If you’ve been checking every box, hitting every goal, and somehow feeling further away from yourself than ever, this episode is for you.
Our guest today is Michelle Razavi, and she’s back with an important message. Since she was last on the show, she and her co-founder Nikki have grown their business Elavi into a multimillion-dollar business now in Costco, Whole Foods, H-E-B, and Thrive Market. Michelle is one of the rare founders who builds with absolute tenacity and protects her peace. In this episode we get into the neuroscience of why hustle mode is working against you, the tech boundaries that actually hold, the real psychology of why you won’t delegate, and what it takes to build as a woman of color when the odds are stacked against you.
Key takeaways:
Manage your energy, not your time
Time management is kind of antiquated. Getting things done is not the same as being productive. You can blast through your inbox all day and never move the needle on the thing that actually matters. Michelle’s reframe: stop asking “what’s on my list?” and start asking “when is my energy in flow, and what’s draining it?” Notice where your best work actually comes from (morning? evening?) and protect that window like it’s a meeting with your most important client. Because it is.
Regulation is a business skill
Michelle’s executive coach (also a psychologist) told her something that rewired her brain: the executive-function part of your brain and the stress-response part can’t run full-throttle at the same time. When you’re in constant fight-or-flight, you literally can’t analyze, decide, or seize momentum — the exact things that build a company. As CEO, her job isn’t just to be regulated; it’s to make sure her whole team is, too. Rest isn’t the reward for the work. It’s what makes the work possible.
“Can it wait?” is a two-second tool that breaks the urgency reflex
So many of us treat every Slack, every email, every DM like it’s make-or-break. Michelle learned through reps that the company doesn’t crash if she doesn’t reply within two hours. Her go-to question when a notification interrupts deep work: Can it wait? Usually, it can. Pair it with “Is this serving me?” and you’ve got a tiny mindfulness practice you can run in the middle of chaos.
Delegation stalls because of control and ego
The reason you won’t delegate isn’t that no one can do it like you. It’s control. And honestly, a little ego. The mindset shift that freed Michelle: no one will do it 100% your way, but if they can do it at 80%, take it. “Only I can do this” makes you the bottleneck in your own business. Get radically honest about your actual strengths, delegate the rest, and stop hand-cuffing your own growth.
Build technology boundaries that actually hold
Phone out of the bedroom (Tori keeps hers in the bathroom). Do Not Disturb auto-on at 10pm. Scheduled, limited social log-ins instead of all-day access. Apps like Clearspace to lock yourself out during strict hours. Calendar-blocked deep-work time with notifications off. Unfollow and mute the accounts spiking your cortisol. Social media is built like a slot machine — it’s designed to never end. You control the phone; the phone doesn’t control you.
Women are held to a “get it right the first time” standard
Less than 2% of venture funding goes to women, and a fraction of a percent to women of color. Michelle had investors who didn’t believe she could pull off a raise. The double bind: society tells women to take big swings and build in public, then punishes them brutally for any mistake. The fix is collective. If we want women taking up space, we have to put an arm around the woman who messed up, took accountability, and kept going. Tearing other women down doesn’t serve you. It serves the patriarchy.
The fastest way to regulate? Put your phone away
Michelle’s one-shift advice for the woman whose ambition is costing her peace: physically put your phone down. Our phones pull us away from the intuition, creativity, and presence that are genuinely our superpowers. Notice what an hour without it does to your nervous system. It’s the simplest, fastest reset there is.
Notable quotes
“Rejection is protection.”
“You control it. The phone does not control you.”
“Let’s rebrand delegation. Delegation’s hot.”
Episode at-a-glance
00:00 Intro
03:30 Energy management vs. time management
05:00 Executive function vs fight-or-flight
09:30 Getting comfortable being uncomfortable
14:00 “Why isn’t it happening for me?”
19:00 Urgent vs. important
24:00 “Can it wait?” and “Is this serving me?”
27:00 The physical first signs of burnout
36:00 When online harassment becomes a panic response
40:00 You can’t go from chaos to calm in two minutes
42:00 The five senses checklist + sitting on the ground
44:00 Redefining relationships and “balance” across seasons
47:00 Technology boundaries that actually hold
54:00 Let’s rebrand delegation: accepting 80%
59:00 Building as a woman of color when people doubt you
1:05:00 Envy as information
1:09:00 One small shift this week: put your phone away
Thanks to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode!
Thanks to BetterHelp for sponsoring this episode!
Michelle’s Links:
Website: https://elavi.co/
Additional Resources:
What You Really Need to Know as a Woman Business Owner with Michelle Razavi
Overcoming Anxiety to Find Your Purpose with Dr. Martha Beck
Navigating Your Path to Entrepreneurship with Jenna Kutcher
Millionaire Mindset: Time Wealth
Visit https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod to grab a copy of our free Side Hustle Skill Finder to figure out exactly which of your existing skills can make you money!
RESOURCES:
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Our HYSA Partner Recommendation (terms apply)
Behind the Scenes and Extended Clips on Youtube
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Meet Michelle
Michelle Razavi is the Founder & CEO of Elavi, the permissible dessert company that’s a category leader at Costco and Whole Foods, and a #1 bestseller on Amazon. She’s built a multi-million dollar brand in just a few years with her co-founder Nikki, and is one of few Middle Eastern women who has successfully raised venture capital in the food industry.
Michelle has been named to Inc.’s Female Founders 250, a list of America’s most dynamic, pioneering, and inspirational women entrepreneurs. With a killer track record in e-commerce from powerhouse gigs at Eventbrite and Sephora, Michelle brings a wealth of expertise at the intersection of digital, consumer, and building great products. Outside of running her company, she’s also a certified fitness trainer and yoga teacher teaching classes part-time at Equinox in Los Angeles. Michelle is passionate about empowering entrepreneurs and living a holistic life rooted in nutrition, movement, and mindset.
Transcript:
Tori Dunlap:
If you’ve been checking every box, hitting every goal, and somehow feeling even further away from yourself than ever, this episode is for you. My guest today is Michelle Razavi. She’s the co-founder of Elavi, yoga and fitness trainer, and someone I respect enormously as a builder. She also happens to be one of the entrepreneurs that I have angel invested in. Since she was last on the show, she and her co-founder, Nikki, have grown Elavi into a multimillion dollar brand now in Costco, Whole Foods, H-E-B, Thrive Market, and more. I feel like such a proud mom or bigger sister.
