If you want to land a job you actually love and make more money in 2026,
this episode is one you need to hear.
I’m joined by Claire Wasserman––bestselling author, founder of Ladies Get Paid, and one of the smartest people I know when it comes to navigating the job market, negotiating pay, and owning your worth at work. We break down how to position yourself for higher compensation, why everything is a negotiation, and how to stop sabotaging your own success with guilt, fear, or hustle culture. From negotiating raises and reframing your value to job searching smarter, building relationships, and redefining success on your own terms, this conversation will change how you think about your career.
Key takeaways:
Getting your dream job and more money starts with owning your worth, not just knowing it
Claire explains that knowing your worth internally isn’t enough. You have to own it through your choices, boundaries, and negotiations. When women begin owning their worth in one area, it often sparks bigger life changes, from career moves to relocation or renegotiating relationships. This mindset shift is foundational to earning more in 2026 because it changes how you advocate for yourself in every professional conversation.
Everything is a negotiation
Before you ever negotiate salary or a job offer, you’re already negotiating internally through fear, guilt, and self-doubt. Claire highlights how family messaging, nonprofit or startup culture, and financial trauma can silently sabotage earning potential. Addressing the emotional side of money is essential if you want to stop under-earning and confidently pursue better opportunities.
You don’t get paid based on need — you get paid based on value to the business
One of the biggest mistakes women make is asking for raises based on personal expenses or feelings instead of business impact. Claire’s “LLC of Me” framework reframes you as a business making a case for ROI. Whether you bring in revenue directly or save time, money, or resources, your compensation conversation must clearly connect your work to the company’s bottom line.
A “no” in negotiation is often a “not yet,” if you ask the right follow-up questions
Many women stop negotiating after the first rejection, taking it personally or shutting down. Claire emphasizes treating “no” as a starting point, not an ending, by asking why, what’s missing, and what needs to happen next. This approach turns stalled negotiations into clear roadmaps for raises, promotions, or better roles in the future.
Job searching in 2026 means building relationships, not just applying online
Claire encourages listeners to stop limiting themselves to posted job openings and instead identify companies they want to work for, then network strategically. From thoughtful outreach to engaging on LinkedIn and exploring fractional roles, she explains why relationship-based job searching increases options, reduces burnout, and often leads to better-paid, more aligned opportunities.
Success isn’t just more money
While financial security matters, Claire pushes back on hustle culture by helping women redefine success based on how they want to feel. Tracking time, managing energy, and pursuing alignment, not just achievement, allows you to build a career that pays well and supports your mental health, creativity, and long-term fulfillment.
Notable quotes
“Everything is a negotiation, starting with yourself.”
“If you’re waiting to get the job to feel good, you might be waiting a long time.”
“Use your job as an MBA. You are going to school, but instead of paying, you were being paid.”
Episode at-a-glance
0:00 Intro
1:15 Knowing Your Worth Changes Everything
3:30 Being Underpaid and Taking Action
6:40 Why This Work Matters for Women
9:45 Negotiating with Yourself First
13:30 Getting Data to Confirm You’re Underpaid
17:40 The LLC of Me Framework
21:00 Translating Your Value to Dollars
25:10 Mistakes Women Make in Negotiations
29:30 Beyond Your Job Description
33:15 Building Relationships at Work
37:00 Navigating a Tough Job Market
41:45 Fractional Work as an Alternative
46:00 Managing the Job Search While Working
Claire’s Links:
Website: https://www.coachmeclaire.com/
Ladies Get Paid: https://ladiesgetpaid.com/
Visit herfirst100k.com/ffpod to stay up to date and find any resources mentioned on our show!
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Meet Claire
Hi, I’m Claire! It’s my honor to be part of your journey.
I’ve helped thousands of women level up their net worth and self-worth and I’ve seen that with the right guidance and support, you can live and earn beyond your wildest dreams. I literally wrote the book on it!
I’ve taught at world-class companies like NASA and Harvard Business School, published a best-selling book with Simon & Schuster, and have appeared as a guest expert on Good Morning America and for the New York Times, among others.
I have my Master’s Certificate in Financial Psychology & Behavioral Finance and was the host of John Hancock’s inaugural podcast, Friends Who Talk About Money. I bootstrapped a 7-figure business with a 100k-member global community, produced six conferences for 1,000 attendees, and have collaborated with brands such as Nike, Secret, and Indeed.
Prior to doing this work, I was the second employee at a recruitment startup – later sold to Fiverr – and produced a short film in Bosnia that got nominated for a Student Academy Award. In short: I’m an expert in taking big swings and navigating change, plus negotiating for my worth in all areas of my life.
A few fun facts: I’m neurodivergent (I was diagnosed with bipolar type II), a proud lesbian (I married my co-founder!), and was sued by a group of men’s rights activists (and then crowdfunded $116k+ and got a book deal out of it.) I pride myself on leveraging “setbacks” for growth, or as I like to say, making money out of lemons 🍋
I’m the right kind of mix of woo-woo and real talk, i.e. I’ll kick your butt and hold your hand while I do it 😜.
Everything I give to you is based on personal experience, backed by science, and always actionable.
Everyone deserves to love what they do – and the paycheck that comes with it – and I’m here to show you
how.
Transcript:
Tori Dunlap:
Let us help you find a great job and make more money in 2026. Claire Wasserman is a bestselling author, speaker, and financial educator who’s helped thousands of women grow their net worth and self-worth. She’s taught at world-class institutions like NASA and Harvard Business School, published a book with Simon & Schuster, and appeared as an expert on Good Morning America and in The New York Times. Personally, she’s also a friend and one of the best people I know to speak about making more money and finding a job that actually feels good in your career.
This is an episode that you can come back to over and over again and one you’ll absolutely want to share with every woman in your life. We’re talking about strategies to navigate the job market, how to actually ask for more money in a way that’s going to get you a yes and more. Let’s get into it.
