Why don’t women feel comfortable talking about sex and money?
In one word — shame.
Tori opens up the conversation by getting straight to the point of why we as women have been programmed to be uncomfortable talking about sex. Danielle alludes to the fact that women have been conditioned to feel shame. Shame around feeling pleasure. Shame around body image. Shame around deserving happy and healthy relationships. In the same vein, we’ve been conditioned to feel similar thoughts of shame when it comes to money. “We’ve just been told to hate ourselves so much, and don’t take up too much space.”
Tori and Danielle also note that women have mostly been taught from a young age what not to do. With Tori pointing out that in school, the sex education she got was to “just don’t do it.” Which brings up a more important question of who is teaching women about sex, and what their true motivations are.
Here are some stats to think about:
- In the US 25% of teens receive abstinence-only sex education, and 9% of teens receive no sex education at all
- 71% of youth aged 15-24 sought sexuality education and information online
- Programs that promote abstinence as the only option have been found to be effective in delaying sexual initiation by about a year, but once initiated, does not reduce the frequency of sex or number of sexual partners
From a Financial Feminist perspective, and to tie this into a larger money conversation, Danielle explains, “The federal government wastes, and I’m using wastes intentionally, $110 million per year on abstinence-only until marriage programs. So just imagine if that money could be used effectively for comprehensive, pleasure-based, medically accurate, age-appropriate sex education in schools, what would that look like for young people?”
To further backup her point, Danielle points to a few more alarming statistics that prove how abstinence-only education is hurting more than helping:
- According to the CDC, one in five people in the US has an STI.
- New infections in 2018 totaled $16 billion in direct medical costs
- 50% of pregnancies in the US are unplanned
- The annual cost of unplanned pregnancies in the US increased from 4.6 billion in 2011 to 5.5 billion in 2018
Danielle poses questions about what could happen if we focused on normalizing conversations around sex, STIs, contraception, and pregnancies. As a sex educator, she feels it’s her duty to help encourage these conversations instead of making women feel shame around them. “Sex positivity is so much more effective than sex negativity.”
The pleasure principle
Speaking of sex positivity — the discussion then delves into how many images and messages are still misogynistic towards women. She shares an example of how the porn industry has typically presented videos of sexual encounters between cis men and women. Noting how even the titles of such videos are degrading to women — but not only that, when you think about who is watching these videos, it starts to make sense.
“Those messages go somewhere. The average age that a boy first sees pornography in the US is something around 11 years old…we’re starting to see these messages from such a young age and we’re not taught as young women that our pleasure matters, that masturbation can be empowering, that we don’t need somebody else in order to give us permission to explore our sensuality, our eroticism, our sexuality.”
In a world where we’re bombarded with messages of self-deprivation, reclaiming pleasure in all its forms is an act of protest. Tori and Danielle explore the idea that pleasure encompasses both sexual and non-sexual joy, from intimate moments to self-love and acceptance.
Sex inclusivity and breaking stereotypes
Ever wondered why the world of sex education leans heavily towards the heteronormative? Tori and Danielle explore this question as the discussion shifts into exploring the importance of celebrating LGBTQ+ relationships, and breaking down the stereotypes that have kept us from truly embracing our sexual power.
Danielle shares how important it’s been for her to give a platform to those individuals who hold identities that are different from her own, but that she would like people to learn more about and understand. “It’s really important to me, and it should be to other sex educators, to not start from this place of deficit, of like, what are queer people lacking, but like, where should we be celebrating them? And what are their real life experiences that are positive, negative, and everything in between.”
Danielle and Tori continue their spicy conversation around sexual exploration, acceptance and freedom in the rest of this interview, including why Danielle’s work as a sex educator has gotten her shadow-banned on social media. Don’t be shy – tune in!
Danielle’s Links:
Building a Profitable Online Sexual Health Brand Workshop
Meet Danielle
Danielle Bezalel, MPH, aka DB (she/her/hers), is the Creator, Executive Producer, and Host of the Sex Ed with DB podcast, a feminist podcast bringing you all the sex ed you never got, centering LGBTQ+ and BIPOC experts. Danielle earned a Master of Public Health with expertise in sexuality, sexual, and reproductive health from Columbia University. Danielle lives in Oakland, CA. Go to www.sexedwithdb.com to learn more about the podcast and get discounts on DB’s faves here. You can listen to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow Sex Ed with DB on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube.
Transcript:
Danielle Bezalel:
I think that a lot of women in particular feel a lot of shame around pleasure around their bodies, about them being deserving of a happy and healthy relationship with themselves and with others. I do think it’s pretty similar with money, right? We feel shame that we’re doing something wrong and we don’t know how to maximize all of our money, like how to invest in the stock market. Those are things that we are not privy to those conversations from a very young age. So I do think that, unfortunately, what unites those top topics is shame.
Tori Dunlap:
Hi, everybody. Welcome, Financial Feminists. If this is your first time, welcome to the show. We’re so excited you’re here. If you’re an oldie but a goodie, welcome back. We are talking about a not so safe for work topic today. Doesn’t mean you should turn off the podcast, but if you are listening with small children, this one probably isn’t it. Unless you do want to open up a really interesting conversation with your child about sexual education, about pleasure, about consent, in which case it actually might be really interesting, but maybe listen to it as a parent first and decide if this is what you want your child to listen to. Maybe at least it sparks a good conversation, but if you, again, are listening to podcasts for some reason on the work Sonos, now’s the time to turn it off or it’s about to get really weird.
So we are talking today with incredible podcaster, sex educator, Danielle Bezalel. Danielle, AKA DB, is the creator, executive producer, and host of the Sex Ed with DB Podcast, a feminist podcast bringing you all of the sex education you never got, centering the LGBTQ+ and BIPOC experts. Danielle earned a master’s of public health with expertise in sexuality, sexual and reproductive health from Columbia University. No big deal. Danielle lives in Oakland, California. All right.
Today, we talked about the idea of enthusiastic consent versus what we were taught, almost all of us, which was no means no, and I share a little bit of a vulnerable moment from my dating history about sparing the male ego. If you have ever done something that you haven’t wanted to do physically, sexually in order to not make men mad or to not damage their ego, I think this will be a really interesting conversation, and if you are hearing that for the first time and you’re like, “What the hell?” listen, we’ll give you some more context.
We also talk about why female pleasure is so demonized, and we’re not just talking about sexual pleasure, but how that connects to how we talk about money. We also talk about discrimination in the healthcare system towards queer people, general stigma around sex, sexuality, pleasure, sexual health, and, again, how all of this relates to our relationship with feminism, to our bodies, to each other.