So yes, I’m biased that this company’s amazing, but I’m also right because Michelle is here to talk about what it actually took to build the business of her dreams and how she used her training to build systems and structures that keep her from burning out. I truly think she’s so good at this, and it is a balance that a lot of women have a really hard time striking. How do you build and how do you fuel your ambition while also taking deep care of yourself? And we’re not talking like face masks, we’re talking like actually regulating your nervous system.
In this conversation, we get into the neuroscience of why hustle mode is working against you, how to set technology boundaries that actually hold the real psychology of why you won’t delegate, and what it looks like to build as a woman of color when the odds, and some of your own investors even, are stacked against you. This is the episode for anyone whose ambition has started to cost them their peace. And I know you heard that and already know five other women who need to hear it too. So go ahead and share it with them and let’s get started. But first, a word from our sponsors.
Michelle, what boundary do high achieving women need to set that they don’t have set right now?
Michelle Razavi:
Women need to set boundaries around energy management. It’s less about time management and more about managing your energy so that you can show up as the best version of yourself.
Tori Dunlap:
What is the difference between time and energy?
Michelle Razavi:
When you think about energy management, it’s taking that time to ask yourself, “When am I most in flow? When is my energy most optimal? Is it in the morning? Is it in the evening when my brain is firing all cylinders and my best work comes out?” And it’s being really honest with yourself of what is draining your energy, right? Is it people that you need to set boundaries with, technology you need to set boundaries with, your company that you need to set boundaries with?
And so often we put everything else in front of taking care of ourselves. And so this conversation is so important to have because we want to get ahead of those moments when we have the breaking points, the mental breakdowns, the physical ailments that manifest when we’re not setting those boundaries.
Tori Dunlap:
I think we have had conversations as a society about time management a lot, right? But I think we’re only just starting to talk about energy management. In your day-to-day, how might somebody who’s good at managing their time, or who thinks they’re good at managing their time, get good at managing their energy instead?
Michelle Razavi:
It’s asking those questions to yourself, and so often we’re so in go, go, go, to do list, check it off, check it off. And by the end of the day, we finally get to sit with ourselves when we should actively be asking ourselves in those moments of stress, of chaos, “How am I feeling? Does this sit right? Are my shoulders tensed up? Is my breath not regulated?” Being able to stop at those micro moments and catching ourselves in the middle of a doom scroll, in the middle of things that deplete us to really think about, “Okay, is this where my energy is in flow? Is this where it’s most productive for me?”
And time management, I think it’s such an antiquated way of thinking because just getting things done does not mean you’re productive. Just getting through your inbox does not mean you’re productive, right? It’s can you get the best, most efficient work done in the time that it actually needs to take. It’s about making sure that you’re moving the needle for your business and not getting stuck in the busy work that so many of us do. And so I think that’s the way that we should be reframing our time and less about getting things done and more about how do I utilize my energy in the best capacity to move the needle?
Tori Dunlap:
One of the reasons I’m so excited to have you back on the show is that since we’ve chatted, you and Nikki, who’s your co-founder, have grown Elavi to a multimillion-dollar business. You are in Costco’s, you’re in Whole Foods. A lot has happened in a short amount of time. And what I admire about you so much is that you have this absolute tenacity as a business owner, but you’re also a fitness trainer who teaches yoga, and you I think do a really good job of managing both your ambition while keeping your peace. From the outside, this has looked like nonstop momentum. What has it actually been like?
Michelle Razavi:
It’s a roller coaster in all of the best ways, right? You can’t experience the highs without experiencing the lows, and right now I’m in the season of nervous system regulation because I was having a conversation with my executive coach, and she’s also a psychologist, and she shared this wisdom with me that really changed my brain chemistry. And it was that your prefrontal cortex, your executive function, the front of the brain, which is what makes us human, cannot be active and functioning if the back of the brain, the amygdala, the flight or fight, stress response is turned on. Both sides of the brain can’t be on at the same time.
And she told me that it is my job as the CEO to make sure that not only I’m regulated, but my entire team is regulated. And if we are not regulated, then we cannot function, we cannot think critically, we cannot analyze information. And that is really what drives momentum in a company, right? Being able to make decisions quickly, being able to jump on momentum, being able to act quickly. If we’re stressed out, if we’re constantly in this fight or flight response, then we can’t take advantage of that momentum. And so that’s been a priority for me, and that’s what yoga and fitness have given to me is those forced breaks away from the company to allow myself to shift back into that front of the brain, the executive function, and get out of the stress response.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think we know psychologically somewhere that like, yes, rest is good for us.
Michelle Razavi:
Of course.
Tori Dunlap:
But I think we do the thing as women, and I’m guilty of this where I go, “Oh, Michelle, you need to rest, and my friends need to rest, and my family need to rest, and everybody’s working so hard and you need to rest, but I can’t.” I am somehow exempt from this and that maybe yes, I can rest, but there’s still something inside of us that says, “Oh, that’s weakness, that is not us operating at full capacity.” But what you’re telling us is that if we want to be at full capacity, if we want to achieve our goals, like literally in our brain, it is not allowing us to do that if we are doom scrolling constantly or if we’re burning ourselves out.
Michelle Razavi:
Right. Well, think about it, right? Maybe for the first couple years of building a business, sacrificing everything, giving your all, staying up all night, not sleeping, not eating healthy, that works until it doesn’t. And then at a certain point you get the [inaudible 00:07:29], you start to resent the company that you’re building because it’s taking away the time that you are trying to create for yourself.
Tori Dunlap:
Right, or whatever goal you’re trying to achieve-
Michelle Razavi:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
… it’s the same way.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. Aside from being a business owner, the whole point is you want to make sure that you’re enjoying the ride. And I think that’s the season I’m in too is I was in so much of hustle, get it done, prove everyone, prove to myself that I can do this, that I can accomplish everything and then more. And there was a moment where I was hitting all these milestones and I was like, “I can’t even enjoy it. I can’t even appreciate it because I’m so onto the next.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re onto the next. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
Exactly. And I want to give permission and not have anyone feel guilty about that because we all deal with it and I think it’s a construct of society. It’s kind of this-
Tori Dunlap:
Capitalism. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah, this patriarchal structure where it’s like you should feel lucky to even have the success, and it could be gone at any moment because there’s this scarcity mindset that has been programmed into women, and additional programming of putting everyone else’s needs above ourselves.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Michelle Razavi:
And so it does take a lot of work, and rewiring, and reinforcing, and these micro moments that have to build for you to prove to yourself this is actually what you need is you have to slow down a little bit to accelerate.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. We say a lot on the show that you have to get comfortable being uncomfortable and that growth or change or any of these things feel deeply unsettling and often very uncomfortable. Given that half of startups fail by year five, what do you think that difference maker has been for you?
