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If you’ve ever felt like your ambition made people uncomfortable—or worse, made you question your worth—
this episode is for you.
In this episode I sat down with journalist and content creator Danielle Robay, to talk about what it means to own your ambition in a world that constantly tries to shrink you. Dubbed The Queen of Questions, she has interviewed everyone from Taylor Swift to Michael B. Jordan, and today she’s talking with us about everything from asking better questions to navigating the spiritual cost of going after big dreams.
Key takeaways:
Ambition isn’t the problem—our sense of worth is.
Danielle opens up about a pivotal realization: “Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve.” For ambitious women, the issue isn’t always self-esteem—it’s believing we deserve the opportunities, money, and relationships we’re chasing. Working on your worth, she says, is a lifelong project that influences how you negotiate, date, and advocate for yourself.
Curiosity is a muscle—and a gateway to connection.
Danielle shares how curiosity led her to one of the most formative experiences of her life: having breakfast with Larry King, which helped her hone her interviewing skills. She believes that asking good questions is a practice and encourages people to start small—like asking your barista something thoughtful. Curiosity can be a path to deeper relationships and unexpected opportunities.
The cost of ambition isn’t just financial—it’s emotional and relational.
Danielle reflects on how chasing her career affected her personal life: missed friendships, delayed relationships, and the spiritual toll of constantly striving. She emphasizes that while ambition is powerful, it often involves sacrifices you don’t realize you’re making until later.
The media diet you consume shapes your beliefs about success.
Danielle and Tori explore how media—especially Instagram and reality TV—feeds harmful messages about wealth, success, and self-worth. Danielle recounts how unfollowing accounts that focused on appearance and following thought leaders instead changed how she viewed herself and her goals.
Reframing ambition as service helps combat self-doubt.
Rather than seeing self-promotion as selfish, Danielle suggests reframing it as sharing something valuable. When you view your voice and work as a gift to others, it becomes easier to show up unapologetically—even when imposter syndrome creeps in.
Gendered double standards still shape how ambition is perceived.
Tori and Danielle unpack how male ambition is celebrated while women are judged for pursuing power or money. They also talk about how there are countless TV shows celebrating men making money (think Pawn Stars, Deadliest Catch), but very few that do the same for women—unless it’s glamorized or competitive.
Notable quotes
“Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve.”
“I have a Google Doc titled Ways I’ve Been Fucked… so the next time I go into a contract, I don’t forget how I got screwed last time.”
“Men are allowed to pursue wealth. They have full TV shows about making money. They’re celebrated for being good negotiators. For women, it’s either don’t talk about it, or there’s no reflection in media in the same way.”
Episode-at-a-glance
≫ 04:12 The Art of Asking Questions
≫ 05:44 Personal Growth and Overcoming Challenges
≫ 10:07 Building Confidence and Self-Worth
≫ 13:22 The Cost of Ambition
≫ 34:16 Media Influence on Wealth Perception
≫ 38:52 Biohacking and Ultra Wealth
≫ 42:16 Talking About Money
≫ 44:31 Success and Personal Growth
≫ 51:02 Authenticity in Interviews
Danielle’s Links:
Website: www.daniellerobay.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniellerobay/
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Meet Danielle
Danielle Robay is a TV host, journalist, and content creator known for her open-hearted and compelling interview style. Dubbed The Queen of Questions, she recently added founder to her resume with the best-selling card game, “Question Everything.”
Recognized by Forbes as a “game changer,” Danielle is best known as the host of QUESTION EVERYTHING, Hello Sunshine’s The Bright Side, and E!’s While You Were Streaming.
Like her mentor Larry King, she has interviewed Hollywood’s biggest names, Fortune 500 CEOs, politicians, entrepreneurs, and thought leaders. Her goal? To help us live better through each other’s stories. *If you catch her in real life, ask her what book is currently on her nightstand.
Transcript:
Tori Dunlap:
I know you’re ambitious because you listened to this show, so let’s talk about actionable strategies to unapologetically own and grow that ambition, in a society that wants to keep you playing small. Today, we’re bringing back one of my good friends and one of our most popular guests, Danielle Robay.
Danielle Robay:
Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve.
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle is a journalist and content creator known for her open-hearted interviews, and in fact, I don’t know anybody who conducts a better interview than Robay.
Danielle Robay:
I think living a life of curiosity in general opens up your life.
Tori Dunlap:
Dubbed the Queen of Questions, she created the best-selling card game and podcast Question Everything as well as Hello Sunshine’s the Bright Side Podcast. She has interviewed everyone, from Taylor Swift to Michael B. Jordan, and everyone in between.
Danielle Robay:
Now, I more so can go into a high-pressure situation and think of something on my feet, but I couldn’t do that four years ago.
Tori Dunlap:
This episode is a must-listen if you feel like your ambition is looked down upon by your friends, by your family, by your peers. Basically, if you’re a woman living in a man’s world, which we all are, you’re going to want to listen to this.
Danielle Robay:
It’s going to sound really corny, but I would say like 90% of accomplishing anything is believing that you can.
Tori Dunlap:
We talk about owning your ambition, asking better questions, the impact of the media on women’s mental and physical health, authenticity, and so much more.
Danielle Robay:
I remember thinking, this is not what I want to be thinking about all day. I don’t want to be thinking about if I look good in a bikini or not.
Tori Dunlap:
We also have the most hysterical moment that has ever happened on Financial Feminist. I don’t want to spoil it for you. It’s at the end of the interview, but it had the entire room in tears. Danielle and I could not continue the interview. The producer and editor in the room was just dying laughing. It is one that you’re going to want to hear. You’re going to also want to share this episode with a friend who really needs that pep talk, so let’s get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. Hi, Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Hi, Tori.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m so excited to see you.
Danielle Robay:
My sister.
Tori Dunlap:
We’ve had you on the show before, but it’s been a while.
Danielle Robay:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
What’s going on in your life. What do you do? Why is it important?
Danielle Robay:
I love that you cut to the chase. I really love that about you. Well, last time I was on, I think I was in a very different place in my life. I was just starting my podcast, and you were already really established in podcasting, and so now, everything is really different. I rebranded my podcast from Pretty Smart to Question Everything. The card game that I had launched did really well, and so we’re doing several iterations of it. We’re coming out this year with a dating pack, a girl’s night in pack.
Tori Dunlap:
Fun.
Danielle Robay:
I’m doing a collab card game with Gloria Steinem, which is pretty amazing, and Keely Cat-Wells of Making Space.
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
It’s the peak of my life, but the card games are really doing well.
Tori Dunlap:
Did that come from you sitting on her couch?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it was part of it. Keely, who is amazing, everybody should check her out. She’s the CEO and founder of Making Space, and I think she’s the, if not, one of the most prominent disability rights activists in the country.
Tori Dunlap:
Cool.
Danielle Robay:
She’s really taught me a lot, because I actually didn’t know a lot about the disabled community, and she is Gloria Steinem’s mentee. We were on her couch in her living room having conversation about the state of the world, and I whipped the card game out at the end. I have to say it was the most fun part of the whole evening because we got to ask Gloria about her love life. It was sleepover vibes, it changed everything. Keely and I were talking after and we were like, “That was so fun. Let’s ask Gloria if she wants to do something.” I haven’t told anybody, but yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
No, that’s so exciting. Okay, so the first time we had you on the show, it was a great title, we’ll link it, of how to be the most important person in the room or most interesting person in the room. I think one of the things you’re already talking about and is become your brand is the importance of asking really good questions. I think especially in a world and in an environment where we’re just moving from thing to thing, it feels very lonely and it’s difficult to actually form relationships with people. How can questions get us to the vulnerable, beautiful friendships and relationships we want to be in?
Danielle Robay:
I love this question so much. Thank you for asking it. First of all, I think living a life of curiosity in general opens up your life. On the back of the card game, I have this quote that I live by, that charmed are the curious for they shall have adventure, and adventure can mean anything you want in life. But I think the little bits of randomness that create that synchronicity in your life or those beautiful opportunities where you meet somebody who you spend the rest of your life with at a bar or out of the blue or through a friend of a friend. That happened to you, right? Or, you meet someone in the park and it ends up turning into a book deal.
Those moments usually happen, if you trace it all back, because of curiosity. I do think curiosity is a skill. It’s more of a muscle than it is even a mindset. The more curious you are, the more curious you become, and it pervades your entire life, which is amazing. But in terms of questions, if I can go back a little and give you context, I was really depressed in 2018, ’17. I was unemployed and just not a happy camper. I had breakfast one day, an LA miracle happened, I had breakfast with Larry King. He ended up really teaching me how to ask better questions.
