You’re ambitious. You’re going to the events, sending the DMs, buying the coffees & somehow none of it is turning into money. This episode is about why.
Today I’m sitting down for another chat with one of my favorite guests, Danielle Robay. Danielle’s a TV host, journalist, host of Question Everything, co-executive producer of Bookmarked alongside Reese Witherspoon, and also one of my IRL good friends (a friendship that started, fittingly, as a work relationship). We’re getting into how to turn relationships into your next job, business, or opportunity, and what to stop doing immediately if you want to earn more. Danielle reframes “networking” as long-game relationship-building, hands you a follow-up template you can use tomorrow, and explains why the cold “can I pick your brain?” email is going straight to the trash. If you’re in transition — graduating, switching careers, getting a business off the ground — this one’s for you.
Key takeaways:
Networking is three things, and none of them are transactional
Danielle boils it down: ask more and better questions, listen deeply, and play the long game. The long game is where most people trip up. They want the payoff now. But when you show up consistently as yourself, add value, and share without keeping score, you build trust. Trust builds reputation. And reputation is what makes opportunities show up at your door without the friction.
Stop “picking brains”
Make a real ask. “Can I pick your brain?” and “I’d love 15 minutes of your time” aren’t asks — they’re vague, they put all the work on the busy person, and they signal you haven’t done your homework. A good ask is specific, short, and shows two things: how this person has actually impacted you, and how you can add value to them. Pro tip from Danielle: put “Quick question” in your subject line. Higher open rate, every time.
The follow-up IS the relationship
Most people network hard, meet someone, and then… stop. The follow-up is the whole point. Get specific: quote something they said, reference a thing they mentioned wanting, send the article or the intro. Danielle’s early-career version of this? She sent people bamboo plants with handwritten notes. Because flowers die, bamboo lasts, and she wanted them looking at their desk thinking about her every single day. It worked.
Give first & don’t keep score
High earners don’t walk into a room acting like they need something, even when they do. Danielle shares the story of a U.S. General who watched a president (Bush Sr.) call a different world leader every night just to shoot the shit — so that when he did need a favor, they already had a shorthand. That’s relationship-building as long-term investing: you put in early, and it compounds.
Invent the husband if you have to
One of my favorite moments: Danielle, a self-described natural giver, found her generosity getting taken advantage of as her platform grew. Her fix? She started imagining she has a husband and two kids and runs every “yes” through that filter: If I had that life, could I actually say yes to this? It’s a boundary hack — and it lines up with the data: women are more effective at saying no and advocating when they frame it as being on behalf of someone else.
Want to be in the room? Build the room
The most important shift Danielle recommends for the year ahead isn’t getting invited somewhere, it’s throwing the thing yourself. Host a six-person dinner. Be the mayor, not just a villager. When you’re the inviter, your network grows around you, and the woman who makes the decisions about who’s at the table is the woman with the most valuable network in it.
Notable quotes
“Being transactional is the death of networking.”
“Curiosity is the single thing that will drive your life forward.”
“If you want a friend, you have to be a friend. If you want the village, you gotta be the mayor.”
Episode at-a-glance
00:00 Intro
00:59 Why ambitious women network constantly but don’t earn more
02:30 How Danielle’s relationship to networking changed as her platform grew
04:30 The invented husband + two kids: a boundary hack
06:00 What makes a bad ask (and how to make a good one)
08:00 The “Quick question” subject-line hack
09:00 Why the “why” matters more than the “how”
11:00 Curiosity is a skill — and you already have it
13:00 The bamboo plant story
17:00 How to stay motivated when nobody’s replying
19:00 What high earners do differently when they network
22:00 “What’s your biggest pain point?” — the email that lands interviews
26:00 Mid-episode: free goal-setting worksheet
27:00 Where women network in ways that get them liked but not paid
33:00 The networking habit to stop immediately
35:00 Role play: how to follow up in 4 real scenarios
42:00 Getting into rooms where decisions and dollars are made
44:00 The #1 shift to make this year: throw the event
Thanks to Rocket Money for sponsoring this episode!
Thanks to BetterHelp for sponsoring this episode!
Danielle’s Links:
Website
Instagram
Danielle’s podcast
Question Everything card game
Check out Danielle’s previous Financial Feminist episodes:
How to be the Most Interesting Person in the Room with Danielle Robay
Owning Your Ambition with Danielle Robay
Visit https://herfirst100k.com/ffpod to grab our free Goal Setting Worksheet for a framework that will help you set actionable goals to take your dreams from ‘hope’ to ‘action.’
RESOURCES:
Looking for accountability and deeper financial education? Join the $100K Club
Our HYSA Partner Recommendation (terms apply)
Behind the Scenes and Extended Clips on Youtube
Leave Financial Feminist a Voicemail
Financial Feminist on Instagram
Take our FREE Money Personality Quiz
Meet Danielle
Danielle Robay is a TV host, journalist, and content creator known for her open-hearted + compelling interview style. Dubbed the Queen of Questions she also added founder to her resume with her best selling card game “Question Everything.”
Named a “game changer” by Forbes, Danielle is best recognized as host and co-executive producer (alongside Reese Witherspoon) of Bookmarked from Hello Sunshine, as well as the host of the podcast QUESTION EVERYTHING, and E!’s While You Were Streaming.
Just like her mentor Larry King, Danielle has interviewed Hollywood icons, Fortune 500 CEOs, politicians, entrepreneurs, and cultural thought leaders. She’s spent over 8,000 hours in professional, elevated conversation—gathering wisdom the way some people collect concert tees: with intention, style, a little humor, and a story behind each one.
She is also a proud Gloria Steinem Endowed Fellow in Media, Culture, and Feminist Studies, a distinction that reflects her commitment to storytelling that challenges, connects, and empowers. Her mission? To help us live better by learning through each other’s stories.