This is an incredibly powerful episode. DB and I just immediately connected about all of these things and how they all intersect, and it’s one of my favorite interviews that I’ve done in recent months, so I’m really excited for you to hear it. So without further ado, let’s go ahead and get into it, but first, a word from our sponsors.
In our research, we found you’re a theater Broadway person. Is that right?
Danielle Bezalel:
I sure am, yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
So I have a degree in theater, that’s what I did.
Danielle Bezalel:
We have a lot to discuss.
Tori Dunlap:
Favorite musical and then dream role?
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, wow. Listen, the first thing that came to mind for favorite musical was Rent. Everyone who’s around our age, I am the ripe millennial age of 30. So in middle school, I was really, really just performing for myself in my living room to every Rent song. So that’s that.
Tori Dunlap:
I have the most controversial opinion of any theater kid, which is that I don’t like Rent.
Danielle Bezalel:
Well, listen-
Tori Dunlap:
I’m 29, so we’re about the same.
Danielle Bezalel:
So we’re similar.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re allowed to come at me. Don’t be polite. You’re allowed to come at me. My issue, I get it so culturally significant. I understand and respect its cultural significance. I just watched it a couple of years ago for the first time in a long time, and I found myself being the worst adult where I was like, “Oh, I’m officially an adult,” where I’m just like, “Just go pay your rent.” Don’t be Bohemian.
Danielle Bezalel:
This is unrealistic.
Tori Dunlap:
Literally, I’m like, “What are you complaining about? Just go pay your rent. Just submit your rent, get a job. It’s okay.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Listen, you’re making fair points and, again, in middle school, I had no concept of what they were struggling with. I was like, “You guys just want to jam on the street. I’m down to sing along with you.”
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Bezalel:
Your dream roll question, Angelica Schuyler perhaps. I just feel like Hamilton has had its time to shine for good reason. I feel like people have moved on also for good reason because there are new things in the pipe, but Angelica Schuyler, I just love singing her music and she’s a badass bitch is really what it comes down to.
Tori Dunlap:
I am pumped for what will inevitably happen, which is a gender bent Hamilton.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, yes.
Tori Dunlap:
I can’t wait for a woman to play Thomas Jefferson. That just seems very exciting.
Danielle Bezalel:
It sure is. I’m excited to see that too. Also on the flip, Lafayette, right? So it’s like what will she do in both of those roles.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m taking this horse by the reins, making red coats redder with blood stain.
Danielle Bezalel:
You got it.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re going to see how that’s going to work.
Danielle Bezalel:
Wait, what’s your favorite musical?
Tori Dunlap:
I can’t keep going on the rap. Oh, it is a stupid question.
Danielle Bezalel:
It’s tough.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m sad I asked you. I’m mad I’ve asked you because it’s like pick a favorite child. The one that really was sealing my fate of like, “Oh, I am …” My Rent growing up was Phantom of the Opera. It still … I love it. I got the highlights of Phantom of the Opera from my mom when I was seven or eight, and I love that show and weird and creepy and problematic, but I still love it.
Danielle Bezalel:
We accept it for what it is.
Tori Dunlap:
I saw it. Last year, I won the lottery and I was second row and I was just like, “Oh.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, wow.
Tori Dunlap:
I just still love this show. I still love it.
Danielle Bezalel:
Dreams do come true. That’s great.
Tori Dunlap:
Exactly. I’m trying to think. Book of Mormons up there. That’s one of my favorites. The favorite one I’ve ever seen though was a production of Once On This Island a couple of years ago on Broadway, and I was like-
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, I haven’t seen that one.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, my God. I had seen it done in community theater before then, and I was like, “Okay. Whatever,” but done right, I was literally, again, won the lottery, got rush tickets, front row, feet on the stage. It’s set obviously on an island, so there’s sand on stage. They bring a live goat out at one point.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, my.
Tori Dunlap:
It was just the most incredible staging I’d ever seen, and I was just like, “This is incredible. This is amazing. Nothing tops this.” So I think that was really-
Danielle Bezalel:
Very immersive.
Tori Dunlap:
Dream role would probably be a Christine Daaé, but I don’t vocally anymore have the range to be able to do that. Oh, and like an Elle from Legally Blonde because I know every word to that show too.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, I saw that simply three times when I was a kid on Broadway.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s so good.
Danielle Bezalel:
I loved it. I thought it was fantastic.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s so good. Oh, and then why can’t I remember her name? Hold on. I’ll think of it. Next to Normal, the daughter from Next to Normal.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, people have been raving about that show and I haven’t seen it.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a great show. She plays piano and I play piano, so I’m like, “Perfect.” Why can’t I remember? It’s going to bug me. I’m going to think of it halfway through the interview, but yeah, that’s one of those too.
Danielle Bezalel:
I have one more cue, which is Are You Into Little Shop of Horrors?
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t know it very well. I know Suddenly, Seymour, but I don’t know a lot more of the show than that.
Danielle Bezalel:
I also didn’t know very well and was like, “This is campy, kitschy, maybe I am just past the ability to be able to see it.” I got tickets for it. It’s off Broadway and I loved it. Then my fiance and I, we saw the movie, which is on HBO or Max or whatever the fuck, and it’s so good and really campy and just Rick Moranis in the ’80s and the music is really great.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, fun.
Danielle Bezalel:
Really fun. Highly recommend it.
Tori Dunlap:
Was the off-Broadway one with Skylar Astin? Was that when he was there?
Danielle Bezalel:
I didn’t see when he was in it, but he was indeed in it. He’s from Pitch Perfect, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes, and a show on NBC.
Danielle Bezalel:
He’s great.
Tori Dunlap:
It was Zoe’s Imperfect Extraordinary Playlist. I don’t remember. Anyway-
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, okay.
Tori Dunlap:
The daughter’s name is Natalie. I just remembered it. Anyway, welcome to the show.
Danielle Bezalel:
That’s it. Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m so happy you’re here. I just realized I’m like, “If I don’t reign us in now, the entire episode will be us talking about musical theater.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Easily.
Tori Dunlap:
So I love learning again that you have a BA in film and media alongside a master’s in public health. So how did you go from this love of the arts, this love of film to teaching sex education?