Tori Dunlap:
How did you get that? You sat down next to him? Was that through the media world? How did that happen?
Danielle Robay:
I’ll tell you the exact story, but I think it was a seed of curiosity, to be honest, because I was working at a place that I thought was my dream job. I would go into the bathroom and cry every day at lunch and I hated it. That’s hard for two reasons. One, you’re reckoning with the fact that everything you ever sacrificed for and wanted is not actually something you want, so what do you really want?
Tori Dunlap:
What is your identity if you don’t want this?
Danielle Robay:
Right, and I’m an ambitious girl, so my identity was really wrapped up in that. Then, secondly, you’re thinking, I’m miserable working 16 hours a day, I don’t even have the bandwidth to think about what I want. It’s really tough. I actually ended up calling in sick for a week because I was like, “I’m so tired, I can’t even think about what I want.” Anyways, I was dating somebody and he was like, “Wow, you’re really not well.” I was like, “Well, I had quit my job.” I decided I was going to use that time to take myself to grad school. I started watching hours of Larry King, of Robin Roberts, of Bob Costas, of Barbara Walters, all the people that I thought were the best journalists in the world, and taking notes.
How did they move their hands? How did they transition from question to question? Then, I would write down a list of 1,001 questions, because I was like, everybody thinks that they want to meet Michael Jackson, at the time, or Oprah, or Michael Jordan, but if you meet them, what are you actually going to say?
Tori Dunlap:
I think it is terrifying, when you’re trying to meet somebody that you’ve respected and loved your whole life. It’s like, what do you say knowing you might only have five seconds?
Danielle Robay:
Absolutely. I think you’re getting to the heart of something that I’ve learned about asking questions, which is the more practiced you are, the easier it becomes. Now, I more so can go into a high pressure situation and think of something on my feet, but I couldn’t do that four years ago. I was writing this list and there’s no shame in that. There’s even moments, of course, now where I still don’t know what to say, that’s human, but I think writing this list was part of that practice for me. The guy I was dating was like, “I have a surprise for you. Meet me at Nate and Al’s at 7:00 AM.” Which is a deli in Beverly Hills.
Tori Dunlap:
At 7:00 in the morning?
Danielle Robay:
At 7:00 in the morning, and he goes, “I know you, so be here and makeup ready.” I wake up at 5:00 AM.
Tori Dunlap:
What a smart man to do that.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know how smart he was, ultimately, but we’re grateful for this moment that he gave us.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure, smart moment. Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. No, he was smart. Yeah, ultimately, I have breakfast with Larry King, and I didn’t get one question in, even though I had a bunch of questions because he was so insatiably curious. Still to this day, the most curious person I’d ever met, almost in a way that I’m not. He wants the nuance and the details and the minutiae. Like, “Why do you like blueberries?” It’s like, “I don’t know. I don’t really care.” But he cared. At the end of breakfast, I said, “Larry, I didn’t get to ask you any questions. Can I come back?” He was like, “Don’t you have a job kid?” I was like, “Actually, no.” He said, “You’re welcome anytime.” I would have breakfast with Larry and his childhood friends, and one, it was like-
Tori Dunlap:
I didn’t know this about you. This is insane.
Danielle Robay:
Really? It was one of the biggest gifts of my life because he really taught me how to ask questions properly. He would always say, “You need your own show.” I was like, “They’re not really handing out shows like they did back in the day, Larry.” But ultimately, Question Everything, which is my podcast, that voice was in the back of my head. In 2021 when I started, it was like, you need your own show. Okay, how do I do this in 2021? But to get to your original question, which was so beautiful, how do we ask better questions is we start asking bad ones like it is just practice. There’s this woman, Celeste Headlee, who’s a beautiful interviewer and conversationalist.
I got to interview her and she gave me a great piece of advice that I think is worth sharing. She said, “If it feels intimidating, start with waiters or baristas, because they are paid to interact with you.”
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
It’s like low stress and you can just start asking them questions, and it’s truly a practice.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s one of the things that I can point to that is probably the easiest thing I’ve ever done to change my life. It is just when I’m in any sort of interaction, I hope I did it with our lovely producer sitting here today.
Danielle Robay:
You did.
Tori Dunlap:
But I always ask, how’s your day going? It’s not a good question, but the amount of, especially people getting your coffee people at a restaurant, people who are showing you to your table, the amount of people unfortunately that have looked at me like, oh, my day’s okay, and they’re shocked.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
They’re like, thanks for asking. It’s just like, one, I’ve had this micro moment of connection with somebody I will probably never see again. Two, it’s like I am practicing that engagement so that if I am in a room with someone who I am like, “Oh, my God, I want to make this moment count.” To your point, it feels more like a muscle. It’s also just a nice thing to do to somebody. That makes my day better, hopefully that makes their day better.
Danielle Robay:
Well, I think people get, they feel so much pressure to be interesting in a meeting or at dinner. Really, the most interesting thing is to be interested. It’s much easier to just ask a great question or even a mediocre question, just ask. But I’m curious what, you said that changed your life, what prompted you thinking about asking questions? Because a lot of people never think about it.
Tori Dunlap:
I think it was, one, I’m just that person. I would have these impulses, especially around compliments. If you talk to my partner, he makes fun of me about it, but if I walk into a room full of strangers, most likely, and it’s not even contrived, I’m not trying, but if I see, I don’t know, a woman looks beautiful. This happened on my flight here. There was this woman, she was probably about 55 years old, aging beautifully, just had all the wrinkles and was just so beautiful. I was on the train to get to my gate, and I took out my AirPods. Again, I had this moment where my brain went, “Don’t do that to her.” It’s like, “You don’t know her. That’s weird. She’s going to look at you weird. Everybody around you might hear.”
I just did it anyway. I was just like, “Hey, I’m sorry. I think you’re just so beautiful.” I purposely, I almost said pretty, or I almost lessened it because I was afraid that she was going to think I was insane or hitting on her or something. She’s there with her husband and she was just like, “Oh, that’s so nice.” I was like, “No problem.” Put my AirPods back in so she knows I’m not threatening, but I have to still force myself to do it. But it’s hopefully a moment that feels really good, and that practice in a non-stressful situation helps me show up in the stressful situations better. But also, helps me pursue all of the things I want to pursue when I have to go out and pitch myself and I have to be vulnerable.
Danielle Robay:
Well, I also think that you’re so full, you’re full of yourself in the most beautiful way that you have so much to share.
Tori Dunlap:
Everybody listening, I can hear them going, okay, but that sounds great, but how do I actually get started doing that when all of the voices in my head tell me, oh, that question’s not going to be good enough, or that person doesn’t want to talk to you. How do I do that?”
Danielle Robay:
Okay, two things. One, you mentioned vulnerability.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Have you ever listened to the Gottman’s, John Gottman’s work?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Okay, so they’re two therapists who are married. They’re brilliant, and they talk about bids for connection all the time. For instance, if somebody says, if your partner says, “Oh, look at this bird out the window.” Whether you’re interested or not, you’re supposed to accept that bid and look, even if you’re in your phone or wanting to do something else, because if you deny the bid they feel hurt. It’s a vulnerability. Questions are the same thing. People don’t notice it, but it is a bid for connection. It is an invitation, and that’s why it feels vulnerable because somebody can turn down your invitation.
I think the first thing is recognizing it, that it’s actually something that is a vulnerability, and so it takes courage. I think recognizing that is really important. But secondly, pointing out something you notice is actually, if you don’t want to ask a question and you don’t know how to engage in conversation, a compliment is actually a really great way to strike up conversation and just say, “I love those shoes.” If you want to take it one step further, I think shoes are really fun. A fun way to strike up conversation. You can say, because you’re wearing Air Jordans, right? It’s like, are you a Nike girl or do you only wear Jordans?
If someone’s wearing New Balance, it’s like, are you a runner? Asking a question based on something you notice can strike up a whole, and they could say, no, I’m not a runner.
Tori Dunlap:
Knowing you too, you do this all the time.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
You probably don’t even do it intentionally anymore because it’s just so natural. But even you saying that didn’t feel contrived, because I was like, “I’ve seen Danielle do that shit.”
Danielle Robay:
You have?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. I don’t even recognize it. But even what you’re wearing today is telling me a story. I think what people are wearing is a form of communication. They’re trying to tell you something about themselves. With your suit right now, you’re telling me you’re a reverent, you’re funny, you’re comical, and you’re also stylish.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you, Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Is there anything else you wanted to communicate?