Michelle Razavi:
What you just said about being comfortable with the uncomfortable, I immediately think about fitness, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
I think about going to the gym. At first it’s super uncomfortable, you don’t want to be there, you feel awkward, you maybe do a workout and then you feel sore afterwards and you don’t like that feeling, but it’s pushing past that discomfort because on the other side it’s you’re stronger physically and mentally and you have all of these benefits from staying consistent and committed, and that’s exactly it. That’s the perfect analogy of like sometimes the discomfort is necessary because on the other side of it is growth, it’s development, it’s progression.
And as humans we are designed to adapt, and I think we lose sight of that. And I think it’s very natural and normal to want what’s comfortable and safe, right, especially in this world, but I know deep down all of us are going to be better off if we’re in this mindset that we are designed and we are able to adapt and grow, and that we are a lot more resilient than we think we are.
Tori Dunlap:
Fitness is the perfect example where there is nothing that will humble you more, and it’s like the thing you’re doing that makes you feel weaker actually makes you feel stronger. Like, “Oh, I’m going to the gym and I can’t lift this heavy weight more than three times.” Okay, we call that progressive overload. That’s how you get stronger, but in the moment you’re like, “Oh, I’m so weak. I can’t do this.” Or I do bar classes all the time, and you’re literally shaking at times. And if you do reform Pilates, it’s the same thing.
And over and over, you’ll hear instructors say, “No, this is change in your body.” But we do the things that in the moment actually make us feel sometimes worse of like, “Oh, I’m failing, or I’m not strong enough, or I’m not good enough.” And it’s like, no, that discomfort is exactly where you’re supposed to be if you actually want to achieve your goals.
Michelle Razavi:
And what a beautiful thing, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
To be able to feel discomfort and move through it and prove to yourself that you’re stronger than you initially thought you were. I find that so empowering.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, and often I think that level of discomfort, it’s very easy for women to say, “Oh, this isn’t working because I’m not good enough.” Or, “Oh, this is uncomfortable because I can’t do it.” And I’m like, no, it’s just uncomfortable because it’s unknown. You’ve never done this before. And so it feels unsteady not because you don’t have a strong enough foundation for yourself, but because this is just new.
And I think about that with money all the time. Women tell me, “Oh, I’m bad with money.” And I’m like, “You’re not bad with money, you’re learning a new skill. If I tried to speak Portuguese to you right now, I know no Portuguese. I’m going to be really bad at it for a while.” That’s totally normal, but that’s how you get better at speaking a language, or running a business, or getting better with money is you have to embrace that level of discomfort.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And look, everyone has a day one, and your day 5,000 is different than someone’s day five. And I think we have to remind ourselves, especially with social media, that we’re looking at people that are years in sometimes. So there’s stuff behind the scenes that we’re not seeing and we all at a certain point start at day one somewhere. There’s a day one for everyone and it’s part of the process. And I think like I said, it’s such a beautiful thing to be able to start something, to create something, and I’m trying to be more in this create mode versus consume mode.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. When I was growing Her First $100K and I’ve talked about this on the show before, I remember in the very early days, and I’ll call her out because she’s a friend now, I would watch Jenna Kutcher-
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah, love her.
Tori Dunlap:
… and I would look at her and I’d go, “I want her business. I want what she has.” And if you look back on my Instagram posts, I’m very clearly copying the way she puts her captions together. It was very much fan girl energy, but I kept thinking, “I want that and I know I’m capable of that, so why is it not happening for me?” I was very impatient 2017, 2018, even 2019 going like, “I know I’m capable of this. Why isn’t it happening?” And what I realized over time was, yeah, let’s say magically a genie came and gave me Jenna Kutcher’s business. I would not have been able to handle it because she’s put in the reps in a way that I hadn’t at that time. She has all of the years under her belt of experience and of trial and error.
And so if I had magically gotten everything I wanted at that time, it would’ve failed. I would not have been able to run that because I wouldn’t have the skillset to do it. I think a lot of women are battling this feeling of I know I’m capable of more, or I know I want more, why isn’t it happening soon enough? And what I’ve realized is like as cheesy as it sounds, these things happen when they’re supposed to, but you have to be prepared and you have to go through and do your reps in order to get to that point.
Were there times in building Elavi or other goals that you had where you were like, “Why isn’t this happening?” And now you look back and you’re like, “Oh, that didn’t happen at that time for this specific reason”?
Michelle Razavi:
1,000%. There’s so many times I can speak to when I wanted to be at Whole Foods, when I wanted to be at Costco, when I wanted our business to be at this level that I would see other people at, and I kept getting into this vicious loop of why them and not me? And I realized that I needed everything to happen to me in the order that it did looking back because it helped me get stronger and better to handle success.
I am so glad that we launched in Whole Foods five years in versus on year two because the amount of work, and tenacity, and discipline that it takes to pull off a Whole Foods launch is something that we would not have been prepared for in so many ways, from a nervous system standpoint, from a financial standpoint, from an experience standpoint. And so I have so much gratitude for things happening at the timing that they did and it’s so easy to look back and be like, I’m so glad. What a blessing. The whole rejection is protection, I 100% believe in that.
And the moment it’s really hard, and I think what helps ground me now is that I truly believe that whatever will happen will happen, and whatever’s meant to be meant to be. And I know this sounds a little divine and woo-woo, but I think we also need to have the confidence that whatever comes our way, we’re able to handle it and that it is our job to take the lessons and bring in that gratitude for what is in front of us and see everything as an opportunity to learn.
Tori Dunlap:
A lot of women listening, whether they’re moms, whether they’re trying to grow their careers, or their founders like you and I, they’re juggling a lot of balls in the air all the time, and they’re living in this constant, everything is an emergency.
Michelle Razavi:
Yes. Oh my God.
Tori Dunlap:
Everything’s urgent. How did you train yourself to distinguish between what is urgent, what’s actually important, versus what feels urgent?
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. I love this question because I definitely struggled with this in my first year of business. I thought I had to respond to every single customer email right as it came in because everything was so make or break, and that comes with time, and experience, and reps of realizing, okay, the company’s not going to crash and burn if I don’t get back to someone within two hours. And even outside of a company, I think we as women tend to, like I said, put everyone else’s needs above ours. And when we do that, then it ends up taking a toll on our mental health, our physical health, and it’s at the end of the day, not productive.