Danielle Bezalel:
It’s a really good cue. So yes, I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad. Go Bears. Was really, really into documentary style film. I loved storytelling. I loved getting to know people and who they really were and the messiness that makes us human was always very exciting to me. I always liked telling things and hearing about things through a funny lens. I’ve always been a fan of comedy. So the year after I graduated from college, I taught English in Israel for a year. My teaching cohort, we all went on a field trip one day to this very, very religious community. These were Orthodox Orthodox Jews who didn’t have access to internet and smartphones and current books and such.
So we were just walking around there and the main rabbi there was telling us his traditions, “Here’s my synagogue. Here’s information about our community,” and he offhandedly mentions that he has five daughters, and when each of them reach the age of 17 or 18, they get married off by the matchmaker and they don’t learn about sex until their wedding night when they have it for the first time.
Tori Dunlap:
Wow.
Danielle Bezalel:
Then the cherry on top, he’s like, “And we pray that they get pregnant. We pray that that is the beginning of their family.”
Tori Dunlap:
We were talking about musicals and you said matchmaker, and I just go fiddler on the roof, but this sounds like a much more traumatic version of that.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, indeed.
Tori Dunlap:
Real life version.
Danielle Bezalel:
No, you got that right. It’s a way more negative version, I would say. I, as a 21-year-old at the time, was completely horrified by these acts of complete injustice. I was the only one who immediately raised my hand to challenge this person and was like, “What about what they want? What if they’re not ready to do that? What about their consent if they didn’t want to be parents?” I rattled off a couple of questions like that and was super hot and sweaty and just ready to get my argument on.
This guy just waves me off and goes, “No, no, this is just how it goes here. Next question.” That was nine years ago now, and it was that day that I went home and I Googled how to be a sex educator and how can I get my master’s in public health in this to ensure that other people who I interact with don’t have to experience this?
Tori Dunlap:
Wow. So one of the things that I’m really excited to chat with you about is we talk about money on the show, and we actually know from statistics that it is somehow more taboo than things like death or politics or religion and also sex. Yet these are two of the most taboo things, and I think specifically taboo with women. We won’t talk about money and we won’t talk about … We might talk about like, “Oh, my God, I had sex last night,” or, “Oh, my God, I got laid last night,” but we won’t talk about anything beyond that. So what do you think money and sex have in common that make people feel so uncomfortable?
Danielle Bezalel:
The first word that comes to mind is shame. I think that a lot of women in particular feel, I’ll speak to the sex piece, a lot of shame around pleasure around their bodies, about them being deserving of a happy and healthy relationship with themselves and with others. I do think it’s pretty similar with money, right? We feel shame that we’re doing something wrong and we don’t know how to maximize all of our money and that we don’t know … I’ve done extensive research on you and you have so many resources on how to invest in the stock market, and those are things that we are not privy to those conversations from a very young age. So I do think that, unfortunately, what unites those topics is shame.
Tori Dunlap:
I would 100% agree with that. We’ve made the metaphor often hear that a lot of people say, “Well, we could just solve a lot of these issues by teaching personal finance in schools,” and I go, “Well, we’re teaching sex ed in schools, but I would argue that’s not going great.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Sure is not.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s not going well in terms of … It’s better than nothing, but also questions arise about who’s going to teach it, how is it going to be taught. I went to Catholic school. The sex ed I did get was don’t do it. There was nothing beyond that, and definitely not a conversation about pleasure. So that was the other tie that I see is a lot of times the answer to a lot of these bigger questions of how do we educate young people about sex or money, it’s just like, “Oh, well, teach them in schools,” but that’s a deeper onion to peel.
Danielle Bezalel:
Definitely. I think you hit the nail on the head with the question of who is teaching this and what are their motivations. Two actually scary stats that I have for you to start this off is only 17 US states require sex ed programming to be medically accurate. So there’s that, and that’s a current stat. That’s in 2023, actually. In addition to that, what we know is that the federal government wastes, and I’m using wastes intentionally, $110 million per year on abstinence only until marriage programs. So just imagine if that money could be used effectively for comprehensive pleasure-based, medically accurate, age appropriate sex education in schools, what would that look like for young people?
Tori Dunlap:
You actually transitioned perfectly to my next question, which is if I’m a listener, I might be thinking maybe just off the jump, how does sex or pleasure or sex ed relate to my money or relate to personal finance? Can we talk first, the show’s called Financial Feminist, can we talk first about what are the financial repercussions of no sex ed period but maybe poor sex education, and then can we talk from the feminist angle? What are the consequences from the feminist movement for not having sex ed or not having comprehensive medically accurate sex education?
Danielle Bezalel:
Even without putting a dollar amount to it, these states that are enacting abstinence only until marriage programs, they’re misleading, they’re incomplete, they’re actively harmful. Research shows that federal ab only funding doesn’t lower adolescent birth rates. In fact, the more that state policies emphasize abstinence only programs, the higher the incidence of adolescent pregnancies and birth there are. So I think even without the dollar amount, we know the research and the research shows that abstinence only does not work and is actively harmful.
When we’re talking about money and how much this is actually costing us, I have a few stats. Then I also want to reframe those stats and talk about stigma because I think the way in which that these stats are set up by organizations like the CDC, these organizations have their agendas. So I think I would be remiss not to mention what that really looks like, especially from the feminist intersectional lens.
So let’s talk about STIs and unplanned pregnancy really quickly and how much those things cost. So STIs have a significant financial impact on the US healthcare system. New infections in 2018 totaled $16 billion in direct medical costs alone. You might be wondering how common are STIs, and I’m here to tell you very common. One in five people in the US has an STI according to the CDC. So we should really be normalizing conversations around STIs, around treating them, curing them in some circumstances depending on the STI. So that’s the bucket around STIs.
Now, when we’re thinking about unplanned pregnancy, despite the fact that unintended pregnancy rates are declining, the annual cost of unintended pregnancy in the US increased from 4.6 billion in 2011 to 5.5 billion in 2018, and that economic burden is likely higher when you’re factoring in childcare, indirect costs, and other kinds of costs. A stat on that, how common are unplanned pregnancies? 50% actually of pregnancies in the US are unplanned. So once again, let’s talk about this more. Let’s chat about contraception and condoms and how people actually get pregnant. People don’t really know their own body and other people’s bodies and how they work.
The final frame that I just want to offer here is that even naming these statistics in some way is stigmatizing, even naming how much this costs because these programs, if you look at the history of them, have really been put into place for decades to essentially control the way that low income folks and BIPOC folks live their lives and really control the choices that they make and the judgments that we have on folks for the way in which that they choose to live their lives and make decisions about their bodies.