Tori Dunlap:
Well, it’s by an incredible company called Wild Fang that I wear almost exclusively, and they do non-binary clothing or non-gendered clothing.
Danielle Robay:
You’re value driven.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve been wearing them for years. Yeah, and I love the question too about the shoes because I think the natural thing for women is it’s like, “Oh, I love those shoes. Where’d you get them?”
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like, “I got these at the Nike store.” That’s an interesting answer to that question, But I love the, again, what does this say about you?
Danielle Robay:
Yes, absolutely. If you don’t want to do shoes, you can say, I love your glasses. Did you get them here? Were they from your travels? You could just improv.
Tori Dunlap:
Or like, how old were you when you started wearing glasses?
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, because I have stories to tell because I was seven and I was getting glasses every six months, because I couldn’t see.
Danielle Robay:
Oh my God.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so I’ve been wearing glasses forever. No, I love this.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it’s just an easy way. Because I do think sometimes it’s hard. You don’t want to come out with a deep question. It’s weird.
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Danielle Robay:
Right?
Tori Dunlap:
Very off-putting.
Danielle Robay:
You’re on the train, you don’t want to say, “You’re so beautiful. Why did you decide to not do Botox? Why did you decide to age naturally?”
Tori Dunlap:
That happened.
Danielle Robay:
Which is the question in your mind.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it went through my mind. At first I was like, I was going to compliment her wrinkles, but then the amount of time somebody’s complimented me or think it’s a compliment, and then I’m going, “Wait, I have wrinkles? Wait, it’s visible to people.” So I just went with, you’re so beautiful.
Danielle Robay:
I think the appearance compliments sometimes, yours was generic enough that it was nice, but I think specificity is tough because it makes women actually think about their appearance more. There’s research behind that, so clothing is a really good way.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and I think there’s been a huge focus, especially for young girls, about complimenting their energy or not saying, “Oh, you look so pretty in a little dress. You look so confident. Or, you seem so strong. Or, I love that you have opinions.”
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, you’re radiating good energy.
Tori Dunlap:
Right.
Danielle Robay:
I will say, if you meet somebody in a business setting or at a dinner party, one thing that I like, if I feel like at a loss, because you really don’t know anything about anybody, is someone will… Introduce yourself to me.
Tori Dunlap:
Hi, I am Tori.
Danielle Robay:
Tori, it’s so nice to meet you. I really, really like your name. Is there a story behind it?
Tori Dunlap:
And there is.
Danielle Robay:
Of course there is always a story. Why’d your parents name you, Tori?
Tori Dunlap:
I actually named myself, Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
No, you didn’t.
Tori Dunlap:
No, I literally did. You ready for this story?
Danielle Robay:
This is so you.
Tori Dunlap:
This is politely fuck off, Danielle. When we come back, yup, I’m sharing the story of how I named myself, and Danielle did rightly call out that that’s the most me story ever. But we’re also talking about a tip Danielle uses to help her get what she wants out of life, the cost of her ambition, not just financially, but also on her personal life and more. See you soon. Now, okay, so my parents had two names for me. This is a podcast exclusive.
Danielle Robay:
Of course you named yourself.
Tori Dunlap:
Podcast exclusive. My parents had two names for me. It was Victoria, Tori, and it was Cassandra, Cassie, the two names. My mom had a very arduous labor multi-day, so sorry, mom. They got to the end and they couldn’t leave the hospital without the birth certificate. Apparently, my dad is sitting there rocking me and they’re trying to figure out a name. He looks at me and he’s like, Victoria, Tori. Apparently I just look out at him, big white eyes, and he goes, Cassandra, Cassie, and I throw up all over him. Apparently, he just goes up and looks at my mom and he’s like, “Well, she named herself.”
Danielle Robay:
She really did.
Tori Dunlap:
So, I named myself.
Danielle Robay:
This set the stage for your entire life.
Tori Dunlap:
There you go.
Danielle Robay:
Also, this is a fabulous story. If I were to meet you-
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, I think about it all the time. If my name was Cassie, what is she doing? What’s she up to?
Danielle Robay:
No, you are Victoria.
Tori Dunlap:
I know. But even that, right? It’s like I’m not a Victoria, I’m a Tori.
Danielle Robay:
You are.
Tori Dunlap:
There you go. Great question.
Danielle Robay:
But see, and usually, people have funny, sometimes they have like, oh, my grandmother was, and you start really like that’s when you connect deeply. That’s a good one for dinner parties.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. Okay, so I want to take us to something that’s related. Neither of us feel like ambition is a dirty word, but I think there are so many women who are afraid of taking up space, whether it’s connecting with people and going, again, “They don’t want to talk to me, I’m a waste of their time.” Or, if it’s feeling like somebody around them is going to judge them for going for that business, for starting that thing, for wanting money, how do they get over that?
Danielle Robay:
Well, I’d like to say, first of all, I have been there. Actually, a few years ago, two years ago, a friend of mine called me and we were talking about dating, and he said to me, I’ve always felt like a confident person. I always walk into a room feeling confident. I want the best for other people. I never thought I had an issue. He said to me, “Danielle, you deserve good things.” I felt emotional when he said it. Then, he said, “Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve, and you deserve good things.”
Tori Dunlap:
I’m sorry, one more time.
Danielle Robay:
Confidence is what you think of yourself, but worth is what you think you deserve. I had tears streaming down my face. He hit me, because I realized I didn’t have a confidence problem. I thought highly of myself. I had a worth issue. I had a worth in what I was willing to negotiate at work. I had a worth issue in relationship. For that year, I made my word of the year, which I do every year, worth, and I worked on it. I do think your question starts with working on your worth. That is different for everybody based on their own childhood trauma, and what works for them.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
But I have reframed things, and Adam Grant talks about this a lot. You can either put things out into the world and think, “Oh, I’m nervous what they’re going to say, or if there’s weird feedback.” Or, you can put things out, and think of it as self-promotion, or you can put things out into the world and really have a message and have something to share and feel as if you are making somebody’s life better. If you frame it that way, you’re actually doing a service. I feel like I’m an evangelist for curiosity. I am trying to spread the word far and wide because it has made my life so much better. I’m not going on podcasts talking to you about questions because I want my face on camera.
I’m really doing it because I’m like I’ve tapped into something and I want you to have it. I think if you come at it from a service perspective, it changes the game. George Clooney talks about how when he was going on auditions, he would always think, “Oh, why would they ever choose me?” He had this mindset, “There’s a million people that look like me in this room.”
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, fuck off, George Clooney. They don’t, but okay. George Clooney, have you looked in a mirror in the past 50 years?
Danielle Robay:
Also like swaggy daddy, just the most… Anyways, he talks about how he reframed it and thought, “I’m a person who is competent, who shows up on time. I’m actually doing them a service by being really good at my job and showing up.” He was like, “That’s when I started booking jobs.” I do think that reframe is really, really important. Have you ever had trouble with your ambition or you’ve always… Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
No.
Danielle Robay:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m going to write a book about it, but we’ll talk about that later.
Danielle Robay:
I’d love that.
Tori Dunlap:
I think it is exactly what you were talking about, is I do think you either struggle with one, the other, or maybe both. When you’re thinking of your own opportunities and how you show up, there is something to be said about, I believe this for myself, but does everybody else believe it? You will walk into rooms where other people don’t believe it. You will be in relationships where other people don’t believe it. What I have realized is it’s not, confidence and self-worth and building that muscle is not avoiding those situations, because unfortunately sometimes you can’t. It shocks a lot of people to learn that I dated bad, I was in bad situations.
Not horrible, but not great situations, and I stayed, and 30-year-old me would not stay, but 20-year-old me did. I think you start realizing, unfortunately, by going through it, what you will no longer accept. I think it is looking back on those experiences, not with shame or not like, why didn’t I go, or why did I let somebody speak to me like that? Or, why did I let a boss walk all over me? Why did I let him undercut me in salary? It’s more just like, okay, it’s the Maya Angelou. I know better. I do better now.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. Do you ever keep a list?
Tori Dunlap:
Of the people who have wronged me?
Danielle Robay:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
Because definitely.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t mean shit a list.
Tori Dunlap:
Is Ryan Howard putting me on the list?
Danielle Robay:
No, I have, okay, and can you bleep out if I curse?
Tori Dunlap:
If you would like.