And so how I was able to get myself out of that was the reps of just practicing what would happen if I don’t respond to this email in a couple hours? And it felt very uncomfortable and I could feel my heart rate raise, and I saw that after two hours, nothing happened, and I was able to come to that email with more intention, with more levelheaded energy. And then just finding micro moments through my day where I can be more protective of my energy. So I do not go to bed with my phone next to me anymore and it was the best decision ever. So I’m not staying up late scrolling on TikTok wasting my time and going to bed later, and I’m not waking up to Slack and email notifications first thing in the morning.
And these little micro areas where I can protect my energy and remind myself that I’m ultimately designing my life. And I think we forget that, that life happens to us when it’s actually we’re creating and designing our lives. We’re the main character in our lives and so we get to design this movie. If we want to take a break so that we can regroup, we can. And if we want to be able to design structures and systems so that we can respond to all the day-to-day stressors, that’s okay too. And I think having conversations like these are so important to hear how are other people doing that and how it’s so impactful and important to do that.
Tori Dunlap:
You’re once again reaffirming something that I’ve said on this show time after time that many guests have said, which is that mindfulness piece. I think it is so important for anybody listening to take what Michelle just said and go, “Okay, how can I actually implement that in these moments of stress?” So like you were saying, okay, realizing, oh, in the moment I’m doing a thing that does not feel good, and is not actually productive, and that is not benefiting me in any way. So how can I stop it without shaming myself and then recalibrate in the moment?
And that’s what we’re talking about is if you truly want to be more regulated, you want to balance the sense of peace or the sense of calm with all of the goals you do have, like this mindfulness is a required skill. And just like any other skill, you will get better at it over time, but you do have to stop yourself at certain times or certain moments and go, “Yep, this isn’t serving me right now.”
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And can I offer one extra tip that I’ve been using?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes, please.
Michelle Razavi:
I have been asking myself this question of, “Can this wait?” Where a notification will come in through Slack as I’m in the middle of like deep work for something else-
Tori Dunlap:
That’s the perfect urgent versus not urgent, can it wait? Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And I’ll see a Slack come in and I’m like, “Can it wait? Yeah, it can.” And that judgment call, it’s a muscle you’ll flex. It’s not going to necessarily be strongest right from the bat, but I’ve been flexing that and that’s been so helpful. And I’ve been encouraging my team as well where I’m like, “I might Slack you at a weird odd hour. You don’t have to respond if that’s not the most opportune time for you.” And so the can it wait I think is a really helpful quick way to snap your brain out of that fight or flight I have to respond right away, everything is urgent, and more into, let’s be thoughtful.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I love that. Can it wait?
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. And also is this serving me? Like always, is this serving me? And if it’s not, again, not going like, “Oh God, I spent 45 minutes on TikTok today, fuck.” Shaming yourself like, “Oh, I let that person at work get to me again.” It’s just like, no, okay, is this serving me? Nope. Okay. So let’s choose a different thought. Let’s go down a different path.
Michelle Razavi:
Choose again.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. When you notice yourself slipping into a reactive mode, like we’re talking about, okay, this thing happens, I’m reacting. What are the first signs in your body and your behavior that tell you that burnout is creeping in?
Michelle Razavi:
Elevated heart rate, shortness of breath, sweaty hands, and these are similar to a panic attack, these are similar to a stress response. And the physiological response is, look, I’m more in tune with my body because I teach yoga and I practice that and I’ve been doing that for years, but these little moments, even just thinking about how is my breath feeling? Am I feeling this tightness? And where is this compression, is it in my-
Tori Dunlap:
You just said breath and I was like I haven’t taken a deep breath all day.
Michelle Razavi:
Or my favorite is are my shoulders coming up to my ears?
Tori Dunlap:
Yep, just you saying that I’m like okay.
Michelle Razavi:
Did my neck suddenly disappear and I need to drop it down? So it’s like these moments, yeah exactly, take a deep breath. Everyone else take a deep breath. These moments, these physical cues are your first line of defense of realizing, okay, I’m in fight or fight response right now. And look, we’re not going to be perfect. Sometimes we get reactive, sometimes still, very often I still get reactive.
Tori Dunlap:
I do too.
Michelle Razavi:
And what I try to do is build some systems or protective forces against myself. So if someone sends me an email and it immediately jolts me, I have now learned like, okay, can it wait? Can I take a beat? Sometimes I’ll run it through ChatGPT and be like, “Hey, how would you respond?” Or, “Help me process through this.” Or I’m fortunate to have a co-founder, I’ll be like, “Hey, I need to chat through this,” or kind of chat someone that is your peer or your partner. So to be able to kind of get it off your chest, or write it down, or set a calendar invite to come back to this leader. All these ways are little tools that you can kind of create to protect yourself to try to stop yourself from reacting, and it’s normal.
Tori Dunlap:
Happened to me recently. I thought that my period of reacting to this kind of thing was over like 2022, 2023 was going through a lot of like people yelling at me online and it feels very, I joke it’s pitchforks and torches. Your body doesn’t know the difference between people yelling at you online and people standing outside your door with pitchforks and torches. Your body does not understand the difference. And I candidly thought, “Oh, I have the tools to be able to handle this. I’ve been through this, I know what’s going on.”
Happened a couple months ago, super reactive, wasn’t fully in that space I was in a couple years ago, but looking back a day later I was like, oh, that was kind of PTSD, and I just went right back there. And I didn’t blame myself again. I wasn’t like, “Oh, you’re not as evolved as you thought you were.” I was just like, “Oh, interesting. Okay. So we got more work to do there.”
Michelle Razavi:
Right. How did it feel in your body?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, it’s pitchforks and torches. Even talking about it, knees weak, arms heavy, like palms are sweaty. I also just feel … Literally in 2023, my partner at one point found me in a closet. I had curled up in a closet because I was like, “I need to feel as small as possible, and I need to have nobody find me and nobody can get me here.” That’s when it was really bad.
Michelle Razavi:
I’m so sorry.
Tori Dunlap:
And so that same feeling, you can just see even like I’m getting a little teary, that same feeling came up where I was like, yeah, I felt like a child. I felt like I need to make myself as small as possible. I need to find the place for nobody can hurt me. And yeah, it was like, okay, we’ve done a lot of work there. Sounds like we still have some more work to do there.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. Can I ask, how did you get yourself out of it?
Tori Dunlap:
I called my lawyer.