Transcript:
Tori Dunlap:
I know you. You’re ambitious. You’re trying to find the right person to talk to. You’re trying to network while also hating the word network. You’re going to events, you’re sending DMs, you’re buying coffees, and maybe it’s not really working out for you. Today we’re talking about why. And before you hit send on that, can I prick your brain email please for the love of God? Listen to this episode.
Danielle Robay is someone I absolutely love and is one of my good friends. And it’s funny because our friendship started in a work relationship. She was a guest on our show. I had never met her before, and that’s kind of the whole point of today’s episode. She’s a TV host, journalist, the host of Question Everything on iHeart Podcasts, co-executive producer of Bookmarked alongside Reese Witherspoon, and a Gloria Steinem fellow. No big deal. She has spent over 8,000 hours in professional conversation and has turned curiosity and connection into an actual career.
The first time Danielle was on the show, we talked about asking better questions and becoming the most interesting person in the room. And I highly recommend listening to that episode because today we’re talking about how to turn relationships into your next career, your next business, or your next friendship opportunity, and what to stop doing immediately if you actually want to earn more money.
And also, I’m going to ask something of you today. I need you to send this episode to another woman in your life, especially someone who is in transition, who is graduating college, who is changing careers, who’s trying to get that business off the ground because this information is so good and I have seen firsthand how it has the ability to absolutely change the trajectory of someone’s life and career. Do not gate keep this episode because when one of us gets ahead, we all do. So let’s get into it.
But first, a word from our sponsors.
Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Why do so many smart, ambitious women network constantly but still not make any more money?
Danielle Robay:
This is such a good question and I actually have a very simple answer. I’m going to start by telling you what networking is not before I tell you what it is. Networking is not transactional. It should not feel forced. And networking is really three easy things. The first is asking more and better questions. The second is listening deeply, and the third is playing the long game and we can get into that more, but I think the long game is where people get tripped up. The more that you show up as your consistent, authentic self, add value, share without asking for something in return and keeping score. The more you build trust, which then builds reputation and then opportunities will quite literally show up at your doorstep without trying and friction and all the stuff that you just mentioned.
Tori Dunlap:
You have been on Financial Feminist many times now and are a good friend of mine.
Danielle Robay:
Love your pod.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you. Love yours. You were talking about how to ask better questions and build real relationships. Since then, you have scaled your platform, you’ve joined iHeart, you host the Reese’s Book Club podcast. You have this whole new level of influence.
Danielle Robay:
Thank you.
Tori Dunlap:
So how has your relationship to networking changed now that you’re not trying as much to break in or to establish a reputation? You’re now deciding what’s worth your time.
Danielle Robay:
What a great question. It’s something I’ve been considering a lot because I am a natural giver. It makes me really happy to give. It almost feels like I’m doing something for me even though I know I’m doing something for the other person.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Robay:
The larger sphere that I have, the more I realize that that giving mentality can really be taken advantage of. Because people see that I’m a Midwest girl and I’m nice and I do want to help, I think sometimes they push on me a little bit, maybe not even meaning to, but they’re more comfortable asking me than somebody else, which I want. I want people to be comfortable, but I’ve had to do something really unhinged, Tori.
You’re going to love this. I, in my mind… Because I was not able to say no. I really wanted to help and I want to help everyone. I don’t care what industry they’re in, if you are in pain or need something, I want to help you. I started having to pretend that I have a husband and two children. I don’t have any of those things, but I started making the calculus in my head, “If I had a husband and two kids, could I say yes to this? Would I say yes to this?” down to my schedule, and it has helped me so much.
Tori Dunlap:
It is really interesting. And we see it in data as well, especially when women negotiate, that if women negotiate on behalf of someone else or they act like they’re on negotiating on behalf of somebody else, they’re more effective because we’re very bad at just deciding whether an opportunity is worth it for us or advocating for our own work. And I love, and also it makes me sad, but I love that you’ve had to invent a husband and two kids to decide what’s actually worth it for you.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. In my mind, the second kid is neurodivergent, they’re plugging in my leg.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Danielle Robay:
There’s a lot going on.
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. When you think about who you’re now saying no to, what is a no and what’s a yes? If somebody listening wants to chat with somebody like you, wants to network with somebody like you, what are they doing that you’re like, “Nope, I don’t have the bandwidth for that”?
Danielle Robay:
I love the way you asked that question because it’s actually not about my bandwidth and it’s more about their ask.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me more. What’s a bad ask?
Danielle Robay:
A bad ask is an email that is too long. A bad ask is something that feels really self-serving-
Tori Dunlap:
Can you give me an example?
Danielle Robay:
… which is bad networking in general. Yeah.
I get a lot of messages saying like, “I’m a journalism student or a film student and I’d love 15 minutes of your time.” Okay, it took them about 10 seconds to write that message. It’s going to take me 30 minutes to talk to them and they haven’t made any connection point with me. So I can’t tell that they’ve taken the time to do two things. One is share how I’ve impacted their life, how they feel connected to me, and then, two, how they can add value to my life. I think that this differs with age, when you’re older, you feel like you have a lot of value to add and you can help solve problems, which is a big way to network, but when you’re younger, you don’t realize the value you have.
I’ve actually never had anybody do this, but if I had a student email me and say, “Hey, Danielle, I listened to this episode of your podcast with Tori Dunlop. I loved what you and she said about X, Y, and Z, and I’ve been thinking about like how maybe, in your social media, you could do X, Y, and Z. If you want to chat about it, I’d love to talk with you and also ask you a few questions.” In a heartbeat because I know you care.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think the other thing that makes it an immediate no that I know you also think about is let’s say that example. I’m a journalism student would love 15 minutes of your time. That is not really an ask. You’re not asking for something concrete. The biggest issue I have when I get reached out to, and it was funny, I was literally going to post about this before I walked in to do this interview with you, is the, “Can I pick your brain?”
Danielle Robay:
No, nobody’s picking anybody’s brain. We’re not picking brains.