Danielle Robay:
Just for social media, because it’s going to sound sexual and I don’t mean it to be.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, okay.
Danielle Robay:
I have a list per my dad’s recommendation.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, this is going to be really interesting where this is going, okay.
Danielle Robay:
Titled, Ways I’ve Been Fucked. Okay. It sounds weird, but he told me a long time ago, and he’s so right, that every contract that I sign, I am going to make mistakes and there are going to be ways that I got fucked. Once you get to the next contract, you are going to forget some of the ways that you have been F-ed over. So, it is really important to keep, I have a Google Doc.
Tori Dunlap:
I love this, Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
So that the next time I go into contract, I can look at the document and think, “Do I need to add any of these things?” Little things. Like, as a TV host, there’s something called a lower third, and it’s like where your name pops up, how do you want your name to be shown if your name can be shown? Do you want your Instagram handle? Sometimes I’ve been in, that was a contract where I forgot to negotiate that, which seems like you don’t have to, but I forgot, and they wouldn’t put my name on screen. It’s like, that’s a huge thing, but I forgot, so I keep a list.
Tori Dunlap:
Even for relationships or for-
Danielle Robay:
Oh, that’s a good idea. I should probably start that one.
Tori Dunlap:
Both sex positions and ways to get fucked. No, but it’s like, probably for that that would be so helpful. Basically, what are my non-negotiables next time? I just did this with our attorneys. We just had our team retreat and it was like, what are our non-negotiables in contracts? It’s I think probably the same thing for any job as well. Beyond just a contract, it’s like, okay, how will I be treated? If my boss does this, is that a beige flag, is that a red flag, is that break in case of emergency, we need to get out?
Danielle Robay:
Yes. Oh, I can’t wait to read your book.
Tori Dunlap:
We’ll talk. Speaking of ambition, you worked as a journalist.
Danielle Robay:
I did.
Tori Dunlap:
Now, you’re hosting things all the time, including your own show, but you’ve talked about how there was a cost to that ambition. Can you tell me more about that?
Danielle Robay:
Well, I think last time I was on the pod, we talked about the actual financial cost.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
Which was vast, and still is, because I’m still constantly paying for hair and makeup and clothing and all the things.
Tori Dunlap:
All the compound interests you lost as well, but don’t even get me started about that.
Danielle Robay:
That part makes me sad, because I think about all of the compound interests, but it really is a cost to my job. People expect you to show up a certain way, but I actually recently have been thinking about the spiritual personal cost of ambition. I asked Bozoma Saint John on my podcast about it, because she’s a highly ambitious person, and I really liked her answer. She said, “It will cost you friends, it will cost you money, but also I think it cost you… ” It costs me so far things that I didn’t know I was negotiating. I have spent so much time focused on my career that I have not focused on my personal life. I focused on my personal growth.
But at one point years ago, I didn’t have a lot of friends because I didn’t have time to have friends, and I fixed that because that was important to me. But now, I don’t have a man, that is now important to me too, to go try and find one, but it just wasn’t high on my list. I do think there’s a lot of negotiations you don’t realize you’re making when you’re younger.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Do you think there’s seasons of your life?
Danielle Robay:
I do.
Tori Dunlap:
Because I think that too, and I’m really glad that there were many years where dating was not my highest priority.
Danielle Robay:
Do you really feel that way in hindsight?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
Do you think that’s because you’re partnered?
Tori Dunlap:
No, I’d be giving you the same, truly, I’d be giving you the same answer if I wasn’t.
Danielle Robay:
I think once I’m partnered, I’m going to have to see how I feel.
Tori Dunlap:
Because I obviously love my partner. This is work. It’s work. There are so many parts about being single that are way easier.
Danielle Robay:
I agree with that.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t think the company now would be as successful as it was if I had not built it either with relationship that didn’t last, or during periods where I was either just dating or completely single.
Danielle Robay:
I’m working with a life coach who’s telling me that I have to stop thinking in binary terms, that I have to think I could be with somebody.
Tori Dunlap:
Of all people I thought Danielle Robay would live in the gray.
Danielle Robay:
I do live in the gray, but I had this thing in my mind that was like-
Tori Dunlap:
It rhymes, Robay and the gray.
Danielle Robay:
I love that you know that about me. I feel seen by you right now.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, again, the questions, it’s like, okay, curiosity I think is the perfect example of, if it’s true, curiosity, it’s not going to come with judgment.
Danielle Robay:
Right. I agree.
Tori Dunlap:
As someone who grew up in an extremely judgmental house, I still struggle with getting rid of the judgment.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. Do you think about, because sometimes judgment is my first thought, but my second thought is the one-
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, often. Yeah. But that’s the-
Danielle Robay:
That’s the therapy.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s the 18 years of Catholic school with pretty regimented parents talking first, and then it’s like, no, that wasn’t the higher self version of that thought. Let’s try that again.
Danielle Robay:
I’m really curious if you feel like there’s been a cost, because you’ve-
Tori Dunlap:
To ambition?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Also, I realized I didn’t let you finish about black and white binary, because I would love to take that where it’s going.
Danielle Robay:
Who cares? Go ahead.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re my guest, dude. What was your question for me? What was it?
Danielle Robay:
My question was-
Tori Dunlap:
If there’s a cost to ambition?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. For you.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Because I think the cost is different for everybody.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, we can go high level of the cost of being an ambitious woman. Yeah, let’s call it every other day, maybe every day if we’re being really generous, I have the constant feeling of, if I were a man this would be way easier. I think we all feel that way in any aspect of our lives, but specifically running the kind of business I do, I’m like, “Oh, if a man had done the things we’ve been able to do, the business would be even bigger than it is.
Danielle Robay:
Really?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
I never think about that.
Tori Dunlap:
I think about that too much, unfortunately. Because I just watch so many fucking inept men get everything. The amount of inept men is just insane to me. To my own heart, I think I’m better spoken than most men. I think we’re smarter, we run a better business, but it doesn’t matter.
Danielle Robay:
That’s really interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
But again, I’m a white woman. We know this is worse for women of color, for trans women. It’s just like…
Danielle Robay:
But do you think if you get stuck in that mindset, it makes you crazy, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Well, yeah, because you only can control the things you can control. I single-handedly can’t change sexism, but we’re going to fucking try.
Danielle Robay:
Well, you helped change my relationship with money.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s nice.
Danielle Robay:
Your book.
Tori Dunlap:
I appreciate that.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, and I do think that you are changing the strata.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m trying to think really the cost of ambition. Yeah. It’s also like, I don’t know a sense of… but I don’t know any other way. Does that make sense?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. No, you have to follow your heart. I’m just thinking I froze my eggs. That cost me something.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, it’s a cost. That’s a lot. We haven’t really talked about that on the show yet. We’ve been meaning to do an episode.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, really?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. How was that for you? When we come back from a word with our sponsors, Danielle is chatting more about freezing her eggs, how she sees the media influencing everything, especially how women grow wealth, and the importance of the information diet you feed yourself. Stay tuned.
Danielle Robay:
You should do an episode on it. It’s really interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
You want to come back on?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. We can talk about it, but also a doctor would be interesting with a patient, because I feel like they tell you two different things. Both have important information, but for instance, no one really tells you that only 3% of women who freeze their eggs actually go back to use their eggs, which is incredibly low.
Tori Dunlap:
What?
Danielle Robay:
Yes, and there’s no information on the success of that 3%. There’s different reasons for it.
Tori Dunlap:
Right, they decide they don’t want to have kids, they have kids naturally, they adopt.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
They may die before. That’s insane though, 3%?
Danielle Robay:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a lot of money.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it really is an insurance policy. The way that people talk about apartment, car, all of that health insurance.
Tori Dunlap:
Just get your eggs frozen. Oh, man, 3% feels low.
Danielle Robay:
I know. It’s wild. It was an interesting experience. I’m glad I did it, but man, oh man.
Tori Dunlap:
Crazy?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. Hormones are tough.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
It’s not easy on the body.
Tori Dunlap:
Hormones are tough when I’m not shooting myself up with more hormones.
Danielle Robay:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m about to start my period and I feel insane. I’m like, burn my entire life to the ground? Sounds great.
Danielle Robay:
Totally.
Tori Dunlap:
It sounds perfect.
Danielle Robay:
Sounds like a Friday.
Tori Dunlap:
Something I wanted to talk about is, with the media background you have, what are the ways you feel like media influences how women see the pursuit of wealth?