Michelle Razavi:
There you go. I love that.
Tori Dunlap:
I called my lawyers, who are great. We’ve been working with our lawyers now for a couple years, so they know me, they know our business really well, and I’ve also become friends with them. So they’re there to both soothe me as like a friend and somebody they care about, but also to be like, I needed the cerebral person to tell me-
Michelle Razavi:
Right, pull you back in.
Tori Dunlap:
… “Yeah, okay. We’ll handle this if this happens, and this is what we can do. Otherwise, we’re just going to watch it and nothing’s going to happen.” And I’m like, “Great, okay.” And then even in like 20 minutes I had calmed down because I had processed it with somebody else, and also processed it with somebody who I, A, trusted, but B, knew that they would give it to me straight.
Michelle Razavi:
Right. Well, I think that’s the first step is understanding what are your tools to kind of pull you out of that, so that you can immediately in this stressed out state be like, okay, I know I have my lawyer, I know I have this close-
Tori Dunlap:
My partner, or for me it’s my COO, it’s somebody else on the team. I also will say, and I would love your thoughts on this, in 2022, 2023 when I was definitely burned out when things were really … I had just launched the book, I was like not doing well. Everybody had told me, and all of the wisdom was, “You need to go meditate. That’s how you calm your brain down.” And I did that for so long and realized it wasn’t working. And instead, I needed to throw some fucking pillows around, or I needed to go on a walk, or I needed to just scream honestly and just get energy out of my body. How do we know the difference between I need to put my hand on my heart, hand on my chest, take like 10 deep breaths, put a meditation on, and go to a rage room? How do we know the difference?
Michelle Razavi:
There’s no one size fits all approach, and that’s the beautiful thing, right? For some people regulating and getting out of that state could be going on a run because they need to just like move it out of their bodies.
Tori Dunlap:
I had to get it out of my body, yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And for some other people, it’s touching grass and getting into nature or petting a dog and just like reminding themselves that it’s not that deep. At the end of the day, we’re like a tiny little blip of the universe and kind of get some perspective, right? It’s different for everyone and I think what we should practice, and I want to empower if anyone walks away with anything, is that different things are going to work for different people and at different times of your life. So maybe meditation worked at a certain point for you until it didn’t.
Tori Dunlap:
Or at least for that situation, absolutely.
Michelle Razavi:
Exactly. Yeah. And situation’s vary. So I think it’s having this toolbox and go out and try. Does running work? Does yoga work? Does petting a dog work? Or does giving back and donating your time and volunteering work, just to get yourself out of your brain and into thinking about other people? Try different things, see what works, so that when you’re in that stressed out state you kind of have your list to go through and be like, “Okay, I’m going to try this. I’m going to try this.”
What works best I think is just knowing yourself and having those past experiences of like, okay, I need to just go punch a pillow, or yell in my car, or really just see what works and kind of go down your list and be like, does this work? No. Does this work? No. When I teach yoga, I tell everyone that Shavasana, which is like at the end of class when you lie down and you like-
Tori Dunlap:
That’s me for an hour in yoga class by the way. I’m not doing anything else, dude. I’m just-
Michelle Razavi:
Love that for you. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m just like that.
Michelle Razavi:
But some people, they can’t rest. They need to tire out the body with 60 minutes of movement, and flow, and breath work so that they can finally rest. And I think that’s a great analogy for sometimes you need to move things out of the body physically-
Tori Dunlap:
That is me, honestly. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
… and then you can be ready to be with the breath.
Tori Dunlap:
We do that at the end of bar. It’s like I work really hard for 45 minutes, and my meditation at the end of that is so good all the time. I can actually clear my mind because I’ve gotten it out of my body.
Michelle Razavi:
You shook it out. And so I think that’s the grace that we should have with ourselves. You’re not going to go from chaos to meditation in two minutes. Sometimes you need to have something in between to kind of physically move it out.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. When we had Martha Beck on the show, Dr. Beck, she was so great and we’ll link the episode, but she talked about the antidote to anxiety isn’t doing less, it’s actually doing something, like taking some sort of action.
Michelle Razavi:
100%.
Tori Dunlap:
So is it like doing a puzzle, or doing a project, or again, walking or doing something as opposed to thinking, “Oh, I need to clear my mind in two minutes.” And you’re exactly right. It is very unrealistic to say, “Oh, I am in fight or flight, I am freaking out, and in two minutes I’m going to be a blissed out monk.” That’s just not going to work.
Michelle Razavi:
No. Have you heard of the five senses checklist?
Tori Dunlap:
Oh yeah, where you talk about three things you can see, or five things-
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Tell the audience.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. So I might butcher the order, but it’s like five different things you see, and then four different things you hear, three different things you can smell, two things you can touch. So it’s like going through all the five senses and trying to count like, “Okay, I see that black door, I see this blue water bottle, I see whatever,” and just calling it out. And it forces your brain to get out of the stress response-
Tori Dunlap:
You’re forced to be present, yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
… and force you to be present. And that’s great for panic attacks, that’s great for thought loops or spirals that you’re going through, and it just helps ground your nervous system. Second thing, which I know sounds really silly, is just sitting down on the ground. And when you think about it children, they play on the ground because it helps regulate them. And so sometimes when I’m in back to back meetings or I’m just way overstimi and I need to ground, especially if it’s like I’m at Costco all day or whatever, I’ll just sit on the ground, and that helps me reconnect for a little bit.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I think that’s great. Something you’ve talked about when in your early years you struggled with building while also maintaining your regular life, or even losing friendships or losing relationships.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Were those relationships ones that needed to end or have you found a better way to balance that all now?
Michelle Razavi:
I think the word balance is-
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, oh it’s totally a myth.
Michelle Razavi:
… kind of an interesting word. I think it’s just redefining. And we go through seasons, everyone goes through seasons. Outside of being a business owner, women go through seasons of getting married, motherhood, we evolve and shift. I think for close relationships that are worth having, redefining those with your friends and being like, “Hey, I’m in a really busy season. I love you, but I’m just not going to have the time to do catch up calls every week. But if you need me, we’ll voicemail back and forth.” So just kind of redefining relationships and being honest and communicative about what bandwidth you do have, what you can give. And as long as you’re honest and upfront, I feel like that’s the best way to handle those relationships.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think it is also understanding that reason, season, lifetime is so crucial with relationships. Sometimes they’re there for a reason, sometimes they’re there for a season, sometimes they’re there for your whole life, but there are going to be moments where you’re able to be a better friend, or a better partner, and there are moments where unfortunately that might have to be a secondary thing. And the myth of women having it all, we can’t. And that’s where you properly called out the word balance because you can’t really do … Nothing’s really balanced. It is a trade-off at certain parts or certain times of your life.