So as a sex educator, it’s my duty, it’s my job, it’s my privilege to be able to normalize these things that happen and not make people feel shame for them, which is why investing in this medically accurate science-backed, culturally responsive sex ed is super critical because it adds so much to people’s lives. Sex positivity is so much more effective than sex negativity.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and to take it one step further, if we do have unplanned pregnancies and, of course, this is the bigger political issue, if there isn’t access to birth control and then further access to abortion, that becomes a financial issue where you are asking someone typically, someone lower income, person of color to have a child to, I almost said fulfill the pregnancy, but to give birth to a child that they are not ready for, that they financially cannot handle. I think that to your point, it’s such a financial issue and also stigmatizes typically people who are lower income or who are people of color, not just in the STI and also unplanned pregnancy realm, but also all the way through to childbirth and the lack of social services and the lack of care beyond that.
Danielle Bezalel:
I’m really glad that you mentioned abortion because one out of three people who have abortions are already parents. We know this. Parents know the financial, emotional, mental burden and challenges that come with raising children. So I think it is really critical to get people all forms of reproductive healthcare that they need. There’s this false argument around, “Well, if people have access to plan B, then why don’t they need …” It’s like, “No. If people have access to plan B, they need access to plan B, they need access to abortion, they need access to contraception, they need access to every single part of what makes up comprehensive reproductive healthcare.”
Tori Dunlap:
I couldn’t agree more with that. I think that it must be talked about as healthcare, which is what we’ve been trying to do on the show and what we’re all trying to do in the political spheres as we move forward. One of the things our research kept coming back to is that women’s sexuality is often repressed more intensely and through more varied means than men’s sexuality. What are some ways that you’re seeing this play out?
Danielle Bezalel:
This is an interesting question. I think the first thing that comes to mind is the media. When we think about what empowered women and fems are like in the media, that representation is very recent and still is definitely not as common as what we see when we look at cis men in the media. When we’re specifically looking at porn and the messages that we’re getting in porn, this is just starting to change within the last 10 years. Ethical porn is definitely part of the conversation now than it ever has been before.
However, when we’re talking about PornHub and when we’re talking about super mainstream porn, if we’re seeing titles of certain videos that are extremely misogynistic and degrading to women, those messages go somewhere, and especially the fact that the average age that a boy first sees pornography in the US is 11, I believe, something around 11 years old, and for girls it’s a little later, but still something like 13 or 14 years old.
So when we’re starting to see these messages from such a young age and we’re not taught as young women that our pleasure matters, that masturbation can be empowering, that we don’t need somebody else in order to give us permission to explore our sensuality, our eroticism, our sexuality, and so the more and more that that is written about in books and shown in TV and movies and pornography, the more likely we are to be talking about it in our circles, and it’s not just that. It’s also like, “Are our parents having these kinds of conversations with us from a young age, from an age appropriate standpoint? Are we learning about age appropriate sex education in school?” It’s like this trifecta that needs to all come together.
So I do think that this is shifting, and when we get into the industry around female pleasure and what that looks like, we can get into that, but I do think it takes a while to change these very pervasive messages.
Tori Dunlap:
Let’s talk about some of the myths around female pleasure and around sex in general. What are some of the most egregious ones you’ve heard?
Danielle Bezalel:
This is a pretty common one, but that it’s a myth that there is something wrong with you as a woman if you’re not able to reach orgasm from penetrative sex. I think for a majority of my life where I have seen a sex scene in a movie, if it’s a straight couple, the man is on top of the woman getting a few pumps in, he orgasms and then he rolls right on off of her as if she also somehow orgasmed or she didn’t orgasm, and that’s also fine. There’s so many things that are wrong with that picture.
Tori Dunlap:
I the media does portray a woman’s orgasm, it is from the couple pubs and then-
Danielle Bezalel:
When Harry Met Sally.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, also that. It’s just this it happens in two seconds and that somehow she has the craziest orgasm of her life after about 30 seconds of sexual contact.
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally, and that doesn’t happen for most women. So it’s an important stat to share that around 80% of people with vulvas need or desire a clitoral stimulation in order to reach orgasm. That is something that’s not taught at all. I also think back to the STI thing. When we’re talking about myths, it is definitely a myth that you’re someone who’s so dirty or unlovable if you get an STI. As we said before, one in five people in the US have an STI. When it comes to oral herpes, 50% to 80% of Americans actually have oral herpes, and that’s just a cold sore. That is just the name of it.
Something that people get really surprised by is that the number one symptom for an STI is no symptom at all. So it’s very possible that you have had an STI and just haven’t known it. So I think really breaking down conversations around STIs and making them as normal as a common cold when we catch it and what we do about it is really important.
Tori Dunlap:
When I think about HPV too, people don’t realize men cannot get tested for HPV. So it passes remarkably quickly without you knowing it until you go into the doctor as a woman or as a person with a vulva and then get a test. So that’s one. Even previous partners of mine or men who are friends of mine that I’ve talked to, they’re like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve tested for HPV,” and I’m like, “No, that’s actually not possible. We don’t know whether you have it or not.” We know in women, we don’t know for men.
Danielle Bezalel:
The scary thing for women and people with vulva is that can cause cervical cancer. So it’s really important that we are on top of our testing, that we use protection, that we’re having conversations with our partners around this because these are really intense consequences for something that we should just be having a normal conversation about to try to prevent them.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, and vaccinations. There’s an HPV vaccination.
Danielle Bezalel:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
I know I didn’t get mine until I was early 20s. I got vaccinated for most of the other stuff, but for whatever reason, I didn’t get vaccinated growing up.
Danielle Bezalel:
Super important.
Tori Dunlap:
I would love to talk to you about something that I’m sure has come up, especially in the past couple years. In this post Me Too world or as we’re thinking more about this, the conversation around consent, I think, is just so nuanced and difficult, but also incredibly important. How has your … I don’t know, maybe your thoughts have changed about it, but how has your approach to consent and educating people about consent changed if at all in the past couple years? I imagine you’re having to talk more about it. What are the questions that people are asking you about consent?
Danielle Bezalel:
I think generally speaking, it’s very refreshing the kinds of interactions that I’ve seen on our social media accounts about consent. I think it is really because of Me Too movement that these conversations have become more commonplace. The questions and the kinds of topics that I really like teaching about are the things that I feel could potentially get sex educators maybe feeling like they’re feeling the edges around consent, but specifically around body language and gray areas of consent and what people don’t talk about around that, which is rejection and all of these little things because you can tell someone until you’re blue in the face that yes means yes. Does that actually give them the skills that they need to have an interaction, where if it doesn’t go exactly like that, are they able to navigate that?