Danielle Robay:
Oh, almost in every way. Doesn’t media influence how we all see wealth?
Tori Dunlap:
See most things, I think.
Danielle Robay:
Right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I’ve always been a big believer in you are what you eat, so you think about what you consume. I remember when I unfollowed a ton of people in media as I got older because I wanted my intellectual diet to be different.
Tori Dunlap:
Can we talk about that for a second? Because I’ve been wanting to talk about that on the show.
Danielle Robay:
Please.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re talking about confidence and ambition and getting more money and pursuing the things you want unabashedly. We’re not talking about the physical diet. It’s like, what information are you feeding yourself? Who are you listening to? How much content are you getting into your brain that makes you actually feel good about yourself?
Danielle Robay:
Even as small as what images are you looking at day to day? I remember I followed so many of these, the early Instagram days, like Jessica Burciaga, these gorgeous Instagram girls. I don’t know why, but early on, we all were following them. I remember thinking, “This is not what I want to be thinking about all day. I don’t want to be thinking about if I look good in a bikini or not. I want to be thinking… ” That’s when I started following Adam Grant and following thought leaders who were really making me ask myself questions, think differently. I think a media diet is really, really undervalued. It’s so important.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely, so yeah, when we’re thinking about wealth, what are the stories that you think the media has told?
Danielle Robay:
The Girl Boss era was a tough one.
Tori Dunlap:
It really was.
Danielle Robay:
I remember the stories, and even I think about images too, that we were shown of women on magazines during that era. They were all wearing power suits. Not that I don’t love a power suit, I love a power suit.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m wearing a power suit.
Danielle Robay:
But that’s your brand.
Tori Dunlap:
It is, and I also like them because I dress very masculine. I don’t wear a lot of dresses.
Danielle Robay:
That’s what you’re comfortable in. I actually think Sheryl Sandberg’s Lean In got a lot of flack that it didn’t deserve.
Tori Dunlap:
You and I should talk about that.
Danielle Robay:
Some of it I understand.
Tori Dunlap:
Some of it was good. Some of it needed work, but-
Danielle Robay:
Fair.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
But the chapter about women’s clothing at work was so good for, I thought, and she said like, women were basically told to dress like men. You had to wear a suit. I think that imagery was harmful, but I remember Suze Orman was the first woman I saw talking about money on TV.
Tori Dunlap:
With the callers, speaking of, yeah, suits. That was actually my first question for you was, my next question, was do you remember the first time you saw money portrayed in media?
Danielle Robay:
Honestly, that I can remember, it was Suze Orman, and then it was the excess of the Kardashians. Yeah, that too.
Tori Dunlap:
What did that tell you about people with money? I’m getting really therapist on you.
Danielle Robay:
Well, I think I had multiple messages because I grew up around people who had wealth, and so I had messages I think growing up. I grew up around a mix of people, but I did see that, and so I saw that not everybody was, even if you had money, you weren’t living in excess in that way. But I do think that culturally that show and other reality shows at the time, it wasn’t just them, definitely ushered an era of excess and over consumption, which I think we’re seeing a backlash to now. Now, it’s all about quiet luxury.
Tori Dunlap:
I think we are, and at the same time, we aren’t.
Danielle Robay:
Tell me more.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, I think we’re all really voyeuristic about money. Even me who has enough now, I’m always interested in, “Oh, what are really rich people buying? Or, what do their houses look like?” Architectural Digest is porn for me. I’m just like, “Oh, show it all to me. What couch did you buy?” I do feel like we act like we hate it, but Below Deck and Million Dollar Listing, these shows exist for a reason.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. Well said. We are all voyeuristic, but I also think there’s an element of wealth, like ultra wealth that we don’t see.
Tori Dunlap:
The billionaire yacht succession wealth? Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, and also, I’ve heard about these medical experiences. This is going to be really trendy to go for a week and go to a very bougie medical center where everything is tested.
Tori Dunlap:
People are flying to Turkey to do that right now because it’s cheaper.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Plus the biohacking. It’s all the dudes who are like, “Oh, I’m going to live to 140.” I’m like, “Okay, by never eating a burger and having no pleasure in your life? No, thank you.”
Danielle Robay:
Well also, do you talk about the financial element of that? How are you going to support yourself to 140?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, I didn’t think about that. More just the cost of trying to, I don’t know, re-harvest your blood every 12 hours or whatever crazy shit they’re doing now.
Danielle Robay:
Totally.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that when I think about a lot of the messages that women are fed in the media, it is always like, if women have money, it’s so that they can go shop more.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, for sure, and it’s also very paradoxical information.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Danielle Robay:
For instance, with biohacking, I think for women it’s not called biohacking. It’s like, “Oh, you’re obsessed with aging, and not aging.” But really it’s the same thing.
Tori Dunlap:
Everything’s a double standard. It’s like, men want to live, and they’re like, “Oh, because they want to experience more of life and they want to CEO harder.” They’re like, “Yay.” Versus women, it’s like, “Why do you not want to turn… what is your obsession with looking young?” I’m like, “Well, because the entire society is built upon me looking as young as possible.”
Danielle Robay:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, it’s very paradoxical information. Also, we think about wealth in terms of Birkin bags, and that’s actually not how most women are thinking.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I would hope not. I know they’re not. The other thing that always blows my mind, have you watched Discovery Channel recently? Do you know the shows on Discovery Channel?
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know. Do I?
Tori Dunlap:
Deadliest Catch?
Danielle Robay:
Oh, yes. Seen that.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. Thank you. Oh, gosh, what else? Pawn Stars?
Danielle Robay:
Oh, I like that one.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and then the History channel, what is, oh, my dad’s favorite show. The American Pickers.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know that one.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, you don’t know the American Pickers. Okay, so these two guys, they go out and they drive to these random houses that are clearly planned before in the middle of Kansas, and it’s hoarders. All of these guys are hoarders, and they have old cars, and they have all this antique stuff and three garages on their farm. The American Pickers come through and they’re like, “Oh, there’s that oil sign from 1950. I know exactly what that is. Will you take 200 for it?” They’re like, “No, I’d never sell it.” Then, they buy stuff from them, and then they go back to the oil sign always at the end, and they’re like, “250?” The guy’s like, “Yeah, sure.”
The amount of times that I have been at the gym or I come home for Christmas or whatever and my dad’s watching these shows, and the transactional relationship, the negotiation that happens is so organic. We know exactly how much they’re getting paid, again, presumably. These other fishing shows where they’re like, “Oh, I caught this huge fish and it would cost this amount per pound, so I made $60,000 off of this catch or whatever.” It’s like, we don’t talk about that as women. We don’t celebrate it. There’s not TV shows, is there?
Danielle Robay:
No, and I just had an experience yesterday where I thought about this. I was at a lunch with two acquaintances. One of them was saying, she was talking about her job and sharing that it was paying well, and the other one said, “I’m really curious. What’s the salary?
Tori Dunlap:
I love it.
Danielle Robay:
She was like, “It’s good.” In my mind I was like, “Just share the salary.” But I get also not sharing.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, because we’re worried about judgment. This is back to the original thing of, what if I have the audacity to take up space?
Danielle Robay:
Do you think some of it’s like evil eye? It’s like, don’t want my life.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, I don’t interpret it as that at all.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know.
Tori Dunlap:
But it’s interesting. I think just we’re so scared to talk about money. We’re so scared that somebody else is going to judge us. Even I’m scared of this. The more money I make, I’m like, “Oh, if I buy them a wedding gift, are they going to go, ‘Well, she has more money than that. She should be buying me a better gift.'” That’s something I’m stressed about.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, that’s interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like, okay, if I’m at lunch with somebody and now I know that they make $300,000 a year, do I now expect them to put down their credit card and pay for me?
Danielle Robay:
Right, are they supposed to pay for… that’s very interesting. Yeah, it’s confusing. I actually see the arguments for both sides.
Tori Dunlap:
But again, men are allowed to pursue wealth. They have full TV shows about making money. They’re celebrated for being good negotiators. For women, it’s either do not talk about it or there’s no reflections in media in the same way. There’s no Pawn Stars for women.
Danielle Robay:
Why do you think that is?
Tori Dunlap:
Maybe selling sunset. But then it furthers the trope of women all hate each other and they’re like catty, and I don’t know.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, and have to look a very specific way.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. You have to be typically white and skinny and blonde. I don’t know. Well, I was like, how long do we have to do a media dissertation here? But I think men are allowed to pursue money, women aren’t.