Tori Dunlap:
There’s no ask there. There’s no specific thing. Even, okay, “15 minutes of your time,” that’s more specific. “Can I pick your brain?” But it’s not really that different. It is, “Could I ask you these three questions?”
Danielle Robay:
Yes, because it stresses you out.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. And also, those three questions, you might be able to answer in an email. You might not be able to do time, but you can answer those in an email.
Danielle Robay:
Let me just add a quick addendum. If you title your email in the subject line, “Quick question,” there’s a way higher click-through rate.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
So that’s just like a good little hack.
Tori Dunlap:
No, that’s really smart. You’ve said people get stuck on the how, how to meet people, how to get the interview, how to ask even. From your experience, what matters more than the how when it comes to actually building an authentic network?
Danielle Robay:
Oh, that’s a great question. I mean, not to sound trite, but the why, because I think networking, even that word I despise because it feels-
Tori Dunlap:
It sounds transactional.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I really think of it as relationship-building. And relationships are not a one-to-one. You’re not counting who helped who. You’re just trying to add value where you can, think about it as a friend. And so I think… Thinking about why you want to know this person is actually really helpful. A lot of people want to know people just because… You want to know Michael Jordan because he’s Michael Jordan, but what is he actually going to do to add value to your life and vice versa? So I think the why is probably more important than the how.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Well, and again, the Michael Jordan example is perfect because, yeah, it’d be cool to meet Michael Jordan, but now I’m thinking, what are the concrete things, if I wanted to meet Michael Jordan, what are the concrete things that, A, I could provide to him, or B, that I would want to get out of that relationship?
Danielle Robay:
And how intuitive are you? Because let me tell you a hack I use for interviews.
Tori Dunlap:
Great.
Danielle Robay:
Before I plan any interview, I ask myself one question, which is, what can this person teach me that nobody else can? And it helps me frame what I’m going to ask about.I actually think that could really apply to networking because what you were just saying-
Tori Dunlap:
It’s so smart.
Danielle Robay:
… you don’t want to just meet Michael Jordan. You’re thinking, “How can I start a business with Michael Jordan?”
Tori Dunlap:
Right, right, right. Or for me, I’m not interested in, I don’t know, learning how to shoot a three pointer. That would be cool, but not really. I would be interested in, how do you pivot from basketball to baseball?
Danielle Robay:
Which I’m sure he would love talking about because [inaudible 00:10:12].
Tori Dunlap:
How do you actually make that pivot when you’re so known for something? That’s valuable information.
Danielle Robay:
But I think you’re hitting on something that you have a real… You’re great at asking questions.
Tori Dunlap:
Thanks.
Danielle Robay:
I think a lot of people say, “Well, how did she come up with that question?” Like the pivot from basketball to baseball. I don’t have that natural curiosity and I am here to tell you that every single person has that natural curiosity. Children ask 300 questions a day.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. Why is the sky blue?
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Why? Why?
Danielle Robay:
No, literally, 300 questions a day. I think there’s 9.5 million Google searches a minute to this day and we still have ChatGPT. So who knows how many questions are happening. We have it inside of us. I think systems, when done wrong, education systems, corporate systems beat it out of us because it’s taught that questions and curiosity is a nuisance or it’s entitled, and it is actually none of those things. Curiosity is like the single thing that will drive your life forward.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, absolutely. I love the story you shared on the first episode about your early networking days. Can you reshare a little bit of it for listeners who maybe haven’t heard that episode?
Danielle Robay:
Oh, absolutely. And credit to my mom, because I moved to LA and I didn’t know a single person and I had $8,000 in my bank account. And that may sound like a decent amount of money, but when you live in LA-
Tori Dunlap:
Goes quick.
Danielle Robay:
… and you have a lot of parking tickets like I did, it really goes quick. You’re paying rent and no one would reply to my emails.
Tori Dunlap:
Why do you think that was?
Danielle Robay:
One, I had nothing to… I was a nuisance to them and I probably wasn’t writing the right email. I was doing the first part, right? I was connecting with them and saying, “I saw that you were a political science major and I’m also a political science major,” but I wasn’t taking the second step, which was solving a problem they had. And that is actually such a key part of the email, I think, or an interaction in any way.
And I thought, “Okay, how can I get someone to respond to me? I can show up at their office with like a box of donuts and coffee and hope I catch them,” which I had tried several times and it doesn’t work great. People get scared and you just might miss them. So I started sending people bamboo plants and cookies with little notes. It did not get me a job right away, but they would respond to my email and email me because I wrote it on the note and they would say, “Thanks, Danielle. We don’t have any openings for a TV host, but appreciate the cookies.” Well, now we had an email exchange. They had replied to me. It was something in their inbox.
Tori Dunlap:
And it’s also so hard sometimes to even get a person’s email to figure out what is their actual email address.
Danielle Robay:
Yes, right. But you can get the company address online much easier, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Danielle Robay:
Just attention at. This was pre-antrax days, I think. So I don’t know that cookies are the move, but a bamboo plant’s always good.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s great. It would work on me.
Danielle Robay:
I did bamboo because flowers die. Bamboo lasts. And so I wanted them to look at their desk and think about me every single day.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s so smart.
Danielle Robay:
And it worked. Eventually, a company called me out of the blue on a Tuesday at 2:00 PM and was like, “Danielle, our host is sick. Can you meet us at the Paley Center in Beverly Hills at 6:00?” And I said, “Abso-freaking-lutely.” And the rest is history.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. The tenacity of connection is, I think, the holdup for so many people because once… I love what you said and everybody needs to go back 10 minutes and listen again to how to craft that email. What so many people don’t understand is, “Oh, I sent that email. It’s over.” If you want something, yeah, you’re sending the bamboo plants. You’re emailing over and over and over again. You’re figuring out the four people you can talk to get you to this other opportunity. How do you stay motivated to continue networking when you’ve been laid off and you’ve been unemployed for a year or the emails are going unresponded to? How do you keep going emotionally?