I also like to talk about the fact that, “Hey, consent could look really different for someone who’s on a date for the first time versus a couple that’s been together for 20 years and everything in between.” When we don’t know somebody else, it is extra important for us to be very communicative. At the end of the day, yes means yes, it needs to be enthusiastic, it needs to be specific, it needs to be free will, the person, all these things that we know and have talked about.
I do think these gray areas and these nuances around those interactions are really important, especially with young people to actually role play that and practice that, and this rejection piece of like, “What do you do if you ask someone something and they just say no? How can you support their no and also not make it about yourself and ruin the evening?” There’s so much wrapped up in this conversation around consent when it comes to communication that I think is really important to get into the weeds of.
Tori Dunlap:
I want to highlight what you just said as well, which is this concept of enthusiastic consent. I don’t know if you grew up this way. I think many of my women friends did, where it was no means no of if you don’t want something, you say no. In the last 10 years, I’ve learned a lot more about no. It’s not about the no, it’s about, “Yes, I want to do this,” or, “Yes, this feels good,” or, “Yes, I want to do X, Y, or Z with you, and I’m not comfortable with these other things.” So talk to me about the shift from no means no to yes means yes.
Danielle Bezalel:
I think that at least I’m placing myself back in my middle school days, where it was so commonplace for specifically boys to feel like they had the ability to slap girls’ asses or touch them inappropriately, and those things are still happening. It’s not just because-
Tori Dunlap:
The bra strap snap.
Danielle Bezalel:
The pulling bra, the camisole, all that was definitely happening. I even remember as a middle schooler walking along my street and a car coming by and cat calling me. There are so many experiences that young women, LGBTQ folks, folks in these minorities specifically experience that now I hope that with the switch over, like what you just said, from no means no to yes means yes, we’re teaching people that, “Hey, your body is yours.” I think I didn’t necessarily feel that way when I was younger. I felt like I needed to just be a shield for what somebody else wanted rather than really investigate what would feel good and make me happy in my own body.
So I do think this goes hand-in-hand with the conversation around masturbation and pleasure and the shame that specifically young women and people with vulvas feel around getting their own pleasure. I think, again, those conversations really to me are linked. I don’t think we can talk about consent and healthy relationships without talking about feeling empowered in our bodies and in our pleasure.
Tori Dunlap:
A serious shift, but one I wanted to dive into. When I was actively dating, going on dates, one of the things that has happened to me multiple times is that I have set a boundary and I have only dated men, and what will happen is that men will push my boundary or they won’t listen, and I find that I have a choice. I can either double down and say, “No, I’m not interested in doing that,” or I can just continue. I think for some women, I’ve talked with many women and read so many articles about this, the protection of the male ego is more important than what you actually want because it’s your own safety like, “If I say no, is this man going to hurt me? Is he going to assault me?” or it’s just at the most minor version, is it going to be a whole thing, a whole discussion and a whole thing?
I remember it happened actually three times in a year. I had to literally kick men out of my apartment because I was just like, “I have said this thing. You have pushed. What part of me saying that thing did you not understand? I would like you to leave.” There was one person in particular, and I talked about this on social media when it happened, I could literally watch his eyes and his face change when he realized that maybe he was just all of the other men in this moment of like, “Oh,” and I think he was a sweet person. He texted me after, profusely apologized, but just this moment where I literally saw on his face the realization of, “Oh, she’s making me leave because I pushed her too far.”
So I would just love for us to talk about … I just want women to feel comfortable setting their boundary even at the expense of a man’s comfortability or a man’s ego because we’ve been told all of our lives that the number one priority is to never make somebody else uncomfortable even if that means sacrificing what you want, but I know on the flip side of that, the danger, the actual literal physical danger of doing that. I don’t know if I have a question, but just I want to talk about it because I think I wish more people talked about how difficult that is to either respect and honor yourself with the potential risks of that or do I do something sexually that I’m not going to want to do or that I might regret doing just because it’s, quote, unquote, “easier in the moment”.
Danielle Bezalel:
I really, really appreciate you sharing that and know for certain based on my own experience and every woman that I know that you are certainly not alone, and I’m sorry that you experienced that, and no one should have to. You’re correct in that people should be able to hear a boundary that’s set and say, “Okay. I will respect that boundary.” I think, again, going back to the media and the messaging that young boys in particular are being taught and I, again, hope this is changing and shifting, and it really depends on who you talk to, what state you’re in, what family you’re in, but we need to really teach everyone and boys in particular to listen and to pay attention and to respect other people’s boundaries and space because I think, ultimately, it stems from the power and privilege that men have physically and otherwise to be able to not listen to somebody else.
When I was dating, the same things would happen to me and so much so physically. We would be making out, and then the guy would literally just start pushing my head to his belt line and I’d be like, “Oh, hey, do you want to talk about … ” No ability to have a conversation around if I’m comfortable with that. Really, it brings up so much for people, and I’m sure that people listening have gone through similar experiences. So I really appreciate the call out. I think that if anything, you are extremely brave and you shouldn’t have to be, but I do really applaud you for saying, “Hey, no, this was a pretty simple ask and I’ve no interest in continuing on with you.”
Tori Dunlap:
I’ve also done the opposite though. I have done something sexually that I haven’t wanted to do because it was just easier. Again, I put easier in so many quotes, but it was just like, “You know what? Okay. It’s going to be a whole thing and I’m going to have to educate this man, and rather than just do that, I’m just going to do it and then I won’t see this person again.”
Danielle Bezalel:
I’ve also been there. I’ve also been there.
Tori Dunlap:
I remember doing that and being like, “I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to feel like I have to do something sexually that I’m not interested in doing just to make this fucking man comfortable.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally.
Tori Dunlap:
Like, “No, we’re not doing that.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Yeah, I get you.
Tori Dunlap:
The horrible thing is I have gotten, quote, unquote, “lucky” where all of these men, even if they did have an emotional reaction, they left my apartment without a lot of incident. So I think the other thing I wanted to mention and ask you about is I think this narrative too plays in that the media has taught us is that we as women can’t say yes. We have to be coy, and we have to be like, “No, I don’t want that,” when really we do.
Danielle Bezalel:
The cheese.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Exactly. I think men have also been told that of like, “Oh, she’ll come around,” or, “She does want it,” and even back to musicals, but Greece, that was the whole thing in Greece.
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally.
Tori Dunlap:
It was just this, “Oh, I have to act like …”
Danielle Bezalel:
“Just wear her down.”