Danielle Robay:
It’s really interesting. Yeah, I guess that’s why you get backlash on TikTok.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes, Danielle, that is why. No, because men don’t like when I take up space.
Danielle Robay:
Every day I’m looking through my phone and Tori comes up on TikTok saying like, “Dave Ramsey.”
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle got my contact. She’s like, “I got you. This is it.” Okay. You have interviewed so many successful people.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
What do successful people know that we don’t?
Danielle Robay:
Well, I would consider you successful.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s very nice, Danielle. Okay, I’m talking for the general public listening.
Danielle Robay:
Do you consider yourself successful?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, God. See what she does? She’s like, you know what? I’m a guest on your show but I’m going to flip it around on you. Yes.
Danielle Robay:
Okay. I know that’s hard to say sometimes.
Tori Dunlap:
No, but I think I do have a lot of business success. This is so cheesy, blah, blah, blah. But it’s like my tombstone should not say CEO/founder of Her First $100K, or my obituary, whatever. Hopefully it is about the women we’ve impacted, but it’s also like, she was a loving partner. She was a kind daughter. She showed up for her friends. That is what I’d rather have.
Danielle Robay:
Your eulogy versus resume virtues.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally. Am I proud of the things we’ve accomplished as a company and that I’ve accomplished personally? Absolutely. But we’ve been on the same journey, you and I, of like, how do I find success in things that have nothing to do with work? How do I find my identity in things that have nothing to do with my output?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I don’t have that answer, but I do have the successful people answer.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. But can I tell you one thing?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, tell me.
Tori Dunlap:
I may have told you this before, my mentor told me this, that I am a human being, not a human doing. Have you heard that one? It’s good.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it’s a really good one. I think that was a Tony Robbins special.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, gross. Now I feel bad. We’ll talk about that off mic too. No, that one was really helpful for me. I’m just like, you know what? Also, the first two pages of The Notebook, have you read The Notebook, the book?
Danielle Robay:
No. No. No.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, have you seen the movie?
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, I think it is in the monologue, in the movie. I bring this up, somebody needs to tally up how many times I bring this up on the show. But it’s this beautiful thing of, I didn’t invent a cure for cancer. I didn’t do anything special. I didn’t travel everywhere. I didn’t have this grand life. I think it is in the movie. He’s like, I love somebody else with my entire heart.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. It’s so beautiful.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m like, that’s enough.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, that gave me chills.
Tori Dunlap:
I know, but isn’t that lovely?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it’s really lovely.
Tori Dunlap:
That he can say, “Okay, I love this other person with everything I had.”
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
And like, “That’s enough. I can die now. That’s okay.” Anyway, what do successful people know that our listeners do not?
Danielle Robay:
It’s going to sound really corny, but my truth to that is that more than half, I would say 90% of accomplishing anything is believing that you can, and they believe they can, and you don’t have to agree with them. For instance, I’m in the podcast space, you’re in the podcast space. There are really successful podcasters, way more successful than me, whose message I don’t agree with, whose ethics I don’t agree with, but they are living their truth. It is true to them, and that I respect. I think you have to think about the person you want to become because a lot of times our personal growth mirrors our professional growth. With that, it is literally about believing that you can, like delulu is the solulu.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so is it fake it till you make it?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, I think so.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so I think that’s going around on social media right now, of is fake it till you make it real. Does it actually get you to where you want to be?
Danielle Robay:
This can be controversial because not everybody believes, and anyone who knows me knows I am a pretty real person, but I do believe in fake it till you make it. When I first moved from Chicago to LA, I wanted to be an entertainment reporter. I wanted to be on E!, even though I thought I wanted to be Barbara Walters, but on E!.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, great.
Danielle Robay:
Delulu. Okay. But I would be at the end of the red carpet with the worst outlet not getting paid. All of my peers who were at the end of the carpet with me, they were competitive with me. I never saw them as my competition. I looked at the very far end of the other carpet where Giuliana Rancic was standing at E! News, and I thought, “That is my competition.” I acted and tried to dress as if I was already on E! News. I did my research as if I was already… Maybe it was manifestation, I don’t know. But I do think you have to, and I didn’t have any of the credentials or the experience, but I did fake it. Then, eventually I made it. I don’t know the other way. If anybody could show me another way, I’m open, where you don’t have to fake it.
Tori Dunlap:
No, I think that’s a pretty good way. Well, I don’t know if it’s faking it. It’s more just like, “Okay, how did the person, or the kind of person I want to be, how did they get where I’m at?”
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
They did X, Y, Z thing. They showed up in X, Y, Z way. Again, Oprah is the pinnacle of this. But very few people in this world are a better interviewer than Oprah, and it’s because she’s so present. She’s so there with you. She also brings her own story in when it makes sense. It’s like, “Okay, I’m not Oprah.” But to your point about taking notes about what are they doing, you can start to emulate the kind of people you want to embody.
Danielle Robay:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
Until you feel, who is Danielle? Who is Tori? Because you’re not going to be Oprah. You shouldn’t try to be exactly like her because that doesn’t make sense. But I think trying to emulate the kind of people you want to be, even if it’s just future you.
Danielle Robay:
I totally agree. I also think, for me it was my 20s, but for somebody else, it could be any age. It’s just about entering a new era. As you said, you are taking these bits and pieces and trying them on for size, and determining what fits and what doesn’t. Sometimes it does feel fake because you’re like, “Oh, that’s not you. Let me take that shirt off.” You put another shirt on, and then for me, my 30s were about figuring out what shirts I wanted to keep in my closet, what I wanted to stay.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. What do you want your closet to look like.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. But I do think my mom has this line that if you wear a mask long enough, it becomes your face. You do have to be careful about what you’re trying on and for how long.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s really smart. Masking becomes your face.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s good.
Danielle Robay:
You can’t be faking it for too long.
Tori Dunlap:
Who is somebody that you’ve interviewed that you feel like is fully in their alignment?
Danielle Robay:
That’s a great question because I can pretty easily feel-
Tori Dunlap:
When they’re not?
Danielle Robay:
… when they’re not. I have an inauthenticity-
Tori Dunlap:
What shows you that they’re not? What shows you that they are? What shows you that they’re not?
Danielle Robay:
A few things. It’s hard with actors because they’re used to performing. Sometimes it’s not about inauthenticity, it’s about being able to snap them out of that mechanism. But I was interviewing an actor one time and a train went by, and so we had to stop down and we continued with the interview. Then, my producer was sitting on the side and made a move, put their head up, and the actor in the chair said, “Oh, do we need to stop down?” I didn’t see anybody move, but they were so aware, not present in the space, they were so aware of their surroundings that I was like, “Oh, they’re not really here with me.”
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and also if you’re on a set too, I imagine, you’re constantly aware to a certain point of what everybody wants from you.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, but in terms of inauthenticity, I think there’s a fine line between sharing your story and there’s moments where it’s important to toot your own horn. But I think when people lead with ego, it’s a big red flag to me that they’re not comfortable in who they are. That to me is the mask. That’s the fakeness.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, where they feel like they have to tap dance for you a little bit.
Danielle Robay:
I’ve always loved interviewing the people that surprise me. I go in with one notion and I come out-
Tori Dunlap:
Who surprised you the most?
Danielle Robay:
Simon Cowell. I know, that’s a weird answer.
Tori Dunlap:
We’ve talked about this, I think, on your first, he was so nice and genuine.
Danielle Robay:
To everybody in the room. He surprised me. I just interviewed Bozoma Saint John and she really surprised me because the woman that I had seen in the media was such a personality, and so I didn’t know who I was going to get in the interview chair.
Tori Dunlap:
Especially your set and the way you approach it is like, it’s beautiful, but it also weirdly is very stripped down too.
Danielle Robay:
It is.
Tori Dunlap:
It feels very intimate.
Danielle Robay:
It’s very bare bones. There’s candles, like a zen. She was one of my favorite interviews. She was so sincere and had really good information to share. I was like, “Oh, it’s cool that all of… ” The brain met the beauty for me. How about you? Did anyone ever surprise you?
Tori Dunlap:
That’s a good question. Yeah, I think I’m constantly testing my own internalized bias against women.