But first, a word from our sponsors.
So Claire, when a woman knows her worth, how does her life change?
Claire Wasserman:
I mean, everything changes when you know your worth. I think there’s also a difference between knowing and owning your worth. You can have a feeling inside that, oh, I know I have a lot to give and a lot to receive, but the outside world doesn’t see it. So to understand that there can sometimes be a process to fully knowing and owning that worth. And making different choices. I kind of liken it to pulling a thread a little bit. When you start to know and own your worth in one area of your life or in one way, all of a sudden you’re like, “Well, hold on, maybe I should maybe get a new job or get a new partner or change cities.” So it can be scary because change is scary. But then you realize, “Oh my gosh, I have so much more within my command than I may even realize and I can be intentional with these choices.”
Tori Dunlap:
It’s one of the things I talk about with money and personal finance all the time. It’s perceived as this niche issue, it’s very easy to go like, “Oh, that’s just personal finance.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but when you have money, everything about your life changes. And when you feel worthy of money, you feel worthy of belonging and love and safety and all of the other things too.” So I couldn’t agree more.
You have built a career on helping people claim their worth. And to be honest, I don’t know anybody better than you to talk to about this. But you had a moment where you realized you were not being paid what you deserved. What did you do about it?
Claire Wasserman:
Ooh, I mean, to be honest, that’s really more my co-founder’s story. She was the one who actually-
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Claire Wasserman:
… realized that the man that she replaced at her job was being paid well into the $200,000 mark more than her. And when she went in to ask, “Why is that?” They said, “Well, he had more experience and credentials than you.” Gave her this long list. And it was at that moment that somebody in her life said, “Have you heard of Ladies Get Paid?”
So she actually started coming to my events, told me her story, asked how she could get involved. And one year later, she became the CEO and I left my husband for her. But that might be another story for another podcast.
Tori Dunlap:
Became your life partner and your business partner.
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
But I think with her story, it is so incredible that she felt spurred to action. It is a common refrain though, which is like, I realized Chad was hired two years after me is making 20% more than me. And for you, more broadly, why is this work so important when it comes to not only giving women the tools they need to negotiate, but also in a world where women are just taught to be grateful for what they have?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah. It’s very easy to feel like there is literally nothing you can do. I would actually argue the opposite. There are so many things that you can do, but you should look at them like they are building blocks of worth that will change things over time. So be ready to stay agitated, but also stay patient. It’s a hard thing to do both of those at the same time.
I would say the best thing you could do is to just start talking about money, start talking about worth, your job, what you want. Educate yourself on policy, both wider policy from your state, but also from your company. And get context, before you come in guns blazing, “I deserve a raise.” I would flip it into questions. What is compensation philosophy here? Why do you decide that somebody within a pay range gets paid the top versus the bottom? And where do I fall? And most importantly, how can we figure out together a way to start moving forward?
And what you realize is everything is a negotiation, starting with yourself. How you talk to yourself is negotiation. I do want to mention, by the way, that even though I’ve never personally been massively underpaid, I have felt guilty asking for more historically, because I worked for startups and nonprofits. We were made to feel like we were “family” and this rationale that more for me inherently means less for them or less for the people we’re serving. And so that’s why I always talk about negotiation starting with oneself or with our families. Because I remember my mother and the first job I ever got, she said, “Oh, that’s so much money. Don’t ask for more, you don’t want to lose the opportunity.”
So I don’t know if it was too much or too little. I mean, I had fear. There was so much fear. And the only way to start working through fear is we got to get it out of the shadows and into the, well, podcast studio. So there you go.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s one of the things that you were kind enough to be interviewed for my book. We had a whole section of the book with your expertise. And one of the reasons I started my book with, okay, we got to talk about the emotions of money is exactly what you just said. Yeah, we can prep for negotiations or we can learn how debt works and we can put a budget together and all of those things are great. Until you start realizing that your financial trauma will sabotage you unless you have learned to unpack it.
And I think it is so easy for women or marginalized groups to start believing, “Oh, I’m just grateful I have anything. Or the job market’s really bad, so why would I negotiate more?” And all of those things are not your fault. It’s not because you’re not doing enough. It’s because society has made you feel that way.
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah. And by the way, so much of this is subconscious. There’s a woman in our community who she was hitting a ceiling for herself. So she was a self-employed person, but could not get past a certain number. And when she started to dig more into her subconscious, doing kind of nervous system work around her money, it’s about the feelings, not about the math. She realized, oh my goodness, that number was the most her father ever made, and her father as an immigrant. So there were all these cultural nuances on top of it.
And that realization was actually the only unlock she needed to move past it. I don’t mean to make it sound like you wave a magic wand and it’s done. It is ongoing work. But just know it’s not only about the numbers, it’s about how you feel about the numbers.
Tori Dunlap:
So let’s say somebody is in a scenario where they realize they’re being underpaid, what is the first step someone should take?
Claire Wasserman:
I would say the first step if you feel like you’re being underpaid is to first confirm for sure, are you being underpaid? And what does that mean? Best thing you could do is go and find competitor data. So look up your company’s competitors, try to find at least three other companies. Now, then I want you to do an inventory of yourself. So do you have multiple degrees? Did you bring clients with you? What is the work that you’ve done and the quantified impact on the business bottom line? That can get a little tricky, happy to go into more detail.