Tori Dunlap:
Right, “Wear her down, and I as a woman have to act like I don’t want it because I have to save my dignity.” So I think that that’s part of it too is this very gender role thing of men pursue, women act like we aren’t interested until they finally wear us down.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, my gosh. I’m assuming you’ve seen the critically acclaimed film, The Devil Wears Prada.
Tori Dunlap:
Of course. Of course.
Danielle Bezalel:
I watch it pretty much every year since it came out, but I want to-
Tori Dunlap:
It comes out on cable all the time, and I sit down.
Danielle Bezalel:
All the time.
Tori Dunlap:
When I’m at my parents’ house-
Danielle Bezalel:
Listen, if it’s on TNT, we’ll watch it, okay, and we’ll watch the commercials.
Tori Dunlap:
TNT knows drama.
Danielle Bezalel:
TNT sure does know drama, but I watched it again recently, and there’s that scene where Andy played by Anne Hathaway, of course, is in Paris, and she’s drunk and about to hook up with that hot blonde journalist, whatever his name is, and she’s like-
Tori Dunlap:
Yup, who got Harry Potter for her.
Danielle Bezalel:
Yes, you got it, and she’s over and over again like, “No, I’m in a strange city, and I barely know you,” and then he kisses her and she’s like, “No, I just broke up with my boyfriend,” and then he kisses her again and she’s like, “I’ve run out of excuses,” and he goes, “Thank God,” and starts making out. That is our-
Tori Dunlap:
Even I as a good little feminist can hear that and be like, “Actually, it’s swoon worthy though.” I know that’s wrong.
Danielle Bezalel:
We’re indoctrinated. It’s tough. It’s really tough to look back on that and be like, “Ooh, that was 15 years ago.” Again, how old were we when we were watching these things and internalizing these messages that this was the relationship that we wanted to have?
Tori Dunlap:
Right, and that those were the roles you needed to play of, “I’ll just kiss her without asking.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Right, because that’s sexy.
Tori Dunlap:
Right, that’s exciting.
Danielle Bezalel:
I’ll still watch it.
Tori Dunlap:
I know. I’m going to have a whole thing. Oh, related to The Devil Wears Prada and then we’ll move on. Is the boyfriend the villain?
Danielle Bezalel:
In that movie?
Tori Dunlap:
Who’s the real villain because some people say it’s Miranda, some people say it’s the boyfriend, and some people say it’s actually Andy.
Danielle Bezalel:
Miranda’s definitely a bitch. She’s not very nice. She’s definitely one of the villains. I don’t think the boyfriend’s a villain. My friends were like, “I remember the boyfriend being such an asshole.” I was like, “Guys, he’s just being normal and she’s the one that’s missing all his parties and late and was always working. I don’t know,” and it’s also Adrian Grenier and I have a fat crush on him. So it’s hard. I’m biased. Entourage.
Tori Dunlap:
I have a lot of feelings about him because at first I was like, “Oh, he’s the good guy. He’s trying to ground her,” and then I watch it through a #GirlBoss lens and I’m like, “Oh, he doesn’t like her ambition.”
Danielle Bezalel:
He’s trying to hold her back.
Tori Dunlap:
He’s uncomfortable. He wants his very predictable, comfortable life, and she wants more than that, and he feels then insignificant, and that’s not her problem. That’s his, but whole other conversation.
Danielle Bezalel:
I think both are true. I think we could have an entire episode about The Devil Wears Prada anytime.
Tori Dunlap:
I know. I just wanted to bring a little lighthearted energy to how do we tell men no and get them to agree and accept it. Diving a little bit more into your business, you’ve talked a lot about how you’ve been consistently shadow banned online because your work is considered taboo or not family friendly. How do you work in this restrictive environment while also providing education that I think is incredibly crucial and important and, of course, shouldn’t be taboo?
Danielle Bezalel:
Thank you so much for asking because it is hard. Not going to lie to you. I think it’s really amazing that we’re able as a society to use social media as marketing and a way to reach people where otherwise they couldn’t get access to things. I would say that someone who does food blogging has a much easier time getting their business recognized than I do as a sex educator, and that is because companies like Meta and TikTok and other kinds of platforms that we use in order to get our content out there have these policies that they have put into place that blanket a bunch of content. If your content is categorized by a person or by a bot, an AI system as falling under that inappropriate content, then you can get shadow banned, meaning your profile doesn’t show up for certain followers. Your account can get dinged and flagged, suspended, and in some cases, knock on wood, I hope this never ever happens to me, but it can get deleted permanently, and that has happened to many, many people.
The hardship that I and my team experience are a fraction of what sex workers and other people in the industry experience. So I definitely want to chat about that at some point if we have time, but just to give you some examples, when advertising for our podcast, our ads get taken down all the time. We can’t advertise on Facebook sometimes, and our boosted ads get denied on Instagram and TikTok. In terms of the stigma and bias around sexual health topics that a lot of people who are making these decisions to take down this content have, it makes it extremely difficult to run a business about the subject of sex even when we have to write on our videos, “This is for educational purposes only.” If we’re talking about vulva care or bacterial vaginosis or something around the science of an orgasm, we shouldn’t have to defend this.
If you’re someone who has been scrolling on Instagram or TikTok, you’ve definitely seen thirst trap videos predominantly of women and ask yourself, “Why do those get to stay up?” and that’s because it’s the male gaze, not the female gaze. When we are objectifying women, that’s just fine, I guess, but when we want to empower women and teach them about their pleasure, nope, sorry, that gets banned. So I think it’s a really, really important conversation to have.
Tori Dunlap:
I was just about to ask, if you were talking more, let’s say, about erectile dysfunction or about strictly men’s sexual health, and when I say that, what we’ve defined men’s sexual health as, which is get as much as posts as possible, I’m assuming that content would stay up.
Danielle Bezalel:
I think that that is true. I think that there are a lot of men pedaling this information, and I do think that while some of it is really important and medically backed, some of it is not. It’s not just for men, that’s for women. There’s a lot of misinformation. This is just in all industries, but it’s particularly harmful when it comes to sexual health because this is people’s actual lives and relationships that people are giving bad advice or pseudoscience to. So you make a good point. My algorithm knows me, obviously, and doesn’t feed me those videos, but I’m sure that that men’s content easily stays up compared to women-focused content.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and speaking of erectile dysfunction, we found research on the sex toy industry specifically, and we found that the market for vibrators is 10 times larger than the market for ED meds, and it seems like you can’t go a week without seeing a Viagra or a Cialis ad. How does this attitude reflect in the work that you do and the stigma around female pleasure that you’re hoping to change?