Danielle Robay:
To me, the statistic is actually really motivating to begin with. In 2025, 54% of Americans said that they worked at a company because they knew somebody else at the company, and 70% of Americans say that they knew someone at the company before they started working there, not because of that person.
So it is very clear that emails and resumes just being sent cold really does not do the trick anymore. In order to put yourself ahead of the pack, you have to know somebody and you don’t have to know someone initially, but you have to get to an actual person and pass the robot. We are so lucky we have amazing tools, Instagram, LinkedIn, the whole inner web. Find somebody either in HR or in the particular group that you are interested in. Hopefully it is an influential person in that group, but if you can only find an assistant, assistants don’t get gifts a lot. Send them a gift. They will reply, and form a report and say like, “Hey, who should I be talking to?” They might slide you the email. You got to get to a person. I don’t want to ignore the fact that it takes… It is exhausting sometimes. You feel like you’re spinning your wheels.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s very vulnerable as well. It’s very vulnerable to put yourself out there over and over and over again.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I always say that questions are an invitation, and so that’s why questions feel vulnerable is because you could be turned down. Someone could say no to your invite. And I think honestly applying for things is the same.
I throw a lot of events. I’m Gloria Steinem’s fellow, and so I throw events at her apartment. They’re called Talking Circles. And when I tell you, I’ve done them so many times the New York Times has covered them, GQ has covered them, and to this day, when I send out invites, before anyone says yes or even the first few people, I get so anxious. I’m like, why would anyone want… I know they want to meet her, but no one’s going to come and it’s going to be… So to this day, I’m anxious about it. And so it’s almost like feel that and do it anyways.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I just have to say as your friend, I love that you just dropped, “I’m Gloria Steinem’s fellow,” no apology, no justification. It’s just a fact. It’s just a thing that happened.
Danielle Robay:
Well, I didn’t want to drop her name and not give context.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s so good though. It is so good. It makes me really happy.
What do high earning influential people do differently when they network?
Danielle Robay:
They don’t act like they need anything or want anything.
Tori Dunlap:
Even if they do?
Danielle Robay:
Yes. They’re not attached to the outcome in the same way. I can tell you this from personal experience that when I was younger and I had absolutely nothing, obviously I was in need. They could smell it on you. You can’t deny it when you’re 22 or when you’re 18, right? But no matter where you are at in your life, by the time you are 35, that eagerness, that need for something turns people off. So you have to find a way to psychologically turn that off before you enter the conversation and enter the room. A really good way to do that is think about what can I give them? What can I share with them?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Okay. So there’s two things that somebody’s thinking right now. Let’s talk about the first one. Somebody hears that and goes, “Oh, but that’s inauthentic because I do want something.” How do you manage that inauthenticity with also knowing, yeah, networking’s important?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. Well, okay, be in dialogue with me about this because I actually haven’t thought about this. My first instinct is, is it actually transactional? Do you actually just need something from this person?
Tori Dunlap:
Then it’s not really networking.
Danielle Robay:
It’s an ask.
Tori Dunlap:
Right. You’re not looking to build a relationship at that point. Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Exactly.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that’s the right answer.
Danielle Robay:
From the beginning, we talked about the long-term game. That is a short-term gain. And that’s okay. You’re allowed to throw those out.
Tori Dunlap:
But don’t expect anything past that ask because that’s a one and done. That’s like you’ve shot your shot. It’s very hard to form a long-term relationship after that. I would agree with that.
Danielle Robay:
There’s a story I love. I saw a former general from the US Army, Army, government, I don’t know-
Tori Dunlap:
One of them.
Danielle Robay:
… speak. He’s worked with five presidents. He’s apolitical. Somebody at the end of the talk raised their hand and said, “Can you tell me what each president taught you?” And I was like, “Damn it, I wish I… What a good question. Great question.” And so he goes down the line and he was like, “Trump, X, Y, and Z.” And he was like-
Tori Dunlap:
Nothing. Keep going.
Danielle Robay:
I mean, I’m not going to repeat it. “Obama, he was professorial and I never knew where I stood with him. I didn’t know if he liked me or not. And I know that doesn’t matter, but I never quite knew where I stood with him and he always really was taking in information and regurgitating it. He was a lecturer. He was a professor in a good way.” Bush Jr., I forgot what he said about him and it was Bush Senior that stood out to me. He said, “Bush Senior would spend the last 15 minutes of his day calling a different world leader every single night and he didn’t need anything. He would call the president of Tanzania one night and just shoot the shit. ‘Hey, how are you? How’s it going?’ Whatever. Because as soon as he did need something, they had a shorthand. It was so easy to pick up the phone and be like, ‘Hey, I know you’re busy. I know it’s the middle of the night for you, but can you do me X, Y, And Z favor?”
Tori Dunlap:
Nope, smart.
Danielle Robay:
And so it’s like us, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
We met because of work and now we are friends and now we have a shorthand. You could call me at 2:00 AM and be like, “My podcast guest dropped out. Can you hop in?”
Tori Dunlap:
And vice versa. Right, right.
Danielle Robay:
So I think that networking is playing the long game and thinking ahead. So what relationships are you forming right now that will help you in two, three, four years?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think the other thing that high earners and successful people do when they network, and let’s take if I’m presumptuous enough to say, let’s take you and I as an example, you and I’s relationship-
Danielle Robay:
I don’t know that I’m there yet, but you are.
Tori Dunlap:
Stop. You and I, Laura Steinem’s fellow. Okay, don’t give me that. You and I think have an understanding that there are times we’re in friend mode and there are times we’re in work mode., And if I ask you for a work favor or vice versa, that does not impact the friendship, just like we can have very vulnerable conversations about our relationships or about our families or whatever’s going on over here and they’re not going to mess with what’s going on over here. I think that is something people don’t understand is it’s like once you have a relationship with somebody and again, you don’t have to be the closest friends, but you understand, oh, this is a work ask and it’s not going to affect the way I feel about this person as a friend and vice versa.