So do start with, what is the competition paying? Because that is how your company is determining how much they can get away with not paying you. It’s about poaching you from other companies, which unfortunately is why you often see people who stay at a company for a long time being chronically underpaid. Versus somebody who came last year from another company. Well, they had to incentivize that person to leave, potentially. Or if you join the company in a bad market, maybe you are being underpaid to what you could be now. Which is why stay on top of it. Don’t wait until your next job or your annual review to start doing this research. Always stay in touch with real people at real companies, and that means you have to have real conversations.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. One of the things you just said is so important that I want to double click on. When people first start in their careers, or again, they’re starting to believe the narratives about how much money they should be making. I hear women say all the time, “Well, to pay my expenses, I need to make X. So I’m going to ask for that number.” Or, “I feel like I’m being underpaid, so I’m going to go ask for more money.” And the moment somebody asks about data, they don’t have any, right? So it’s either like not having data at all or not having the correct data. You cannot ask for a raise just because you feel like you’re under-compensated and have that be a nebulous thing. And you also shouldn’t use a, “Well, I need this money to get by or this amount of money to pay my student loans. So that’s the number I’m going to ask for.”
Claire Wasserman:
It’s never about you, it’s always about the company. So I’m going to give a reframe that I wished I had come up with when I wrote my book, Ladies Get Paid, but that’s okay, we talk about it now. It’s called the LLC of Me. Okay, so maybe this will be the next book.
I want everyone out there, you work for someone else right now, let’s say. Okay, you are a full-time employee. I don’t want you to think of yourself as a full-time employee anymore. Instead, you are your own company, you are the CEO of your own life. And you know who you go and work for? Those are your clients. Those are your customers. And what you are effectively doing when you are interviewing for a job or negotiating your salary is you are making a compelling case on why investing in you, buying your services, your product is going to benefit them.
What is, as they say, the return on the investment? The ROI. That’s why everything you do does need to be translated into dollars. Which depending on what you do for a living, it can be a little harder. This is why salespeople have maybe the easiest job here. I brought in X dollars, therefore I should be compensated Y. But the point is, what does your role … How does your role fit into the financial ecosystem of the company that you work for? And if you’re not sure how you bring in the dollars, you better know how what you do impacts another team that brings in the dollars. And trust me, you’re making them money, otherwise you wouldn’t be working there anymore.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay, so you mentioned sales, and this is actually a question I get a lot, which is, yeah, it is very easy to quantify sales. But what if you work in an organization or in a job where you can’t say, “I brought in X amount of money.” How do you still communicate that value?
Claire Wasserman:
So work backwards from who the company is ultimately serving. And put yourself in the shoes of whoever is the boss. Whether it’s the CEO, Board of Advisors, Board of Directors, whatever. They have to justify decisions. Everything from who they’re hiring to why they’re increasing budget or not. So somebody’s documenting this somewhere.
Now you have to understand, how do you affect that engine? If you can’t figure it out in dollars, you might be able to figure it out in time. How have you saved time? Or on the opposite, how have you saved money? So even just being a mentor, helping to speed up the learning curve of a new employee, that is increasing productivity, that is saving time, that is making money. But do work backwards from the end goals that the company has. Which means when you’re doing this kind of work, you might realize, “Huh, do I know what the real goals and priorities are of my company?”
Please don’t wait for the negotiation to start preparing. Get those answers now. And you’re not going to look like, “Ooh, why is she digging around because clearly she’s going to ask for more money?” No, you’re asking because you want to do a great job. You want to make sure that you’re hitting your targets, that you’re thinking about the end customer, that you understand your place in the financial ecosystem, you’re here for efficiency. Work with AI to figure out how to communicate the best way to ask these questions. But again, collect information now so that you can start tracking it on your own and craft that case when it is time.
Tori Dunlap:
We’ve talked already about some of the mistakes you see. But run me through the laundry list, just give me a few of, here are the mistakes I see women make a lot and the ways that they’re sabotaging themselves in that negotiation.
Claire Wasserman:
I think the mistake I see most often, I would’ve originally said not asking. I think women do ask. I don’t think they ask again. I think if they’re told no, the answer or sort of the response for them is just to shut down and move on/take it very personally. Or be made to feel that it is personal. I think the next best step to take is to ask open-ended questions. Why is the answer no? Look at the no like a not yet. So that would be my first one.
I think the second one is not staying close to the money. So maybe your role right now is quite siloed. You feel pretty separate from the end goals of the company. You’re like, “I’m a cog in a wheel. I kind of don’t really know how I impact my work. I could be replaceable.” If you have any of those feelings, maybe it’s time to raise your hand and pitch an opportunity. Again, it has to be through the lens of how does this impact the business bottom line? And then come with maybe a smaller opportunity, assuming they may not want to say, “Oh sure, take on this big project in front of our most important client.” Fine. Come with what I call your beta opportunity. And I did this at companies I used to work for. Make the role that you want, make the wins that you are seeking because chances are they’re not going to ever give it to you. Especially if you’re already doing a really good job for them, why would they ever want to change it? So I would say those are my first two big recommendations.
And then the third is just feeling bad, just getting really bogged down in the emotions of it and not recognizing this, is at the end of the day, business for everybody.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think that is a mistake I see a lot, that first one, especially the not yet. I mean, we have previous episodes on the show of like how to script that negotiation so we won’t spend too much time on that today. But one of the things that I love asking is if they say no or if they’re not willing to come up to your market rate, say, “Okay, what do I need to do in the next three to six months to get there?” And make them write it down. Or have this verbal conversation and then go to your email and be like, “Hey, thank you for a great meeting. Here’s what we discussed today.”
So that when in three to six months you’ve gone and done all of the things, it is documented, it is there, they have agreed to it. So that way you can make sure you’re getting the raise and getting the compensation that you are worth with receipts to prove it.
Claire Wasserman:
A thousand percent. And again, even though you’re like, “I know I want this money for me.” Remember there’s a margin on your paycheck. They are benefiting from your work. This is not for free.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is one thing that is going to sound maybe a little spicy or controversial. But as someone who is now the person who is hiring and the person who is fielding requests like this sometimes, I think it’s really important to understand that if you want something beyond a cost of living adjustment, you need to be doing more than what is in your job description. I am already paying you for the work you are doing and compensating you well with hopefully benefits and all the rest of that. So if you are going above and beyond those requirements and you can prove that you are, okay, then we can have a conversation about a merit adjustment, a merit increase.