Danielle Robay:
That’s so awesome for you to admit, because every woman is.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s true. I know you were whip smart, but you surprised me in many ways because-
Danielle Robay:
Thanks, Tori.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, you’re very conventionally beautiful and I am sometimes very distrustful of women are conventionally attractive. Because I’m like, “Okay, can we have a real conversation?” I know it’s not nice, and again, this is not me fishing for compliments. I know I am not conventionally attractive, and I’ve never been. I grew up with girls who are not very nice, and so all the popular ones, the ones who were pretty and everything. I grew up with a pretty severe distrust of women. I had my girlfriends, but it was very difficult for me. Sometimes when I’m interviewing someone, they surprise me because I go into it with a bias.
I’m like, “Okay, you’re really pretty and maybe you’re blonde and you’re thin and you have a really hot partner.” Then, when it’s a moment where I actually have a great conversation with them, I’m like, “Okay, great, cool.” I’m not proud of it, but that’s often something that shocks me or surprises me. Again, I’ve worked through that over the past couple of years, but it still creeps in every now and again.
Danielle Robay:
I think that makes so much sense because I don’t actually think we ever really grow out of that six-year-old or 10-year-old girl inside of us.
Tori Dunlap:
No, absolutely not.
Danielle Robay:
We all hold those biases based on our experiences. Thanks for sharing that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I’m trying to think if there’s anybody else that has really surprised me. Oh, I just interviewed Mel Robbins.
Danielle Robay:
Tori.
Tori Dunlap:
I know.
Danielle Robay:
Do you let them?
Tori Dunlap:
Always, we always let them.
Danielle Robay:
You can’t always let them.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. But have you read it though? Because it’s let them, and then let me.
Danielle Robay:
I know. I know.
Tori Dunlap:
Everybody’s leaving out the let me part.
Danielle Robay:
I agree.
Tori Dunlap:
No, she just came on the show and you’d be so proud of me, actually, because I was really like… she’s been doing so much press for this new book and obviously it hasn’t left the number one Amazon bestseller since it came out. It’s selling like crazy, and I really wanted to have a conversation with her. It has not aired. It probably will by the time this one airs, but I really wanted to have a conversation with her that was related to that, but that she hadn’t had before. Because when you’re on a press circuit and it’s just like, you got your 10 talking points and it’s just over and over and over again. I think we had an actual really good, genuine conversation.
Danielle Robay:
Wait, I’m curious, if it’s okay to ask, what was your angle that was different?
Tori Dunlap:
Well, I threw all my questions out the window.
Danielle Robay:
Wow.
Tori Dunlap:
Because you know what? I didn’t even think about this. You’d fucking love this. I hopped on and I would be lying if I said that this wasn’t a really intentional choice to start this way. I knew she would really respect, and especially as someone who had done the book tour process, knew how exhausting it was. The moment she hopped in, I asked her, I go, “How are you? Tell me how you really are.” She started crying immediately and I was like, “We don’t have to do this on mic.” She goes, “No, we’re doing this on mic. Let’s start recording.” But I threw all my questions out the window.
Danielle Robay:
That’s so cool.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t think I maybe looked at my paper once or twice.
Danielle Robay:
I just got the chills. That’s awesome.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like, okay, if we can start there, then we can have an actual conversation that is related to what she… because I want to give her time to plug, but is not the, Let Them Theory show up in the relationships. I’m sure I asked that, a version of those questions. But I think for the first half hour or 45 minutes it was just her and I going back and forth.
Danielle Robay:
Oh my God, I can’t wait to listen to that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I was really excited for that one.
Danielle Robay:
I feel like you guys have a lot of crossover too.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, definitely.
Danielle Robay:
There’s a lot of similarities. I am excited for that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it’s going to be a fun interview.
Danielle Robay:
That’s cool. Okay. Jada Pinkett Smith surprised me.
Tori Dunlap:
I forgot you interviewed her. How open was she? I haven’t listened to that interview.
Danielle Robay:
At the beginning, not open.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, and you got very?
Danielle Robay:
Very media trained, but three-fourths of the way in-
Tori Dunlap:
Atta girl.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, she was real. But speaking of bias, the reason I wanted to interview her was because I felt like women and people had made up their mind about this person that we don’t actually know the story. We know the story through the lens of celebrity or Will’s lens. We don’t really know.
Tori Dunlap:
She has the talk show, but how much is she actually revealing about her own life? Not a ton.
Danielle Robay:
I know.
Tori Dunlap:
I have to listen to that interview.
Danielle Robay:
Monica Lewinsky has a new podcast called Reclamation.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, she does.
Danielle Robay:
I love that word. I love the idea of reclamation and culture, because we’ve treated women poorly throughout.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely. Yeah. Have you interviewed her?
Danielle Robay:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
She follows me. I’m trying to get her on the show.
Danielle Robay:
She’s really cool.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I don’t want to dive into that, but just the amount-
Danielle Robay:
Wait, that’s so interesting because I’ve always wondered the economic cost of what she went through, and nobody ever asks about that.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
How did she support herself?
Tori Dunlap:
She couldn’t get jobs, she had to change her name on resumes and stuff.
Danielle Robay:
It’s crazy.
Tori Dunlap:
It was bad. No, but to bring it home, I do think that there’s so much of what we talk about on the show of ways that you can control what you can control and show up as your best self and go out and ask good questions and do all these things. Yet, we still exist in a society that will try to cut you down to size, will try to limit your opportunities.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m not going to ask you how do you reckon with that, because that’s self-patriarchy for me, but how do you deal with that and navigate both sides of that?
Danielle Robay:
I think my instinct is non-judgment.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me more.
Danielle Robay:
I come into an interview knowing that I don’t know anything, and so I try and give everybody a blank slate.
Tori Dunlap:
Even after you’ve done all the research and you have the paper and you have everything going?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
I do. I didn’t used to because I used to think, “Oh, let me size somebody up. What makes them tick? What are they like?” Then, I just was surprised so many times and I realized that that’s not even a great way to go into an interview.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and I think at the individual level we talk about on the show all the time, there’s only so much you can control. It’s like, “Okay, well, we work to change everything else. You may as well feel some semblance of control.”
Danielle Robay:
Absolutely.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, try to show up who’s your best self, your most vulnerable self, and there will be people who burn you.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, yeah, of course.
Tori Dunlap:
There’s going to be people who did not deserve that vulnerability and you just learn from that experience and you keep moving.
Danielle Robay:
Or, you just keep being vulnerable. I don’t know.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s what I’m saying. It’s like, “Okay, all right.” I learned that the amount of times that people have been shitty to me, it’s always their own shit.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, always.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s like, okay, am I going to let them take the vulnerability away? I’m like, no.
Danielle Robay:
Don’t let them. See?
Tori Dunlap:
You got me.
Danielle Robay:
You can’t always let them. I’m going to write a new book.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, let them be shitty and then let me. Mel, I’m trying. Let them be shitty and let me decide I’m not going to date that kind of person anymore.
Danielle Robay:
For the record, I think she’s awesome. I just don’t always believe you can let them.
Tori Dunlap:
No, I get it. I get it. Have you read the book? Because there are times where she talks about letting them.
Danielle Robay:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
She talks about there are times where you decide, no, I’m actually not going to let them.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, okay. I think she’s so smart.
Tori Dunlap:
Kids kicking the back of my seat, you can decide to let them, and other times you’re like, “Stop it. We’re not doing this on an airplane for six hours.”
Danielle Robay:
Right? Yeah. No, tell me if the idea is-
Tori Dunlap:
You can’t control other people. That’s the idea.
Danielle Robay:
Don’t major in minor things.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. Oh, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Major in major things. That’s what I like about the message.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, but also just the understanding of, okay, if you’re getting frustrated when you’re in line at the grocery store, what is that actually doing? Let the line be long. You can decide, “Hey, I’m not going to stand in this line anymore, or I’m going to go to a different line.”
Danielle Robay:
Right, or I’m going to be late.
Tori Dunlap:
Right, right.
Danielle Robay:
Agree.
Tori Dunlap:
Let them. When we come back, Danielle asked me one final question and you are not ready for the answer. Join us as we wrap up this incredible conversation. Danielle, what’s next for you? What’s going on in your life?
Danielle Robay:
Okay.
Tori Dunlap:
What?
Danielle Robay:
I’m just thinking to myself.
Tori Dunlap:
What is going on?
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know what’s going on in my life.
Tori Dunlap:
This is your plug. Plug away.
Danielle Robay:
Okay, thanks. This is the part I’m not good at. I hate self-promotion.
Tori Dunlap:
Do you want me to promote for you?
Danielle Robay:
No, I’ll do it.
Tori Dunlap:
Question Everything podcast. Genuinely. You are one of the kindest, smartest people I know. Every time I get to see you, it is a great spot in my life.