Danielle Robay:
What do you mean? How would it affect a friend?
Tori Dunlap:
I think people who have not networked before or are trying to get better at it think like, again, the authenticity question, “Well, how can I build an authentic relationship with this person if I know that I need something or if I know they need something from me?” There will come a time where I need something from you or vice versa. And also, we have a good enough rapport where we want to help each other. It does not feel transactional because it is like, “No, I want Danielle to succeed.”
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. Okay. I get what you’re saying now.
Tori Dunlap:
“Danielle wants me to succeed.” And that only makes our relationship stronger but also doesn’t damage that part because it is a separation of church and state. It’s like there’s going to be times where we’re just having a friendship conversation and then there’s going to be times where it is very work, and both of those things can coexist at the same time.
Danielle Robay:
But we have built up the conversational capital-
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Danielle Robay:
… to do that.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely. And that’s, I think, what I’m saying, is most people, again, view networking as, yeah, this tit-for-tat, one for one. And so of course it’s going to feel inauthentic when you do that because it is. Then it’s just transactional. And I love Bush Senior’s example of, again, that world leader knows he’s going to need something from me at some point. I might need something from him at some point, but also, we are going to have a separate relationship that is like, “How’s the wife? How’s the kids? What’s going on?” And that can coexist at the same time.
Danielle Robay:
I would argue it makes the work relationship stronger.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely, but it doesn’t feel like so much of an ask because you’ve already built that relationship over here.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, exactly. That is the way that you teach women to invest money today so that it 10xes in 10 years. It’s the exact same thing with relationship building. Relationships take time to grow, you continue to invest in them. It’s honestly no different.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So the first thing somebody’s thinking is, “How do I do this without being inauthentic?” I think we’ve answered that. The second thing somebody’s thinking is, “I don’t have anything to offer though. I’m reaching out to somebody who’s really successful. I don’t know. I’m trying to email Mark Cuban. What am I going to offer Mark Cuban?” So what do you say to that person who’s trying to figure out how do I network in a way that is giving when I’m 19 or I am in between jobs? How do I actually provide value?
Danielle Robay:
Okay. I love this question and I’m going to give you a two part answer.
Tori Dunlap:
Great.
Danielle Robay:
The first is when I started a podcast, I had an acquaintance that I was at dinner with and she was like, “I’m dying to start a podcast. I’m going to email Joe Rogan and I want his tips.” And I looked at her and I said, “What?” And she was like, “Yeah, I mean, he’s great at it.” I go, “Yeah, you need to email somebody who is way closer to your vantage point.” I’m not against an outrageous ask. I’m not saying don’t go for the gold, but emailing Mark Cuban out of the blue when you have nothing to offer, that’s not going to change your life. Probably the thing that will happen is you might get lucky and catch him on an off moment.
Tori Dunlap:
Which by the way, I’ve heard he responds to every email, which is crazy.
Danielle Robay:
I cold emailed him and he did respond.
Tori Dunlap:
Crazy.
Danielle Robay:
But I had something to offer-
Tori Dunlap:
Wild.
Danielle Robay:
… him at the moment.
Tori Dunlap:
What did offer him at the moment?
Danielle Robay:
I invited him to a talking circle at Gloria Steinem-
Tori Dunlap:
I love that so much.
Danielle Robay:
… on masculinity.
Tori Dunlap:
That’s so great.
Danielle Robay:
But I waited to email him until I had something that I thought was at least somewhat valuable to him to offer. So the most you’ll get is in an email back being like, “Sorry, can’t help. Have a great day.” That’s not going to do anything for you. Wait for that big until you do have something to offer.
Tori Dunlap:
I just have to pause you there. That is such good advice. And I will say to the listener, I still do this. I think it’s very easy to watch me and be like, “Oh, she can’t…” No. There are certain people that I wait where I’m like, I can’t phone this ask in too early because, one, we have not built the relationship capital and it’s going to feel way too needy and gross. And also, two, I know I’m going to need this thing later, so it’s too early to ask for that right now.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
There is a great story. I forgot the guy’s name. He had just moved to New York. He didn’t know a single person, and within a year, he had interviews at every top tech company, Google, at the time, Twitter, Microsoft, which those are notoriously difficult to get. What he did was so smart and so simple. He emailed one person in the group he was looking for, said real quickly, “What’s the biggest pain point for you right now?” And then emailed them back with a solution. He got an interview at every single one of those companies.
You really do have something to offer. You just don’t know what it is. Can you imagine what if somebody, I don’t know, a 30-year-old looking for a job emailed you and was like, “Hey, Tori, I know you’re busy. Quick question, what is your biggest pain point right now? I’m asking because I think I have a solution to offer.” You might take a few minutes to offer it and then whether that solution either fit your business or not, you’re like, “This is a person who freaking cares.” And you’re probably willing to have a conversation.
Tori Dunlap:
And I’m asking the right questions.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. The second point is you often actually have something to offer you don’t realize. So by asking what is the pain point or by taking 20 minutes to read about the person and think about their life and what makes them tick… I mean, everyone has Instagrams now, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes.
Danielle Robay:
Take a look and you can probably get something that you have, whether it’s social media advice or you know somebody who does marketing for X, Y, and Z. I think just the offer actually matters. A lot of times, people won’t even take you up on it.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. I think that’s so smart. And again, it’s all about building relationships. It’s not just the one and done. It’s not just the transaction.
Danielle Robay:
Yes. And then it’s the follow-up, which we can talk about at some point.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, let’s talk about the follow-up. What does that look like?
Danielle Robay:
The follow-up’s really important because I actually think a lot of times people go out of their way to network to relationship-build. They’ll go to an event or they’ll meet somebody and then that’s where the buck stops. And the follow-up is actually the complete follow through. That is what matters. And so that is when I say you get very specific. This is the moment to quote them, quote a moment from the conversation, say, “When you said X, Y, and Z, I’m still thinking about it. That made me laugh or that lit me up or really gave me something to think about. I’m going to be thinking about that all week. I know you mentioned wanting to learn how to water ski. Take a look at this video I found or this article, this coach might be interesting for you.” The relationship, you’re there. You just did it. It’s why are you laughing? It’s the follow through.