But if you’re like, “I want to make more money.” But you’re just doing what we’re already compensating you for, that’s a hard sell, especially for a company that is not a behemoth, it’s not a multi, multi-billion dollar company.
Claire Wasserman:
Right, totally. And that was actually something just to bring up my mom again, who always worked in nonprofit and in the arts. She said the people who would get the raises are the ones who literally just had ideas for how they could fundraise better. So it’s not even that you necessarily have to add more to your plate because for those listening going, “Oh my gosh, I’m already stretched so thin. I can’t take on anymore.”
Tori Dunlap:
Sure. Sure, sure.
Claire Wasserman:
It’s about being strategic with what you are offering.
And again, go back to maybe it’s saving time and money. Is there a better way to do things? Or you have a really good idea that you want to test out, I mean, this is a really great way of crafting the job that you actually want. So use your job as, I call it like an MBA. You are going to school, but instead of paying, you were being paid. And on top of it, now we get to experiment and see how can we grow more in a direction that we want and also is aligned with the company’s goals. Oh yeah, let’s look at the market data, we might get a raise too.
So instead of feeling super down and it’s all shit, there might be a lot of wins. But you got to start talking, you got to start thinking. And I’m telling everyone here right now, even if you don’t think you’re a good negotiator, if you consider yourself a problem solver, you can be a great negotiator.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. Because you and your boss or your potential boss are not on imposing teams. You are on the same team and it’s trying to solve the problem of you not being compensated fairly. And you’re great at solving problems and it’s why you’re asking for a raise.
Claire Wasserman:
And by the way, you possibly know more as the employee than your boss. Because you are boots on the ground, talking to, I mean, if it’s customers or … I always say this to people who are more on the junior level who are trying to get sponsors or mentors, people of influence and they think, “Well, what do I have to bring to the table?” I actually think you have a lot because you have conversations that those higher up people are not privy to. Chances are they’re like stuck in meetings all day. You really do understand what is working and not working at the company and/or with customers. So you actually bring a ton of insight and you may be able to see ways to solve problems that no one else can think of. Solve those problems and then you get compensated for them. Or at least you make the case-
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Claire Wasserman:
… and you’d be proud of yourself for that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. And you were talking about company goals, and this is my last question around specifically negotiation. But again, as someone who is hiring and who has a team, I think if you come to me and ask for a compensation increase and there’s a misalignment on what you’re doing to contribute to those goals, it’s going to be a lot harder to give you a yes. Because I know where we’re at, I think your boss should be communicating where the company’s at or where you’re at and how you fit into that. And to your point, if you don’t know, you need to figure it out.
And if you’re coming to the table asking for a raise and asking for a compensation increase, but you don’t have a plan and you also don’t have a proven track record of contributing directly to those company goals and you can cite them, it’s going to be a lot harder.
Claire Wasserman:
Yep, it is. But this is where AI can help. Go put all your-
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Claire Wasserman:
… context into like Claude. And I don’t mean to outsource myself here, I mean, please hire me as a coach, sure. But you really, at this point, I mean, when you and I were first starting, when I wrote my first book, I mean, AI was not part of the conversation and it is a wonderful tool to massage communication.
Tori Dunlap:
So speaking of coaching, you coach women who are ambitious, but exhausted. And hello, girl same.
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
How do you help them redefine success in the midst of hustle culture, but in a way where we still feel financially secure?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah. I start with feelings. I start with having everybody identify at least one to three adjectives that they would like to describe about themselves in one year from now. Oftentimes those three adjectives, they often are really just one or maybe two. So for me, it’s how I began my own exercises of reconfiguring my own life was I want to feel creatively inspired and grounded.
And then I did an inventory of my days because our lives are made up of our moments. And I started to use an app called Clockify and I tracked where is my life going. So every time I take an action, I am putting it into the app. And analyzing at the end of every day and every week, where am I spending my time? And how does this ladder up or not to these adjectives that I want? What do I need to reduce? What do I need to add? What can I reconfigure?
And actually a lot of this was about control. What do I have control over? What do I have impact over? And what do I have absolutely nothing to say over? And how do I learn to let it go? And coming up with like little exercises more of myself every day to work towards that. But it was looking at the adjectives, how do I want to describe how I feel in my life was so much more powerful than what’s the number I want in my bank account or the book proposal I’d like to get Meg Thompson, my agent, to say yes to next. Of course those things are all important, but I needed to hold it up against a filter to confirm that I was not pursuing things out of ambition and hustle, as I always had. But more about the life, the feelings I want to have in the life that I am working so hard to create.
Tori Dunlap:
What are one or two questions anybody listening can ask themselves to check if they’re actually pursuing achievement versus genuine enlightenment or like alignment?
Claire Wasserman:
Well, I guess first let’s define what does alignment feel like? What does it look like? Even just starting with your body. Now people talk about somatic experiences, but when I started coaching, that was certainly not part of the conversation, it was all a very intellectual debate. But what in your sort of bones does alignment actually feel like? And to maybe start with memories, when have you ever felt that way? And it’s okay if it was a really long time ago. And also it’s okay if you haven’t ever felt that way.
We can start experimenting, we can start playing with it now. Little micro steps to take that just remind you that you are at least capable of it. That expression, you can’t be what you can’t see. It’s really hard to visualize something if you’ve never felt it in your body. So just know that you don’t need to recreate everything and throw everything out and start fresh. We actually recommend don’t do that. But just small things. When I do this, it makes my body feel open or closed, warm, cold, whatever it is. So start getting in tune with that.
