,
Rachel Rodgers (01:18:19):
Yes.
Tori Dunlap (01:18:20):
If I wouldn’t get advice from you not taking your feedback.
Rachel Rodgers (01:18:22):
Yeah. It’s like if I didn’t know who Brown 12, 6 4 was yesterday and care about their opinion yesterday, [01:18:30] why do I care so much today? And is it like maybe I care because what they said is true, and I know it’s true for me, and I need to go deal with that and check myself, right? But if not, then it’s like, okay, well listen. Good luck to you, friend. You know what I mean? I wish you well. Truly I have no, ill will be blessed. Let’s
Tori Dunlap (01:18:49):
Move on with our lives. No, thank you. So
Rachel Rodgers (01:18:51):
Yeah, thank you. No, thank you. Thank you,
Tori Dunlap (01:18:55):
Rachel. Thank you for therapy. I will send you a Venmo. Where can people find [01:19:00] out more about you? You have books, multiple books. Plug Away My Friend.
Rachel Rodgers (01:19:04):
Yes. One new book that just came out out. Million Dollar Action that is
Tori Dunlap (01:19:08):
Sold out as of this podcast, but we hopefully it should be back in stock. If it’s not. We have bigger problems,
Rachel Rodgers (01:19:15):
Good problems to have yet still a problem. But it is a second print run is supposed to be reaching stores very soon, so hopefully you’ll be able to get it. And if you get two copies, you can come to our virtual event that we’re doing completely free of you by two copies of the book. So [01:19:30] if you go to million dollar action.com, you can get all the details on that. That virtual event is happening in August. We’re doing an amazing challenge for entrepreneurs. So if you’re a newer entrepreneur, you’re becoming an entrepreneur, or you’re already an established entrepreneur and you’re wanting to scale your business, you should join our challenge. You go to hello seven.co/challenge. It’s completely free. We’re going to work with you for a week and help you get some incredible results, coaching community, all the things we’ve been talking about today. So go to hello seven.co/challenge [01:20:00] to get all of those details. And I’m on Instagram, Rachel Rogers, ESQ, and the Hello seven podcast is coming back very soon so you can listen to us there.
Tori Dunlap (01:20:09):
Apprecia te you both for coming on the show and appreciate your presence. So thank you, thank
Rachel Rodgers (01:20:13):
You. Thank you for having me.
Tori Dunlap (01:20:16):
Thank you to Rachel for joining us. You can find her work, including her books, anywhere you get your books. We should All Be Millionaires is her debut book, and you can follow her on Instagram at Rach Rogers sq like Esquire because she’s [01:20:30] a lawyer. Thank you for being here. As always, if you love the show, please share this episode. Please like and subscribe wherever you’re listening right now. That’s the best way to support our show. So if you subscribe and then just turn on auto downloads, wherever you’re listening right now, apple, Spotify, et cetera. You’ve just helped support our work in a way that literally didn’t cost you anything. We really appreciate your support. Thank you as always for being here, and we’ll talk to you later. Okay, bye.
(01:20:59):
Thank you for listening [01:21:00] to Financial Feminist a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Researched by Sarah Sciortino, audio and video Engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Laffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First $100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bahkmetyeva , Taylor Chou , Sasha Bonar , Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Kurronen , Daryl Ann Ingman and Meghan Walker. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, [01:21:30] and theme music by Jonah Cohen. Sound a huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminis, our guests and episode show notes. Visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you’re confused about your personal finances and you’re wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com/quiz for a free personalized money plan.