Tori Dunlap:
I’m laughing because you’re so good at this and everything you’re saying, I’m like, “I’ve seen her do this.”
Danielle Robay:
Really?
Tori Dunlap:
Yes. You’ve done this with me, especially in the early days.
Danielle Robay:
That’s funny.
Tori Dunlap:
You do this with other people. Yeah. No, but it works.
Okay. If you can’t already tell, I’m completely obsessed with Robay and everything she does. I’m literally sending her a voice note after this. She’s one of my favorite people and is so kind and curious and she is the epitome of somebody who sets goals and actually does the work to get there. And even better, she then turns around and shares it with other women. And to be more like Danielle, you really have to get crystal clear about what you actually want and how you plan to get there because, take a shot if you’ve heard this before, goal without a plan is just a wish.
I have a free download that helps you take your dream from hope to action. This goal-setting worksheet is going to take you through our favorite goal-setting method that will help you set actionable goals for the year ahead. And it’s something you can use multiple times, and it’s the exact framework I used to achieve my goals like my first 100K, getting a book deal, even launching this podcast. Head over to herfirst100k.com/ffpod to get it for free. And when you’re done, send us a voicemail and let us know what goals you accomplished. We might even play it on the show. herfirst100K.com/ffpod. Okay, back to Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Here’s the thing. Actually, the only reason I’m here talking to you about this is because I have a friend named Tayron who’s a comedian and we met in the funniest of ways. We were on a trip in Ethiopia together. It’s not often that you meet new friends at an older age, so they see you differently. He looked at me and he said, “Just because you’re good at connecting with people doesn’t mean it’s not a skill.” And I was like, “Whoa.” I started thinking about some of the things that I do instinctually and trying to break them down backwards. So what you’re hearing from me is not a really calculated strategic scheme. It’s more like, here’s really what’s worked for me and I’m trying to break it down in a practical way.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally. No, it works and it’s so smart. Where do you see women networking in ways that make them liked but not paid?
Danielle Robay:
I mean women oftentimes offer up free labor and their time more often than men. Something I’m thinking about a lot, because one of our gifts is that we gather and it’s how we share information. It’s how we get a leg up and we gather differently than men oftentimes. And not to say each can’t do the other, but men will be on the golf course and women will be at lunch or something.
Tori Dunlap:
Men are shoulder to shoulder, women are face to face.
Danielle Robay:
Exactly. But I think that masculinity circle I threw, I invited a lot of men, and mostly women said yes. And I thought to myself, I wonder if it’s because men don’t want to take two hours out of their workday, whereas women are willing. I don’t know. But I think-
Tori Dunlap:
It’s also an uncomfortable conversation to have.
Danielle Robay:
I’m sure.
Tori Dunlap:
I think a lot of men are not comfortable talking about their masculinity, unfortunately.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah, I think offering up too much time. I used to try and add too much value. There was a founder that I interviewed and I really liked her and I was wanting to pick her brain, so to speak, so I knew I had to offer something and I basically did an audit of her business and sent through a three-page document of all the things.
Tori Dunlap:
It’s a lot.
Danielle Robay:
It was too much. You don’t need to do all that.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Like dating where it’s like, that’s too much.
Danielle Robay:
She was probably like-
Tori Dunlap:
“Okay, send me some flowers, fine. Send me a room full of [inaudible 00:32:17] after her first date?” Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. How do you shift from being perceived as helpful or interesting to being seen as valuable?
Danielle Robay:
I think that depends on having a real expertise. And so that may only come with time, and that’s okay. I think that’s part of life’s journey and your career journey, but once people see you having plugged into something and it’s working, they want a piece of it.
Tori Dunlap:
I think it’s also the transition from more, I don’t know, I was going to say willy-nilly networking or just not very intentional of just like, “Oh, that person was interested. That person was helpful,” versus like, “Oh, this person’s valuable.”
Danielle Robay:
Okay, question for you about this, because you have gone on book tour and I’ve heard authors be of two minds. The first says, “I think of this as a political campaign. It’s a numbers game. I’ll do any podcast.” And the other says, “I’m only going to do the most impactful podcast or what I perceive to be the most impactful.” And I’m asking you this question because I actually think it’s a networking question. Is it a numbers game for you or is it an impact?
Tori Dunlap:
Book tour is such a different beast and I think I actually have a different answer for that than I’d give to the general public. When the first book came out, I was much more in the do whatever podcast camp. Now I think that, one, I’m better known, but also, two, I’ve realized how valuable my time is during that period. I have to be more strategic because time is the only finite resource, right? And especially during a book launch campaign, you have a finite amount of time. I also think strategically about podcasts versus other media, podcasts or like a written interview or even a video interview that’s going to go out later. All those things can happen before the book comes out, but like a Good Morning America or whatever, those are all happening the week of your book launch, and that’s a very finite amount of time. So you want to do as much as you can before the book comes out and hope it releases during that week. It’s a very specific thing-
Danielle Robay:
Interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
… that you have to Tetris your way into. But I do think if you are… I don’t know, it’s like a combo because you shouldn’t…
This is what I see with people applying for jobs and this is not going to be advice that somebody has never heard before. If you’re just applying for whatever job and doing the quick apply on LinkedIn, it’s not going to work. If you’re just applying for a bunch of jobs, one, they can see through that. They can see that you don’t really care. And two, I think it burns you out quicker because you’re not pursuing something that actually feels worthwhile.
Danielle Robay:
And you’re not seeing any return.
Tori Dunlap:
And you’re not seeing any return.
Danielle Robay:
So you’re not inspired to continue.
Tori Dunlap:
So that intentionality does have to be there, but also, you do have to get your numbers up at the same time. Just sending one email a week or even one email a month and expecting your entire life to change, it’s not going to work that way.