And then get into the habit of pausing before you take any choice. Whether it’s writing an email to somebody, getting on a phone call. Before you go to sleep at night, we are just rushing, rushing, rushing all the time. And by the way, silence can feel really uncomfortable. It’s actually quite powerful. And I’m of course saying this as I need to learn it too. I teach what I must learn, so I want to be very clear on that. But the more you slow down and just check in with your body and say, “Where am I feeling this?” Which by the way, isn’t about feeling great all the time. No, we want to feel some discomfort.
But is it a discomfort that’s more discomfort with curiosity? Or discomfort shut down? There’s going to be shades, nuances. You cannot know what those are for yourself if you don’t even know what to listen to. And they’re often very quiet, subtle signs. So I have found in my practice, a whole new vocabulary, I at least needed to learn after my massive burnout during the pandemic. I was girl bossing too close to the sun, I’m in a recovery girl boss. I was like, “Wow, I don’t even know the language or the questions to ask myself and my body as I take next steps.” So I would say that’s a good place to begin.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that’s so important. And you’re right. Even five years ago, we were not talking about somatics in the same way that we’re talking about them now and it’s really important.
I also will add to that, asking yourself what you truly want. And I know that sounds obvious, but most women can tell you what they don’t want, they can’t tell you what they want. If I ask or Claire asks, “What do you want?” You can’t say, “Well, I don’t want this.” Figure out what it is you truly want. Not what does somebody else want for you or not what does society want for you, but what do you want? Most of us don’t own or know our own wanting.
Claire Wasserman:
I actually, I do start with what do I not want because that is so … I’m so much closer to that than the … Listen-
Tori Dunlap:
Sure, it’ll get you there. Absolutely.
Claire Wasserman:
Because it’s intimidating.
Tori Dunlap:
But I think that … Yeah, most of us, we are so gaslit to want things that we might not even actually care about.
Claire Wasserman:
I married a man. I married a man. I married a man. I didn’t come out till I was 30 because I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I am such a believer that without exposure, you are only operating within the paradigm you’re familiar with. And then you start to get a peak of what could be. And for some people they completely shut down or they start going towards it. But it is such a transitional experience of if you’ve always thought and operated in one way, and to now expect you’re going to be operating in a fully other way. I really want everybody to give themselves space and grace. But please keep moving forward. Tiny steps is … Like that’s how we get there.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, and one of the things you teach women about is commanding respect at work. So what are the few specific language shifts or mindset tools that can help listeners be taken seriously?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah. Well, it all comes down to relationships. I think that’s life in general. But it’s like who knows you and you know them. And the best part about this is you don’t have to be really impressive. You actually just have to ask good questions and maybe listen, active listening, remember things about people. All anybody wants in life, I think is to just be seen. If it comes down to it, we just want to be recognized. And that is in our human nature to connect in that way and then noise gets in the way.
But if you can, in small ways, just make people feel listened to, ask how you can help, “Hey, what are your goals? What are your dreams?” I mean, you’ll ask it in a way that makes sense for you. Boy, that is going to go so far. I mean, men, white men, have the advantage of already looking like the people in power. So there is this inherent bestowing of trust. “Ah, I see myself in you, therefore I trust you.”
So we may have to work … I don’t want to say harder. Because not to make a massive generalization here, but a lot of women are relationship people. We like to connect with each other. And by the way, you can do this on Zoom, you can do this by Slack. Nothing will be an in person experience, but you can quickly message somebody and say, “Hey, I loved what you said in the meeting.” Or even better, during the meeting, “Hey, Tori had a great idea. I just want to give her a shout-out.” That makes you look like a leader. This is how you build respect, it starts from the relationships.
Tori Dunlap:
The job market feels really tough right now.
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
What is your advice for women who are getting ghosted or rejected repeatedly?
Claire Wasserman:
Goodness. Well, first of all, we are all too close to ourselves, so we do need perspective. So I highly recommend you take advantage of all the free resources that you can. And if you’re able to invest a little bit of money, please do so. I have a whole program called the LLC of Me where I show people how to position themselves as basically businesses instead of employees.
I would actually recommend that as a way of rethinking just the jobs you’re applying for. Consider fractional. I think that’s the way of the future. My wife is no longer the CEO of Ladies Get Paid, she now has her own company where she does marketing for personal finance companies.
Tori Dunlap:
What does fractional mean? Like for the uninitiated, what does that look like?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah, fractional. It’s another word for consultant, right? We normally think of consultant like, I don’t know, you got to be wearing a suit and it’s McKinsey. But it’s really just doing the job that used to be full-time. But instead of the full-time hours and the full-time pay, you’re working maybe 20 hours a week or 15 hours a week. Or maybe it’s a three-month contract, by the way, never charge hourly. I mean, maybe I should never say never. But don’t charge hourly because if you are very skilled at what you do, then I hope you’re doing it quickly. You should not be monetarily penalized for that. So it’s always about, how does what I do impact the business bottom line?
So instead of having one company you work for who’s your end all be all, maybe you have three companies you work for getting paid smaller amounts by each, but it’s less hours. Yes, that does mean you’re going to be responsible for your own overhead like healthcare, et cetera. But you may feel a stronger sense of security by not relying on one company for your paycheck, plus it might be sort of like a trial, right? You work 20 hours a week for three months for them and up a full-time opportunity comes your way at that company and now you’re in.
Speaking of companies, I highly recommend that instead of looking for open jobs, you look for companies that you’d like to work for. And just start by networking your way in. We can go into more detail if that’s interesting to you, but don’t limit yourself to what is being listed on the job market. Because so many of those jobs are already in the process of being filled, so you’re already setting yourself up for potential failure. You’ll increase your options if you’re increasing your targets. So just make a list of all the companies that you like, find all of their competitors and start connecting with people in the departments that you’d be interested to work with.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me like I’m five. How do I reach out to somebody? Am I going, “Hello, can I have a job please?” How am I reaching out to the person I want to work with at Nike or whatever company?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah, you could try that and it’s not going to probably work.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s not going to work.