Danielle Bezalel:
What a great cue. Simply put, vibrators are awesome. If you haven’t used one out there-
Tori Dunlap:
You haven’t partaken.
Danielle Bezalel:
…. please try one. I think they’re simply put, let alone the fact that masturbation and especially masturbation with sex toys and use of sex toys in general leads to so many positive health benefits. We’re talking about better sleep, lowering anxiety, in some cases lessening period cramps. There are so many health benefits, but the main thing I really want to hammer home here is that it feels really good and that is good enough of a reason to brag about them and to really hope that people literally and figuratively take pleasure into their own hands.
I do think that, as you just said with the research showing that sex toys is a massive industry, I think that VCs and people who are funneling money into these companies are finally waking up to that fact. So I really hope that the stigma is shifting, is changing, that we really see the benefits of championing sex toys not as something that is additional, but something that is essential to our sexual health and wellbeing.
Tori Dunlap:
I also want to highlight, even when we do talk about sex toys sometimes in a derogatory way of if you’re having sex with a partner like a sex toy is a, quote, unquote, “crutch”, and I want to just say that’s bullshit.
Danielle Bezalel:
Put that right in the trash.
Tori Dunlap:
Put it right in the trash where it belongs.
Danielle Bezalel:
The sex toy is on your team. It’s on everyone’s team. Dr. Laurie Mintz, an amazing professor and writer and goddess in the field, likes to talk about turn-taking when it comes to a straight couple having sex. As we know, two people probably, if you’re very skilled good for you, but won’t be cumming at the same exact time. So maybe she goes first and she uses the vibrator and then has an orgasm, and then maybe you do some penetration and then maybe he orgasms. I think framing it in this turn-taking way can make using a sex toy a lot more approachable because some people might be like, “Well, how am I going to fit it if we’re doing it with penetrative sex?” Hey, slow down. You don’t need to use it at the same exact time. Let’s do her first, then do him or vice versa. I just think that if we included it in our conversations around sex with couples, that they would become so much more normalized.
Tori Dunlap:
Can we also debunk the myth that sex doesn’t count unless both people orgasm?
Danielle Bezalel:
Incredibly important. Some people just won’t orgasm at all during sex, and that is completely your prerogative. I do want to mention because I just must, the orgasm gap, so it’s really important to know.
Tori Dunlap:
Please do.
Danielle Bezalel:
Great. Where we’re at currently, again, these numbers are shifting. They’re changing while we’re becoming more aware and prioritizing female pleasure, but for every 100 times that a cis couple has penetrative sex and has sex in general, the man will orgasm 95 times and the woman will orgasm 65 times. So there’s a very large orgasm gap currently. When we’re looking at queer people, I believe for gay men it’s something in the 80% something, maybe you can fact check me, and then for lesbian women specifically, it’s also higher, something in the 80s. So queer people are a little better at this, and why? Because it maybe requires more communication.
People have been having to make their own scripts. They haven’t really seen their sex represented on screen so they’re making up their own rules. So while it’s not a requirement and we shouldn’t feel pressure to reach orgasm during sex, we should really prioritize happiness, pleasure, joy, connection, whatever we want to prioritize. We need to recognize this elephant in the room, which is that women are not being prioritized in their pleasure.
Tori Dunlap:
Let’s talk about the word pleasure, both sexual and otherwise, because it’s been a theme lately of our work is I’ve just realized that I think the patriarchy’s biggest goal beyond just, of course, making sure women don’t have rights is specifically making sure women don’t have pleasure. If I think of the diet and weight loss industry, shrink yourself and make yourself as tiny as possible and make yourself as miserable as possible, and that beautifully, tasty pizza or pasta that you want to eat, well, how dare you have that bit of pleasure?
Danielle Bezalel:
Too bad.
Tori Dunlap:
I think about, obviously, with money, it’s like I want money to give myself and my community stability and joy and ease and pleasure. That’s what money as a tool can buy me. Obviously, sexual pleasure. We as women and as anybody other than a cisgender straight White man has been deprived of that and then told just deal with that.
Danielle Bezalel:
I really like the idea of expanding the definition of pleasure to whatever it means to you. I think sexual pleasure is a right, and I think it’s really important that people feel empowered to access that right. As young women, we are typically not told to do that. So I do think we need to be honest about the way in which we’re encouraged to have sexual pleasure, and at the same time, there are so many ways to access our pleasure. I think specifically when we’re talking about connection with our friends and with our family and with our partner and with our body, the idea of looking at yourself in the mirror every day and just finding pleasure and joy in the little things about you that make you happy, I encourage that practice because I think that it is just that. It is not something that comes easily for most people, but when you do it and when you’re able to really recognize the absolute power and wonder that can come in accepting and loving yourself and your body for who it is, there is immense, endless pleasure that can come from that. So I really like this idea of breaking open the word and really allowing yourself to feel the utmost joy and pleasure, even if it’s not in a sexual realm.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, and I think it is the most radical act of protest-
Danielle Bezalel:
Totally.
Tori Dunlap:
… is being comfortable with yourself and seeking out joy and pleasure and ease and all of those things because in a society that just wants you to feel miserable and depleted and deprived, what a beautiful thing to be like, “No, I’m going to have a beautiful sex life. I’m going to eat this chocolate croissant. I’m going to rest. I’m going to take a vacation. I’m going to show up as my full authentic self even if it makes people uncomfortable. This is what I’m going to do.”
Danielle Bezalel:
Especially with the food thing, dude. I feel like so … It just eat whatever the fuck you want. I just want people to-
Tori Dunlap:
… and what your body wants.
Danielle Bezalel:
I just want people to think about what exactly they want and then eat it. That to me is, again, also a radical act, especially in this fucking age of ozempic and just everything that we’re being told is just like, “No, we were right all along. We don’t want you to …” It’s just like this idea of, “I want you to disappear,” is essentially what we’re being told.
Tori Dunlap:
No, literally, “I want you to shrink. I want you to shrink to as small as possible so that you physically, emotionally, cerebrally … You take up less space. You take up less space.” It’s my other thing about high heels. If you want to wear high heels, great, but I think they were invented for that same … You can’t outrun anybody in high heels.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, my God. They talk about that in She’s The Man. Do you like that movie?
Tori Dunlap:
I haven’t seen that movie, but I do love Amanda Bynes, so I need to watch it.
Danielle Bezalel:
Oh, you haven’t seen She’s The Man?