Danielle Robay:
Well, I have friends who go to parties and say, “I network.” They’re going to a day party and they’re like, “I’m networking.” I don’t consider that networking. I think there’s a real fine line. I’m like, “You’re socializing,” and that’s okay if that’s what you want to do, but I think networking is a lot more intentional. I don’t think most of us are running a political campaign. We don’t need to be in every room. We don’t need to be in everybody’s inbox. I would say be really strategic and intentional with your time.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I would agree with that. You have spent thousands of hours in conversation. Some turned into jobs, some turned into long-term collaboration, some into nothing.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
What separates a conversation that leads to money or leads to progressing in your career or in your business or in your goals versus one that just feels good?
Danielle Robay:
That’s the intangible. That’s the magic.
Tori Dunlap:
Tell me more.
Danielle Robay:
I don’t go into a conversation expecting any ROI. I go in wanting presence. I go in hoping to hear a great story. I think everyone can teach me something. If it turns into something else, it was meant to. And if it doesn’t, we leave it right there and we had a great moment and I’m grateful for that. I don’t think you can solve for that.
Tori Dunlap:
I would agree with that. I love what you said before of if you… I think having systems is important, but if you’re systematizing this, it takes the humanity out of it. Then you’re just a robot.
Danielle Robay:
Well, and people can-
Tori Dunlap:
They can feel the… Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
That’s the thing, they can feel you, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Robay:
You’re better off… I think you’re hitting on something though. You can avoid the professional when you’re networking. You don’t have to ask all… I mean, corporate is different.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, but you’re not in a pencil skirt in a briefcase. Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. How old are your kids? I always ask people when it feels right, I’m like, “If you were to give a TED Talk in 10 minutes, what would you give it on?” Because you learn something about them, what their expertise is.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Robay:
It turns into a larger conversation. They remember the question. You can have fun with it. And it can also be super simple. If there’s drinks coming around on a tray, you can be like, “Oh, do you like sugary or salty? Are you a sweet or salty person?”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. Or when was the first time you had a martini?
Danielle Robay:
Hilarious. “I had one of these on my 18th birthday. What’d you do for your 18th birthday?”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
“How’d you celebrate?”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. By the way, Timothee Chalamet red carpet looks. That is my answer to you. My TED Talk I could give without any prep.
What is a common networking habit women have to stop immediately if they want to earn more money?
Danielle Robay:
Ooh, wait, say that again. I love this question.
Tori Dunlap:
What’s a common networking habit women have to stop immediately if they want to earn more money?
Danielle Robay:
Stop being transactional.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. And that goes for every human being.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
It is the death. Being transactional is the death of networking.
Tori Dunlap:
Absolutely.
Can we do some role play?
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
I don’t mean the kinky kind. Okay. Let’s talk-
Danielle Robay:
We always end up going there on your podcast.
Tori Dunlap:
Always. Always. Okay. We’re going to walk you through different networking situations.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
And we’re going to talk about how you follow up.
Danielle Robay:
Ooh, I love this.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. You met somebody at a networking event. How am I following up?
Danielle Robay:
Okay. What kind of conversation did we have?
Tori Dunlap:
Let’s say we both work in marketing and let’s say they work at a company that I’ve always been interested in working at.
Danielle Robay:
Okay, that’s helpful. I do want something, right? I want to learn more about the company. This is when you use the template, which is share, ask, offer, connect, invite.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay.
Danielle Robay:
So share something, “Yesterday, when we met, I’ve been laughing about what you said about Timothee Chalamet since I got home.” Okay, share. Then we ask. “I felt so connected to you. I was wondering if you want to do coffee sometime. I can imagine your schedule is tight, so happy to make myself available at your convenience.” And if you feel like that’s too eager, you can say like, “I’m free Mondays and Wednesdays. Feel free to pick a day.”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Then you have an offer. So you follow up with what you can do. Depending on what that is, you can say, “I work at X, Y, and Z company right now and I actually think there may be a way for you guys to plug into this activation we’re doing.” And then invite. I think those are interchangeable. You don’t have to do both. If you have something to invite them to, if it’s a bespoke experience or something exclusive, I think that’s always fun. It’s always a good way to get someone… Because this person may not want to meet you, but they may want to go to a Bon Jovi concert, and so you’re like, “I have tickets.” And then-
Tori Dunlap:
Move on a prayer, baby. Let’s do it.
Danielle Robay:
You end up winning them over. Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it’s great.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. After somebody else makes a connection. So somebody wants to meet Danielle.
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
I know Danielle. I have put the three of us on a thread together and I go, I don’t know, “Angela, take it from here,” what does Angela say to you?
Danielle Robay:
Okay. This actually depends on how you met. I think this really matters who connected you and how they connected you. First of all, if you connected me and Angela, did you ask me ahead of time and say… Did you make it like a sweet landing for Angela? If you cold email us, then I’m going to probably not be as warm to Angela, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, totally.
Danielle Robay:
So it’s a different email. And are you connecting us because Angela needs something from me or because you feel like this might be a mutually beneficial thing?
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Danielle Robay:
Either way, I think the right way to go about it is to be overly kind and get really specific. So if I’m Angela, I’ve taken 20, maybe 10 minutes to look over my Instagram, to look over my work and say, “Hi, Danielle. Moving Tori to BCC to not crowd her inbox.”
Tori Dunlap:
Moving Tori to BCC to not crowd her inbox. Yes.
Danielle Robay:
Show that you know email etiquette and you don’t want to annoy Tori. Then you say something specific about me. Address me and butter me up.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Danielle Robay:
Right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yep.
Danielle Robay:
Say you watched a specific podcast episode or you just saw something I posted and then specifically state why you want to speak. Do not leave it open-ended. This is actually the time where if you’re going to be “transactional,” so to speak, by stating it, you’re getting yourself a lot further. People want to know what conversation they’re getting into.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah.