Claire Wasserman:
What I would recommend-
Tori Dunlap:
As someone who gets those messages every week, it does not work.
Claire Wasserman:
It’s funny, someone the other days said, “Oh, Claire, you must get those, I want to pick your brain messages all the time.” And I said, “No, because I’ve talked so much on podcasts about how I hate it, that nobody dares emails me that.” And instead, they message me very thoughtful things where they … And this is my recommendation. Do your research where you say, “Hey, I heard you on this podcast or I saw in this press release or I noticed on the website that X, Y, and Z. And that applies to me. Here’s how I did something similar and I found X. I’m curious if you …” And maybe it’s a super quick question that they can very easily email.
The whole point is you want to just wave your hand. You’re making that first step towards a relationship. You’re not getting married tomorrow, right? You’re not even necessarily getting on a phone call. But you’re letting them know, “Hey, I’m in your space. I have relevant expertise. And I just wanted to let you know I admire what you do or I think the company’s policy that they just announced is really great.” Whatever it is.
You can also start engaging with their posts on LinkedIn. This is a really wonderful, easy, easy way. I mean, you just need to remind yourself to do it. So put a little calendar note on your calendar, maybe every morning when you’re making your coffee. Go on, follow and engage with the people you find interesting. Because remember, if we’re building relationships, this is just the first step. So no need to massively rush into it, even if you’re feeling a little desperate right now. That’s why you should be doing many things, joining communities, working with coaches, asking your friends to connect you, give them boiler plates for that connection, make it easy. Again, you’re not putting all your eggs into one relationship basket. So as long as you’re diversifying and doing a little bit every day, you’re going to be okay.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that’s great advice. How do we manage doing that when it feels like a full-time job while also working a full-time job?
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah, it’s true. I’m going to have to plug myself again here. Just hire me and I actually create your entire job search strategy, your resume, your cover letter, your LinkedIn-
Tori Dunlap:
Sick.
Claire Wasserman:
… and I teach you how to replicate it using AI for any job you want to apply to. And I’m like, “Just pay for speed.” So there’s that.
I would say batch tasks. So know what parts of your brain are being activated when it’s creative writing time versus something super tedious research versus doing copy and paste outreach versus doing whatever. And just look at your schedule and say, “What’s like a 20-minute block?” Start there, start small. And on Mondays, that’s the creative work and it’s in the morning because that’s when your brain fires up. Tuesday is tedious, that’s maybe right before you go to bed or whatever.
Just know that this is an experiment. So I would recommend committing to a plan for about 14 days, maybe 10 to 14 days. And then reflect, how much of an energy drain was this? And then change it up. But here’s the other thing that’s so critical. Please, please, please schedule in activities that have nothing to do with the job search, but that are going to keep you inspired. Because the worst thing you can do here is give off energy that is exhausted. No one wants to be around that.
So just remember why you love your life. I know that’s hard. I know that’s hard if you are in a situation that is totally far away from how you want to love your life. Get those joy activities. And to be honest, projects. This is for somebody, by the way, who maybe either isn’t employed or not doing the job that is the best use of their skills. Your muscles will get rusty. You got to go work them out. So either coming up with your own project, offering, whether it’s volunteer or otherwise to someone else’s project. Stay in the game somehow. And even if it feels like it’s taking you away from the job, like job search, if it’s giving you energy, trust me, it is not taking you out of the job search. It’s investing in it in the sustainability of it long term.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. And I think it’s setting reasonable goals with yourself, but also keeping yourself accountable for those. And I love check-in after the first two weeks. It might just be, okay, I am applying to five jobs and I’m reaching out to three people and I’m meeting up with one person. And that is my weekly tasks. And if I do more than that, great, but that is like the bare minimum. And then you feel how that works, especially if you’re working full-time and you can optimize from there.
Claire Wasserman:
Yes. I also say when things are difficult in your life, it usually means … And I’ll be a little woo-woo for a second, it’s the universe’s curriculum to you of what you need to work on. So if you are feeling really scarcity mode, desperate, impatient, or burnt the F out, well, that means we need to be learning how to have better energy management. And like, what? Are you going to learn that on your new job? No, you’re probably going to be working really fricking hard. This is the exact time to say, “Hey, I’m really struggling with accountability or self-organization. What are some books I can do?”
Tori Dunlap:
Prioritization.
Claire Wasserman:
Yeah. How can I self-educate? How can I start experimenting? Focusmate.com or I have … Honestly, every morning I have an accountability group from 5:00 AM to 7:00 AM because I have primary care, take my kids, I don’t have writing time. But 5:00 AM to 7:00 AM. You think I get up on my own? No, it’s only because I have people on Google Hangout waiting for me. So it’s not lack of willpower if anyone here is wondering, “Oh gosh, I just can’t force myself to do this.” You shouldn’t have to force yourself to do that. That means you’ll burn out. No, set up an environment that will make the follow through that much more easeful.
Tori Dunlap:
You just did a great episode around how to find a job if you’re neurodivergent. Can we talk to those neurodivergent job seekers? Can you share a little bit of what you shared in that episode? And we’ll link it down below as well.
Claire Wasserman:
Gosh, I mean, this was … So just so everyone knows, I have a podcast called Ladies Get Paid. And I coach people who are very brave, who are willing to put themselves out there publicly. We don’t show their face. I also have a Substack called Work in Progress where I give you key insights based on those coaching sessions.
And so this client, Angela, she was feeling like she had to hide her neurodivergency. So it was a liability for her. She had been fired from previous jobs, and I should mention it with some stuff that was undiagnosed that then later became diagnosed. And she felt like there was a lot of masking she had to do, a lot of pretzeling herself to become another person in this job search and this interviewing. And I asked her if … And this was an honest question. Did she feel like any of those liabilities also really helped her? In what ways being neurodivergent could be a benefit to her in her life or in her career?