Michelle Razavi:
100%. I’ve gone to so many bachelorette parties with my friends where I bring my laptop and everyone is going to sleep, and I’m the one still working on emails, or I’m in the middle of preparing for a big Costco pitch. And they laugh about it because they’re my friends. They’re not going to make fun of me or make me feel bad about it. I’m just like, “Hey, I’m in the middle of this. I have to do this. I’m still here celebrating you.”
Tori Dunlap:
And also these are my goals, I’m choosing to do this. This is something that’s really important to me.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And they’re so excited about it, and they’re like, “That’s so cool.” And they’re like, “Oh my God, we can’t wait to buy your products in Costco.” And once you bring people along the journey and you share with them what you’re building, you’d be surprised how supportive the people who are your core people are. And I think that’s a great litmus test of how are people showing up when you’re going after your dreams and your passions? What a cool thing, and hopefully you can inspire them to do the same. And then when they’re going through a busy season of whether they’re going through motherhood or whatever, it comes back.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. You were mentioning technology. Let’s talk technology, inboxes. When you are accessible 24/7 with Slack, with email, with texts, it’s so easy to feel like again, everything’s urgent. So whether you’re a boss or a founder or not, you are just more accessible now. What boundaries have you had to set with technology? I think about the phone not in your room anymore.
Michelle Razavi:
100%.
Tori Dunlap:
What actually works and what doesn’t?
Michelle Razavi:
Let’s go down the list.
Tori Dunlap:
Great.
Michelle Razavi:
So phone away. I have my phone set to do not disturb automatically starting at 10:00 PM. So whether I want to or not, I’m not getting notifications. I have to physically go and turn it back on. So I set that barrier with myself. I don’t have my phone next to my bed stand anymore, and that has been fantastic in getting me out of the late night TikTok scroll. It’s not serving any purpose. And in the morning, I’m not waking up to email and Slack notifications. I get to take a deep breath, I get to be present and grateful for my healthy body in the morning. And then when I choose, I get to go online. It’s not next to me. So I’m eliminating any sort of temptation wherever I can.
Tori Dunlap:
I do the same. It’s in my bathroom.
Michelle Razavi:
You have to. Smart. You have to. And second, on Slack, anytime I’m in meetings, I set notifications for do not disturb. And anytime I’m traveling, I put a little airplane emoji so my team knows I’m traveling and I’m slower to respond. I’m hyper communicative to my team letting them know, “Hey, I’m going to be offline during these hours.” And I hope that also encourages them too to set their own boundaries. I think they have to see the leader, your team has to see the leader set boundaries so that they feel empowered as well because I’m not just responsible for managing my burnout, but also the managing the burnout of my team. I think we forget that, that we have to set that example.
And another thing that I like to do is I am not logged into social media for a majority of my day. I have dedicated times where I log in to engage with posts that we’re posting that day, to get back to people on messages, and then I’m immediately out of there. And I’ve built that willpower to not keep logging back in. If you struggle with that, there’s so many great apps. There’s like the block thing too that I’m hearing about.
Tori Dunlap:
Clear app is the one I use. They’re not sponsored. I have to look them up and make sure that’s right. Yeah, or Clearspace. Yeah. You can go in and set accessible times and then strict times. You can either do like a schedule or you can say … I’ve been more turning it off at night where it’s like, okay, after 4:00, I cannot touch Instagram until 8:00 AM the next morning.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. I also set calendar blocks for this is my deep creative mode and I’m off the grid. I’m not checking my emails. I’m not pulling into Slack notifications. These are little tiny things that I do, and when I get to see, oh wow, I’m so productive and I get that dopamine hit of things that I got to get done, that reinforces how important it is. And also just what we’re consuming, unfollowing accounts that are triggering you, that are spiking your cortisol levels. Muting people that are triggering you, that are just not serving you, kind of the whole is this serving me?
And also just being very conscious of the news that you’re consuming too. It’s obviously good to be informed, but there’s a certain point where it’s not helping you and it’s not allowing you to be regulated. And so there’s so much more I can share, but I think those are the first areas that I would start with if you’re struggling. I think I saw someone post about how depressed she was that she spent an hour doom scrolling and it broke my heart to see, and I’m like, yeah. When you realize that social media, it’s literally designed to keep you engaged. It’s like a slot machine. It’s designed to give you quick little hits-
Tori Dunlap:
Designed that way, yep.
Michelle Razavi:
… of either dopamine or stress to pull you back in and keep you in. That’s how they make their money.
Tori Dunlap:
And it never ends.
Michelle Razavi:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
Your TV show eventually ends.
Michelle Razavi:
Right.
Tori Dunlap:
Social media never ends, especially when they went from the algorithm being chronological to now algorithm based. You could scroll TikTok for weeks without stopping. It never ends.
Michelle Razavi:
And I want to give one more tip.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Michelle Razavi:
I don’t know about you, but I feel like my phone has to always be a part of me, like some vestigial limb.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Michelle Razavi:
And so I’m trying to practice leaving my phone just physically away from me, like creating some sort of a physical barrier and not having it be right next to me, because I feel like I find myself just doing this automatic like grab my phone, flip it, grab my phone, flip it. Whether I’m standing in line at a coffee shop or whatever, or like on my way to the bathroom, like, do I need my phone to take with me to the bathroom? No.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Michelle Razavi:
And so I’m trying to physically remove that tendency, that physical response of grabbing my phone and reaching for it too.
Tori Dunlap:
I will often leave my phone plugged in in the bathroom, and then if I’m doing a podcast or whatever for like chores, I’ll just have my AirPods in.
Michelle Razavi:
Smart.
Tori Dunlap:
The amount of times people call me or something happens and I’m like, “Hi, I’m sorry, give me a second.” And I have to run back to my phone, but it works really well for I get to consume the content I want to consume, but I’m not on my phone while I’m doing it.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. You control it. The phone does not control you.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Okay. I know you’re loving this conversation with Michelle. I’m so grateful to know her and have her back on the show. But I also know that some of you, especially those of you who aspire to or already have a business that you want to build, some of this is maybe hitting a little too close to home and you’re wondering, “will I ever figure out what business I want to start, or am I even building the right thing?” So fortunately, we have built a really simple tool to help you find out.