Tori Dunlap:
No, I’ve never seen it. I know. I’m so sorry.
Danielle Bezalel:
After this, please, write it in your calendar to hit-
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, I’ll watch it. What is it? “You ugly.” I just know the quote. What is it?
Danielle Bezalel:
“You are ugly.”
Tori Dunlap:
“I see you for who you truly are. You ugly.”
Danielle Bezalel:
You got it. Yes. You’re on the internet. You’re someone who’s on the internet.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, yeah, but I think we’ve just been told to hate ourselves, hate ourselves so much and, again, don’t speak up too loud, don’t take up too much space, and that’s how the patriarchy gets us is we just deprive ourselves of it, and they don’t have to do any work.
Danielle Bezalel:
That’s why I have a little homework, I guess, for people listening. If you’re comfortable, go ahead and masturbate at some point in the next week. Really get in touch with your body, get in tune with it. Light a candle, listen to some audio porn. Figure out what feels good for you and just feel good in your … Give yourself permission to feel good in your body for 10 minutes and see how it feels.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally. I would be remiss if I didn’t highlight that even in the sexual education that’s out there, it is largely focused and prioritizes heterosexual relationships. So how are you and other educators working to be more inclusive in regards to sex ed?
Danielle Bezalel:
Predominantly when I teach on LGBTQ+ relationships, I like to start out by saying queer people have sex just like straight people do. We all have the same parts, and we’re just wanting to feel pleasure in those parts. So not to say that we’re having sex in the same exact way, but I do think that the idea here is that most people have sex, and most people really, really love to engage in pleasure with another person, and at the same time, we got to give it to the asexuals. Some people don’t. So it’s really, really important to go over that entire spectrum of what that looks and feels like.
I think for me too, it’s really important to let guests come on my podcast who hold the identities of the story that I’m trying to understand and hear more of. So a couple of most recent episodes that we’ve done on Sex Ed with DB, we’ve had intersex guests on for me to ask them, “Okay. Tell me about what’s going on with you? How is your experience different now from when you were a young person and how do you want it to differ from other young people’s intersex experience?” So really engaging with those experts, if I do not hold that identity, is critical to let the person exactly say their story how they want to.
So I think storytelling is really powerful in that way because we’re able to really get to know somebody on a deep level without artificially having to make a claim of something if we do not hold that identity. So I think ultimately at the end of the day, it’s important to show the sex positive aspects of LGBTQ+ identities, and at the same time, I like to teach on, “Okay. Why are LGBTQ+ people more at risk for STIs and why do more LGBTQ+ people have STIs than straight people? Are they more susceptible to them? No. Do they face more stigma and discrimination in the healthcare system? Yes. Did they have to teach their doctor sometimes about, if they’re a trans person, what their healthcare looks like as a trans person? Yes.”
So it’s really, really important, to me at least and it should be to other sex educators, to not start from this place of deficit of what are queer people lacking, but where should we be celebrating them and what are their real life experiences that are positive, negative, and everything in between.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally. What can we be doing as individuals to support a more robust inclusive sex education in our own communities? Also, how can we start having more conversations to break the taboo?
Danielle Bezalel:
You could be doing a lot. If what you’re doing right now is nothing, even just one thing that you do today could be a lot and could be something really important. One thing that I would really encourage you to do is just start by some light Googling to see in your town what does sex ed look like. Try to figure out on a local level. I know it could be really scary to be like, “American politics nationally, I can’t make a change in a law.” It’s like, “Okay. Let’s start small. Where do you live?” Type in whatever town that you live in and public school sex ed. Just do five minutes of internet dinging.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m literally, I opened a new tab.
Danielle Bezalel:
You’re doing it.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t even know what Seattle’s feature is. I’m just curious now.
Danielle Bezalel:
You’re doing it right now. So depending on the state that you live in, maybe what you’ll bring up on the internet is state policies or local school policies or maybe it’ll bring up a council person in your town and just start by maybe finding an email for someone and saying, “Hey, I live here and I’m curious to see what the standards are for sex education,” because starting there and trying to see if there are any local organizations like independent abortion clinics that are in your area or Planned Parenthood is a pretty well-known one. They have funding in a lot of cases, but if you’re someone who likes to start out with someone with a big name, you might have a Planned Parenthood in your town. You can ask them like, “Hey, what’s up in our town and how can I get involved? How can I volunteer?” So those are two five-minute task ways.
Then the third way that I’ll just say is opening your wallet is a really, really big way that you can help organizations. Abortion rights are under attack. LGBTQ+ people, especially trans folks, are under attack in this country every single day. Find a cause that you’re really passionate about and find, again, in your neighborhood or in your state a local organization that you can donate to monthly. These organizations really, really depend on individuals to fund in order to keep up their services, in order to do exactly what they need to do. So a monthly donation is a really, really fantastic way that you can dedicate, even if it’s $10 a month, $5 a month, whatever you’re able to give in order to sustain the services and the resources that these organizations are giving. Finally, follow my podcast and support sex educators like me in order to learn more about what you don’t know and delve into topics that you might be interested in.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. Daniel, your podcast is amazing. Where else can people find more about you and your work?
Danielle Bezalel:
So if you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear, we have over 165 sex ed episodes available on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Just search Sex Ed with DB. You can find us on Instagram, @SexEdWithDBPodcast, and on TikTok, @SexEdWithDB. Then the final thing that I just want to say is that I would love it if folks who are listening who are interested in maybe doing what I do, which is sex ed full-time or influencer work or being a sexual health expert, if you’re a therapist or a mental health worker and you’re just interested in doing your own business, I have a really, really awesome workshop called Building A Profitable Online Sexual Health Brand. If you go to my website, sexedwithdb.com/workshop, you can check it out, and I’d love for you to get in touch with me and work with me where I can teach you more about how I do this work full-time.
Tori Dunlap:
I love it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for your work.
Danielle Bezalel:
Thanks so much for having me.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much to DB for joining us for this episode, one of my favorites in a long time, so informative. You can go to sexedwithdb.com to learn more about her and her work and her podcast, and we have all of those links in the show notes as well. Thank you for being here. Thank you for engaging in these really important conversations. We appreciate you sharing the episodes as well if this was interesting to you, and we just hope you have a great week. We’ll talk to you soon. Bye, everybody.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First $100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, Associate Producer, Tamisha Grant. Marketing and Administration by Karina Patel, Kahlil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Amanda Leffew, Masha Bakhmetyeva, and Kailyn Sprinkle. Research by Ariel Johnson, audio Engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First $100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First $100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.