And she did not have a hard time answering that question. She was like, “Oh, here’s how my ADHD’s really helped me. Or I can read rooms so well.” And then I said, “Okay, now tie it to the business bottom line.” And guess what? That wasn’t hard for her to come up with either. She was like, “Oh, I’m great at customer service.” Whatever. She just went down that path and I said, “I’m not here to give you a false confidence. Just fake it till you make it or ignore it or whatever.” No, no, no. That’s going to waste a lot of energy trying to suppress who you are. The goal is to integrate all aspects of who you are, then filter it strategically based off of what does this job interviewer need to hear from you.
So there’s always a next level of like, let’s be strategic here. But the first step was, how do all these parts of me serve me? And once she saw that it was like a burden had been lifted, no more hiding. And then she had all this amazing energy to bring into the interview and she’s been having a lot more success.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think about that in a different way for folks who are switching industries or switching careers. I call them like bridge skills. How can you identify … You might not have the resume that shows you did this exact job. But you have the skills you need to apply for this role.
So I’ve cited this before, but I had a friend at my first job, her name was Haley, she worked as a maitre d at PF Chang’s and then was like, “I want to go be a recruiter.” And it was like on paper she had no recruiting experience, right? She didn’t have a, “Oh, I’ve worked at this recruiting firm.” But all of the things or all of the skills needed to be a recruiter of someone who’s able to manage their time, someone who’s personable, someone who is efficient and organized. She handled that whole restaurant. She handled people who would come in and be really rude asking for a table and being pissed off when they’d have to wait 45 minutes. She had all of the skills.
So in interviews, she would say, basically go line by line through the job description and have distinct stories where she was like, “Yep, I’ve done that in this way. It might look a little different, but I have the skills you’re looking for.”
Claire Wasserman:
Yes. And I actually think it may make you stand out. I mean, inherently you will-
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Claire Wasserman:
… stand out because you already have a bit of a different resume. This is a good story you’ll particularly appreciate. I had a client who is a graphic designer and she was applying to a finance company and it was down between her and another candidate. And she said, “Claire, he has the traditional background. I don’t know how to compete with that.” I said, “Well, if you’re trying to compete on background, no, you lost. We have to compete on story.” And the reason she even wanted to apply to a finance firm to begin with was because she had been in debt, had a narrative about creative people aren’t good with money. And then self-educated and completely transformed herself and fell in love with finance. She got the job.
So see where you need to kind of lean in, maybe obscure a little bit. Or also you have an outside perspective, that’s a value add. So before you look at these deficits as deficits, I do wonder if any of them could be spun in, “Hmm, how does this deficit actually help me be better at this job?” As long as you don’t feel like you’re totally bullshitting here.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I see this again a lot for college grads or who are early in their career. They’re like, “Why can I ask for more money? Or they’re not going to want me.” And I’m like, “I get a clean slate.” Somebody else has their own prerogative about which things should be done and might be a little stubborn about that. I’m like, “No, it’s a clean slate. I get to teach you from the ground up.” And also you have something to prove. You’re going to hustle, you’re going to show up, you’re going to do good work because you don’t have a chip on your shoulder. You have something to prove. So I tend to love that.
Claire Wasserman:
See?
Tori Dunlap:
And I think other employers do too.
Claire Wasserman:
Let’s never make assumptions. Yeah. I mean, leaning into like, I’m super coachable and here’s how. That’s the other thing is a pet peeve of mine, so y’all don’t ask to pick my brain other pet peeve. If you send me a resume or language about you that just says, “Here’s all the things I can do with zero evidence of how you’ve done it.” Anyone can say that. So just keep in mind, instead of like, “I’m coachable.” Well, here’s an example of how I was coachable. So just always got to get my pet peeves out.
Tori Dunlap:
Here’s an example of the way I managed my time at PF Chang’s.
Claire Wasserman:
Yes, yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, exactly. So you created this new practice, the practice deck, to help people turn self-doubt into self-trust. What is one card or exercise that someone could try today to quiet perfectionism and overthinking? Can we pick one together?
Claire Wasserman:
Oh my goodness.
Tori Dunlap:
Can we actually do this?
Claire Wasserman:
Oh yeah, we could.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re going to pick one right now.
Claire Wasserman:
Okay, okay, okay. So I’m not prepared for this, but I just picked the one that’s on the top-
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s great.
Claire Wasserman:
… because I believe in it.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay.
Claire Wasserman:
So I should mention, so these are 30 cards that are meant to be used for 10 minutes every day because that is the minimum amount of time it takes to create new neural pathways in the brain. And the whole goal is let’s change the way we speak to ourselves. Because I realized that was the common problem amongst all my clients. Didn’t matter what was going on externally in their life, it always came down to how were they self dialoguing.
And how do you change that? Well, you change it by doing a somatic meditation. So each card has five minutes, something to get into your body. Then something to get into your mind. So a journal prompt. And then how do you integrate it into your day? So what is a doable action step that allows you to practice what you did that morning? You can also use these cards whenever you want. They’re color coded based off of blockers. So if you’re feeling overwhelmed, you go over the purple card. Or perfectionist, go for the teal card, right? So if you don’t have the 10 minutes a day, that’s okay too.
All right. So here is the day three and each day build on themselves and it’s turn off the soundtrack. And it’s noticing your mental commentary anytime that you could have, should have. And imagining your voice like a radio dial, an old-fashioned radio. And instead of trying to turn off the soundtrack, because guess what? That’s never going to happen. Your body and mind is not designed to turn it off. We just want you to turn it down. So start playing with what does a dial from ten or eight, what might it look like at a six?