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Let’s talk delegating because it is the one that, we’re talking about all of this being really difficult. I know that there’s people listening going, “Yeah, I can’t fucking delegate.” So let’s-
Michelle Razavi:
Let’s rebrand delegation. Delegation’s hot.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure, of course it is. You actually want to achieve your goals, you got to delegate. I don’t know if it’ll be out by the time this episode comes out, but we did a Millionaire Mindset episode about time and time being your currency, not money. And it’s like you have to delegate things. And that practically doesn’t mean that a bunch of people can hire people to make their lives easier, but there are ways that you can think about delegation. So what is the first thing that you delegated that actually freed up space for you?
Michelle Razavi:
The first thing we delegated was managing our social media inbox. And that’s not to say that I’m still not hands-on in the content strategy and the brand, but it was not the best use of my time to be responding to every single DM-
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, absolutely not.
Michelle Razavi:
… and liking every single comment, and responding to them, it was pulling me away from being in the creation mode. And that was the best hire to have someone take that cognitive load off of my plate so that I can be more in the creation and growth mode. And I think it’s also being really honest with what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? And that’s different for everyone.
So my co-founder, for instance, she’s really strong with numbers. I’m not. So in a way, bringing her on was a way for me to delegate off the finances because that was slowing me down and I have no business being in a spreadsheet candidly, and it’s not where I thrive and move the needle best. So it’s being radically honest with yourself of what are my strengths? Where can I move the needle? Where am I most energized? And anything that isn’t part of that, those are the gaps to start delegating out, because ultimately you want to enjoy building. So yeah, I would start there.
Tori Dunlap:
I think the reason delegation doesn’t happen is that although we know it’s important, we all have control issues. And also there is ego involved where we think, “Well, nobody can do this like I can do it.” And I will call people out. That is ego. That is actually very egotistical to be like, “I am the only one with all the answers and only I can do this project.” Now there are times where, of course, only I can sit on this podcast as me and host it. Those are the questions you have to ask yourself of what are truly the things that only I can do? Only I can speak on this stage, as me, only I can host this podcast, but there’s a million other things that I can delegate that don’t have to be done by me, or that I am actually not the best person to do. So what mindset shift helped you release the control without thinking the business would fall apart?
Michelle Razavi:
I think Marie Forleo said this, that no one is going to be able to do 100% your job, but if you could get them at 80% accept that.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, massive. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
And I think that mindset shift helped me relinquish that control of accepting that no one is going to be able to do 100% the exact same style, and quality, and care, and level that I can, but if I can accept 80% work and that’ll open up my time to scale and grow, that’s worth it. And that helped me accept that it’s okay for everything not to be perfect, so long as it’s 80%, it’s good enough, that’ll allow me to grow and scale.
And it’s this shifting of the scarcity mindset that I was having of like, only I can do it, it won’t be done unless I do it, and this is it. I was creating a bottleneck in my own business. And when I thought about, okay, if I can bring in someone, if it’s passable and good enough and I can always refine it later, but it’ll allow me to scale and grow and move faster, that’s worth it. So I think it’s just the acceptance piece has been a big shift.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. And again, understanding that if you want to progress toward whatever goal you have, you have to rely on other people. Definitely in building a business, but also in becoming healthy, or growing your career, or making more money, it’s like you have to rely on other people to help you.
Michelle Razavi:
And that’s our superpower as women. We’re not afraid to ask for help and ask for directions.
Tori Dunlap:
Grow community. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
We’re community builders, we’re natural connectors. And so I think it’s reminding ourselves that we can go further and faster together, which I know sounds woo-woo, but it really does help you reframe that we don’t have to be so individualistic about everything, and that you can rely on your community, you can rely on different support systems to help you fill the gaps so that you can go further and vice versa.
Tori Dunlap:
You’ve spoken about the pressure women feel to get it right the first time in business, and visibility, and leadership, this is such a common thing and it’s not just the pressure that we feel internally, like society puts this pressure on ourselves. You have to do it correctly or we will cancel you, we will defund your business, but we’ll give a million trillion dollars to bullshit male founders on their fourth try. How has that pressure shown up for you personally?
Michelle Razavi:
I was letting the pressure get to me in the early stages of the business because I felt like there was no margin of error for me as a woman, as a woman of color, as a first time founder. I already had all the odds stacked against me, and I knew there was people expecting me to fail. I knew there was people who didn’t believe in me and were doubting me every second of the way, still probably do.
Tori Dunlap:
Well, we went to lunch a month ago and I won’t call anybody out, but we had an hour long conversation you, me, and Nikki about all of the people who can see this in Costco, who can see a nationwide launch in Whole Foods, and still go, “Eh, I don’t know.”
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
And it’s not because of anything about the business, it’s because of who the founders are, the gender of the founder.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And you see this with funding, less than 2% of women get funded. Less than 0.5%, not even a full percent for women of color to get funding. So I literally had all the odds stacked against me, and I had some of my own investors not believe that I can pull off a fundraise. But how I got through that and how I try to push past that feeling is I remind myself that I have always figured it out. And I think as women we tend to feel that we have only one shot, or if it’s not perfect it can’t be done. And I try to come back to, well, I’ve made it this far, so obviously I’m doing something right, and kind of consistently reinforcing that we actually are a lot more capable than we think. And I love, you and I have taught about this very viral audio of like, boys do it. Literally less qualified-
Tori Dunlap:
How hard can it be? Boys do it.
Michelle Razavi:
Less qualified, less experienced, are doing a lot more. So I’m like, so why not us? And I love that reframe to give us permission. And I think having conversations like this, seeing more women share their stories, seeing more women in business gives us the permission of like, okay, it’s okay for it to not be perfect. If you followed our brand five years ago, we were a different brand name, different product lines. We were so messy, we were so ratchet, and we were just so cringe. And I laugh about it, but I also love it.
I look back and I’m like, how sweet that we were able to evolve and we still kept going, and we were like the cockroach that just wouldn’t die. And what a great story that hopefully other people can see that you don’t have to be perfect right off the bat. And there’s almost this relatability that I think people like to feel of like, okay, someone isn’t perfect right off the get-go. And I think I’ve definitely surprised myself in how endearing it is to be imperfect and to not have things figured out right off the bat. And I think that humility can also allow people to feel more connected to you.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. And for everybody listening, this is also where we as women cannot contribute to the pile on that inevitably happens when women do make a mistake. Now, there are some mistakes, right? Mistakes are on a spectrum here, but I think that so many women, and especially female entrepreneurs, are not allowed any grace, and are not given any space to publicly fail, yet we’re also expecting women to start companies, and be role models, and go out and do the thing and like, yes, go girl boss. So you cannot have that hope and expectation for women that women are going to take risks, and they’re going to build things, and they’re going to take swings without also understanding that women will make mistakes.