Danielle Robay:
I love you so much. Same, for the record.
Tori Dunlap:
Listen to her show. If you like this show, you will like her show.
Danielle Robay:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
Anything else I didn’t get to?
Danielle Robay:
Okay, I’m going to leave everybody with one question. What is something that every woman should try once? What was the first thing that, because you have to give your what first came to mind.
Tori Dunlap:
Butt stuff. Honest to God, I don’t even know why. Some of these subconscious is just like a ghost.
Danielle Robay:
Tori, I just want you to know that last time, we cried over Donald Glover.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I know.
Danielle Robay:
This time, we’re having a different kind of meltdown. I love you so much.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re going to have to include that and I’m so sorry for everything. Oh, god. My poor Kristen, I’m so sorry. We have everyone in the studio. I’m a worm. I’m sweating. I don’t even know, it just came out.
Danielle Robay:
Honestly, I love your vulnerability. You really let them.
Tori Dunlap:
But I wish I could tell you…
Danielle Robay:
Just let them.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, butt stuff apparently is my first answer. I’m a multimillionaire, podcast, New York Times best-selling author, and that’s what I have to come up with. Fucking hell. I don’t know, Danielle. I don’t know my real answer.
Danielle Robay:
Wait, what was the second thought? Just for the record.
Tori Dunlap:
Honestly, my first thought was roller coasters because I’m going to Disneyland tomorrow.
Danielle Robay:
That’s so fun.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve been debating, how do we get out of butt stuff and go to here? Okay, but I’ve been debating, you haven’t been to Disneyland? Oh my God.
Danielle Robay:
Okay. I know.
Tori Dunlap:
The Incredicoaster, it’s like the big roller coaster. I don’t like big roller coasters, but I’ve always thought, because I’ve been at Disneyland 15 times and I fucking love it and I’m like, “Do I need to just do it so I can say I’ve done it?” I literally went to my Instagram stories. I went to my Instagram stories today and I asked people, I was like, “Make a case. Should I do it?” Literally, it’s just like 50-50. Half of the people are like, “You live once, try it. If you hate it, you never have to do it again.” The other people are like, “Why waste your time doing something you know you’re not going to like?” I was like, “It’s very true.” I don’t know why roller coasters came into my bed and then butt stuff.
Danielle Robay:
Do it for the plot. I’m really curious to see if you do it or not. What you choose.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m going to make game day a decision tomorrow.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. Yeah. You have to let the Instagram know.
Tori Dunlap:
Honestly, I probably won’t because I just get, I know I’m not going to like it. I’ve done coasters like it and I did not like it.
Danielle Robay:
My answer for that-
Tori Dunlap:
Everything about the roller coaster now is like, is this a metaphor for the butt stuff? I’ve done it before. I know I’m not going to like it. I don’t know. It’s too rocky.
Danielle Robay:
Let them is the metaphor for it.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s too up and down. What was your answer, please redeem me.
Danielle Robay:
I can’t breathe.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, God, I’m so sorry, Kristen. I’m so sorry.
Danielle Robay:
So good.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, what was your answer? It’s going to be something like so Buddhist and Zen and beautiful.
Danielle Robay:
No, my first was skinny-dipping, not so Buddhist and Zen.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, okay. That’s scandalous.
Danielle Robay:
But in the ocean. Even by yourself. Not at night because it’s not safe.
Tori Dunlap:
Nude beach. Oh, K spa. That’s my real answer. That’s my real answer. Go to a Korean spa where you’re fully naked. Have you been?
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
In LA? Because I’ve done them in LA and I’ve done them in Seattle.
Danielle Robay:
Me too.
Tori Dunlap:
I cannot recommend it enough, because there are so many women who are like, “Oh, this would be so uncomfortable.”
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, that’s a good point.
Tori Dunlap:
The first 20 minutes is terrifying. Then, you see everybody’s hype under the sun. You see women with tons of body hair, with no body hair, with a mastectomy.
Danielle Robay:
You’re right.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s incredible.
Danielle Robay:
That’s cool. I took a female biology class in college and the professor showed all the different types of vulvas on screen. It was like, whoa. That’s what a K spa is.
Tori Dunlap:
Saggy butts, firm butts, boob that’s bigger than the other. It’s so life-affirming.
Danielle Robay:
That’s so great. I love that.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s also like, where else unfortunately are women allowed to be naked and you’re not sexualized?
Danielle Robay:
Great point. My second thought was have a big, deep, overwhelming love affair.
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve done that.
Danielle Robay:
Even if it’s inappropriate, not meant to be, like not your person. Just go all in.
Tori Dunlap:
It devastated me, but I do highly recommend.
Danielle Robay:
The highs are high and the lows are low.
Tori Dunlap:
The lows were very low. No, but that’s a great one. I love that one.
Danielle Robay:
It’s fun.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, I think also traveling by yourself or doing things alone.
Danielle Robay:
That’s a good one.
Tori Dunlap:
Again, I’m going to Disneyland by myself for the third time in three years because I fucking love it.
Danielle Robay:
I’m actually so-
Tori Dunlap:
I did invite Danielle, and I’ll say this on mic, and she couldn’t go.
Danielle Robay:
I know. Well, I’ve never been to Disneyland, so I was really upset. Also, you gave me such a beautiful invitation. I always joke that I’d like to marry Tori.
Tori Dunlap:
I’d like to marry Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Because honestly, no man has ever treated me as well as Tori. Can I read the text message?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, that’s fine.
Danielle Robay:
It’s so hot.
Tori Dunlap:
Also, I think we might be at time. Hold on. How are we doing time-wise?
Speaker 3:
I think you have two hours. You have until 7:00.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, great. Danielle, you want to yap some more?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
How do we come back from butt stuff though, truly? Lordy, how do I title this episode?
Danielle Robay:
Okay, so Tori invites me to Disneyland in a voice note and I’m like, “Oh, my God, I’ve never been, I’m so excited. But I don’t know if I can yet. I have to figure out some of my schedule stuff.”
Tori Dunlap:
Are you playing the voice note?
Danielle Robay:
No. Then, Tori goes, “Also, if you end up being free on that Tuesday or the weekend, I’ll handle all the planning. I’ll even bring a Disney shirt. You can just show up in good shoes and we’ll have a great time. Ticket on me.” Red heart. I said, “Please, let’s get married.”
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle, I packed two shirts just in case you change your mind.
Danielle Robay:
Wait, who are you going with?
Tori Dunlap:
No one. Just in case you change your mind or you could go, don’t feel bad.
Danielle Robay:
I love you so much.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s not meant to feel bad. No, I packed two shirts.
Danielle Robay:
That is so nice.
Tori Dunlap:
It was also in case, I don’t know, want to change my clothes halfway through the day, or I don’t know, didn’t like the one shirt I brought, but I brought two shirts.
Danielle Robay:
That’s so thoughtful. Yeah, we could have been at Disney together.
Tori Dunlap:
We could have. It’s all right. Next time.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I’m actually really curious what your audience, what everybody listening would say to what every woman should try once.
Tori Dunlap:
Try one time? No, we’ll do it. If you’re on Spotify, comment down below. But yeah, we’ll do it when the episode comes out.
Danielle Robay:
I’m super curious.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that’d be really interesting.
Danielle Robay:
Because you have such an active audience.
Tori Dunlap:
It could also be, that’s your new deck.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
What’s the one thing that woman should try at least once.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, it’s in there. I have, for girls night, the girls night, it’s going to be really fun.
Tori Dunlap:
Butt stuff. You heard it here first. Goddamn it.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know which camera’s mine, but oh my God.
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle, thank you.
Danielle Robay:
I love you so much.
Tori Dunlap:
I love you. Thank you to Danielle, both for your friendship and also for appearing yet again on the show. You can listen to her podcast Question Everything and the Bright Side wherever you’re listening right now. I highly recommend checking out her Card Deck Question Everything. It is such a good conversation starter for dinner parties, for getting to know somebody on a date. It’s fantastic. It also makes a really great gift. As a reminder, please subscribe wherever you’re listening right now to this show. It is very expensive for us to produce, but free for you to listen. In actuality, a very, very small amount of people who listen to the show actually subscribe, and you don’t want to be like everybody else.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K Podcast. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First $100K, our guests and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you’re confused about your personal finances and you’re wondering where to start, go to herfirst100k.com/quiz for a free personalized money plan.
Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Sciortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Sasha Bonar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Meghan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