And then when you journal, what tends to be on repeat? What’s spiraling? Maybe just starting with today, what’s like the big thing in your mind or in general? And then the practice for the day is every time that you feel yourself adding a story, it’s just pausing and noticing it. And that is it. That is it. So just getting space between the soundtrack and your embodiment.
And all of these cards I have practiced on myself. I develop them on just suffering through life. Suffering through life and then I use them with my clients. And then I was seeing unbelievable results after one card because sometimes just like, you know when a person says something and it just clicks for you? It’s really wild how as much as I want everyone to do 10 minutes a day for 30 days, sometimes it’s just one card for this one client. She was like, “Man, I was really procrastinating on posting some shit on YouTube and this card just unlocked that fear for me.”
And someone else had a … She’s like, “I had this mental gymnastics about a decision I needed to make.” And even just like this trust the process card, starting to notice how often you’re forward leaning. Or even in your diary, I’m looking at my journal over there because I just got back from retreat. Before the retreat, all my handwriting was tiny and forward and like slanted. And then after the retreat, it’s like taking up more space. Just start noticing it’s not all in your head. Like your body, like you are in a very experimental way, showing the world what you feel you deserve and how you want to be. And again, that may feel scary and overwhelming that, “Oh my gosh, I have so much work to do.” No, that means you have so many opportunities to watch yourself make progress. It’s really exciting. Thank you for letting me talk about this.
Tori Dunlap:
Of course. I’m so excited to try it because I love a good card deck. You have worked with major organizations from NASA to Nike. What is one thing successful women know that others don’t?
Claire Wasserman:
Yes. Yes. I’m so honored that I’ve been able to speak at all of these places. I have to tell you, all the successful people, and I’ll say people because it’s men and women. They are really good at, I’m going to say responding. But I don’t want everyone to feel pressure like they have to respond to emails all the time, that’s not the point. It’s about investing in a relationship.
So I will get an email from somebody who I consider to not have time for me, like this person should not be messaging. “Thinking of you, how you doing?” Or sending me a Christmas card. Or this goes back to what I said earlier about, how do you gain respect in an organization? It’s building relationships. I would say that’s big.
And I think asking for help, but not feeling like you’re burdening somebody by asking for help. So do work backwards from what is my ask and how much time could it potentially be for the other person? And chances are, the best kind of ask is for maybe an intro that you make really easy for them to make for you. Or throwing out a suggestion of like, “Hey, I’m looking for speakers. This is the kind of person.” Let them be a connector for you. So staying in touch, responding to emails, recognizing people and being a connector. That is 100% the through line amongst the most successful people I know. And honestly, my own success. It all comes down to relationships and being that person who makes introductions for other people.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. What is the smallest action someone can take to find a job they love and make more money in 2026?
Claire Wasserman:
I would say the smallest action you can take is to come up with an idea that you can work on steadily a little bit every day that allows you to build the skills, experience and expertise and confidence. Because if you’re waiting to get the job to feel good, you might be waiting a long time.
So really asking yourself, “What can I do today to like get into the motion of witnessing myself literally becoming the person with the job I want?” All the jobs I ever got, by the way, when I first started my career, it was all through self-directed projects, all of them. So I’m a big believer in that. Don’t wait for the opportunity to get started.
Tori Dunlap:
No, and it’s forward momentum too when you think about, okay, the control of the things I can control. I can control my own output. I can control my own growth. The environment, the job market might be a little spicy. But I can do this concrete thing that shows up in my life and in my career, that benefits me and benefits my mental health and also is going to help me find a job.
Claire Wasserman:
Yes. And don’t do it alone. Literally everybody that you meet. So by the way, that small one action you can take right now, it’s most likely joining a community or showing up to a webinar, being engaged in the chat. I’ve had people come to Ladies Get Paid events who now are like co-founders or roommates. I mean, I married somebody in my own community and they met in the chat, in the chat room. So it’s a very small step that can go a long way.
And when you’re connecting with people, ask, “What are you looking for? How can I help you?” And start thinking to yourself, A, does this person make sense to collaborate with? And/or B, who can I introduce them to? Then you’re continuing the momentum from the conversation. And again, I swear I have built an entire career off of this. I know that anyone can do it.
Tori Dunlap:
Claire, thank you so much. You are one of my favorite people to talk to. Every time I’m like … I want you to do a calm sleep story, by the way. Your voice is so soothing. I’m like, I need you to tell me everything’s going to be okay in the world and I will believe you.
Claire Wasserman:
You know my son has had multiple open heart surgeries. I have literally and I just … I’m so liberated from having experienced, whether or not you put this in the podcast, you can totally do that. Just for anybody who’s gone through really intense shit and thinks, “Oh no, it’s a distraction or diversion. I can’t get back to my life because this extreme.” True, true. My business was derailed. However, I can send emails with spelling errors and not spiral about them now because I have the perspective of I know what really hardship looks like. And I’m so sort of grateful for it.
So for anybody who’s going through a really hard time, it’s like, how can you use this to your benefit? And not in a toxic positivity kind of way. But truly, what are the life lessons this is teaching me that are painful as fuck to learn, but I can leverage now. And I have literally found so much wisdom and liberation in the hardships. So I appreciate all of you saying kind things.
Tori Dunlap:
I have been a long admirer of your work, you know that. And I want you to plug away, where can people find out more about you?
Claire Wasserman:
Yes. So CoachMeClaire.com. Claire Gets Paid, Ladies Get Paid. I’ve got two free newsletters every week. And if you’d like to upgrade and become a paid subscriber, listen to podcast, Ladies Get Paid. I have a couple of spots open for coaching. And of course, the Ladies Get Paid book. And whatever my next book will be, Meg Thompson, my agent, I will be emailing you shortly. So I appreciate you.
Tori Dunlap:
Amazing. Thank you.
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminists, produced by Her First $100K. If you love the show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you’re looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to http://herfirst100k.com/ffpod.
Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Sciortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Sasha Bonar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Meghan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