Michelle Razavi:
We’re human and it’s-
Tori Dunlap:
It’s just going to happen.
Michelle Razavi:
I so appreciate you saying this because it’s so scary. Even the concept of building in public-
Tori Dunlap:
So scary.
Michelle Razavi:
… it’s terrifying.
Tori Dunlap:
As someone with five million [inaudible 00:48:42], it’s terrifying. It’s terrifying.
Michelle Razavi:
Right. And it’s almost like you don’t want the attention, which then reinforces wanting to play small and wanting to not take up space because-
Tori Dunlap:
That’s what I mean is like the very things that we as women say we’re sick and tired of, like a society that makes us feel like we’re playing small, like no, play big. But then if you’re going to get mad at somebody for making a mistake and they’ve owned up to it and all that’s happened, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Michelle Razavi:
No, it is our responsibility if we want women to take up space to be the ones who are driving financial decisions that are changing our structures and systems so that all of us benefit, we need to go around any woman who has made a mistake, taken accountability, put our arm around her and be like, “Girl, I got you. We’re going to get through this.” And that needs to happen. It’s not, unfortunately, right now. I think we can get better, and then it allows more space for more women to take opportunities in their hands, and to put themselves out there, and to build in public, and to share their stories, and to create products that benefit other women. But yeah, it’s scary to be visible.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s eating our own, and it’s not helpful. And I unfortunately expect it from some men, it really pisses me off when it’s from other women because I’m like, again, you can’t ask me to go out and put myself out there knowing that I am human, or you are human, and it’s going to happen.
Michelle Razavi:
And if you are on the other side, and I’ve been on this side too, where I get triggered by a woman showing up and taking up space.
Tori Dunlap:
Oh, me too. Yeah.
Michelle Razavi:
I have to pause and ask myself, “Well, what is triggering? Why am I upset?”
Tori Dunlap:
Why?
Michelle Razavi:
And having that honest conversation is so helpful because then it shifts me away from like, “Okay, there’s actually nothing wrong with her.”
Tori Dunlap:
Or like, “I don’t like her.” Why don’t you like her?
Michelle Razavi:
Right. And I think having that conversation, there’s still girls that trigger me or annoy me, and then I’m like, “What is it about her that’s annoying me?” I’m like, she’s living a life that I would kind of like for myself.
Tori Dunlap:
Envy tells you a lot.
Michelle Razavi:
Yeah. And I was like, okay, or maybe not. And it’s just like, okay, I find this about her. I’m like, okay, is it impacting me? Is it taking anything away from me? No. And I think just getting really honest and unpacking and peeling back these feelings of like, okay, she’s showing me a life that I might want to have or parts of her life that I might want to have. I’m like, okay, then why don’t I just focus on creating that for myself rather than even in my mind tearing someone down? Even if I’m not publicly commenting something, I’m like, it’s not serving me. It’s taking me out of abundance, expansion, creation mode, and more into picking and judging.
Tori Dunlap:
And it’s not serving you, it’s serving the patriarchy. That’s the only thing that’s getting served at that point.
Michelle Razavi:
Division causes distraction.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, absolutely.
Michelle Razavi:
And what happens when we’re distracted, then we’re not calling things out. We’re not holding people accountable. We’re not advocating for ourselves.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re not actually moving any cause that we care about forward.
Michelle Razavi:
No. No.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. My last question for you, Michelle, for the woman listening who feels like her ambition is costing her her peace, what’s one small shift she could make this week to actually protect her energy without abandoning her goals?
Michelle Razavi:
Put your phone away.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s a good one.
Michelle Razavi:
I know that sounds very reductionist and simple, but if you think about it, our phones are distracting us, our phones are making us reliant on them. They’re pulling us away from our-
Tori Dunlap:
Humanness.
Michelle Razavi:
… human witchy wisdom within that ultimately knows that it’s so … Women are so intuitive. We’re able to read rooms, we’re able to anticipate things faster, we’re able to pick up all these tiny cues, and that’s such a superpower. And when we’re distracted, when we are pulled into toxic news cycles, when we’re pulled into technology or social media, then we lose that connection with that inner wisdom, and that ability to create, and that abundance energy. And putting your phone away even for an hour, two hours, just notice what that does to your nervous system. Notice how that allows your brain to think and create ideas, and that’s what I would recommend. That’s the fastest, easiest way to regulate.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. Michelle, thank you for coming back on the show. I will do this in the intro so everybody will know, but I think if people didn’t listen to your first episode, which they should, I am a very proud angel investor in you and Nikki and … Oh, I’m going to cry. I’m so honored and proud of the work that you both do. And I say it to everybody I talk about these brownies to, that you are the two hardest working women I know.
Michelle Razavi:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
You guys are on planes every other week going out and live demoing in Costco. Who fucking does that? Nobody does that.
Michelle Razavi:
No.
Tori Dunlap:
And I’m thrilled you’re back on the show. So plug away, my friend. Please plug.
Michelle Razavi:
Yes. So Elavi is in Costco’s in the Southeast and the Northwest, in LA, Hawaii, SoCal, and we’re in Whole Foods SoCal, as well as Nevada, Arizona, and Hawaii. We’re rapidly expanding in more locations in the spring, which I can’t share just yet. We’re also in H-E-B in Texas, and Central Market, and Thrive Market. If you want to support us, shop direct, please. Shop our website, we do a lot of discounts there too. But yeah, we have protein brownies, dessert, cashew butters.
Our whole mission is to allow you to indulge and get more protein and fiber in without any of the junk ingredients so you feel your absolute best while also indulging and satisfying your sweet tooth. So huge thank you to you, to the entire community for supporting us. It’s so fun being back on here. And yeah, I hope the audience was able to walk away with a couple nuggets to integrate into their lives.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s so helpful. Elavi.co? Yeah?
Michelle Razavi:
Elavi.co.
Tori Dunlap:
Co. E-L-A-V-I.co. Thank you for being back.
Michelle Razavi:
Thank you for having me.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminists, produced by Her First $100K. If you love the show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you’re looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to http://herfirst100k.com/ffpod.
Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Sciortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Sasha Bonar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Meghan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