Tori Dunlap:
My last one. After a job interview.
Danielle Robay:
Oh, how bad do you want the job?
Tori Dunlap:
Bad.
Danielle Robay:
If you want the job bad, you need to do something that is far beyond an email.
Tori Dunlap:
Okay. Tell me more.
Danielle Robay:
Send the email just so that it’s in writing. Send the email, send the thank you. Then I would go out of your way to send either the hiring manager or the person you spoke to something that you feel like plays to something they spoke about, if their kid loves baseball, if they mention that they love cookies. And if you don’t know what to send, send a bamboo plant. It is universally likable. It lasts. But send something with a handwritten note, whether that’s you or the flower company writing it, but you need to do something to stand out. And I think this could go… Honestly, you can take this as far as you want to take it. You could do an entire project, make it look like a magazine. Pretend you’re in college again and get creative.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. My thing that I think is always helpful is ask in the interview, “What are your pain points?” or, “What is the biggest struggle you’re having that someone in this role would help solve?” And then give them-
Danielle Robay:
That’s the best question to ask.
Tori Dunlap:
… this 30 day roadmap of the 30-day thing, your roadmap that you do in the first 30 days to solve that problem.
Danielle Robay:
I mean, you just want up to me, yes. Because if you can show me that you are going to free up my time, make me money and make my-
Tori Dunlap:
Provide [inaudible 00:43:23] immediately.
Danielle Robay:
… email easier, done. That’s an even better one.
Tori Dunlap:
How can women start getting invited into rooms where decisions and dollars are actually being made?
Danielle Robay:
I think part of it is having other women in those rooms helps, right?
Tori Dunlap:
That was going to be my answer.
Danielle Robay:
Because we pulled each other up.
Tori Dunlap:
Yep. You got to make friends with other people that you want to be around. And I think the biggest thing unfortunately that we are nervous about as women is being the tall poppy in our friend group.
Danielle Robay:
Interesting.
Tori Dunlap:
We’re worried about sometimes being the person that either outgrows relationships if you want to go that far or is just asking for too much. I think about this all the time. I’m like, who do I want to know where I can help them get to the next level and they can help me to get to the next level?
Danielle Robay:
Well, also, people in that position are also wanting to get to the next level, and so they’re usually wanting to build with you and then it doesn’t feel transactional because you both know what you’re wanting.
Tori Dunlap:
I think that’s kind of what I meant when I was trying to talk about you and I, is it’s we are both ambitious and we both know and acknowledge that in each other and neither of us is going to feel ashamed or judged for asking that of each other.
Danielle Robay:
I feel like we’re in a sorority, right?
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, yeah.
Danielle Robay:
Me, you, a few other podcasters. We’re all trying to help each other.
Tori Dunlap:
Totally.
Danielle Robay:
Yeah. I think find your sorority. And I would say think about who you want to be at a dinner table with and reach out to those people because who you want to eat dinner with and spend time with is a really good indication of the field you want to be in.
Tori Dunlap:
So for the woman listening who wants to earn more, not by grinding harder, but by feeling more connected, what is the most important networking shift she could make this year to build real wealth?
Danielle Robay:
This is actually… It might surprise you. I think she should throw an event, and it can be as small as she wants. It can be a six person dinner. I have learned in life that if you want a friend, you have to be a friend.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, you want the village, you got to be a villager.
Danielle Robay:
I would actually say, instead of the villager, who’s the head of the village? The mayor.
Tori Dunlap:
Sure.
Danielle Robay:
You think you want to be invited to something, be the inviter, and truly, your network will grow around you. Those people will talk about how they went to dinner and then somebody else will be like, “I want to be at that dinner next time.” Maybe it’ll be a monthly thing. Maybe you guys start doing business together and then this person knows somebody. I think that is really how it grows. You are the person in the room, make the decisions. You be the one to invite.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. And I think asking and offering as well. I am in a relationship with a lot of women where you end a conversation being like, “What can I do for you? Or what do you need from me?”
Danielle Robay:
Yes.
Tori Dunlap:
And then, hopefully they ask me the question back. The ask and offer is so powerful.
Danielle Robay:
Well, and actually you hit on something, to be the initial person to say, “How can I help you?”
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, “What do you need?”
Danielle Robay:
People almost feel like, even if they don’t want to, they have to ask you in return.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, totally. Totally. No, it’s great.
Danielle Robay:
That’s a great hack. You’re so good at this.
Tori Dunlap:
Danielle, somehow we got through this interview without me crying-laughing, which honestly feels like a momentous occasion. And I’m also kind of bummed because I was looking forward to crying all my makeup off.
Danielle Robay:
I was going to say it feels like a fail for us.
Tori Dunlap:
No, it was perfect. It’s great. Plug away, my friends. Where can people learn about the card game, more about you, everything you got going on?
Danielle Robay:
Thank you. Everything is at daniellerobay.com, but truly, what would make me the most happy is if you do one thing in your life this week to expand your reach. So send an email, text a friend. I love sending people books.
Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, that’s a great one.
Danielle Robay:
I’ll be like, “This book made me think about you.” Do one thing to expand your reach.
Tori Dunlap:
I love that. Thank you for being here.
Danielle Robay:
Thanks. You’re the best.
Tori Dunlap:
Thank you for listening to Financial Feminists, produced by Her First $100K. If you love the show and want to keep supporting feminist media, please subscribe or follow us on your preferred podcasting platform or on YouTube. Your support helps us continue to bring this content to you for free. If you’re looking for resources, tools, and education, including all of the resources mentioned in this episode, head to http://herfirst100k.com/ffpod.
Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap. Produced by Kristen Fields and Tamisha Grant. Research by Sarah Sciortino. Audio and video engineering by Alyssa Midcalf. Marketing and Operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Leffew. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K, Kailyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmetyeva, Sasha Bonar, Rae Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Daryl Ann Ingman, Shelby Duclos, Meghan Walker, and Jess Hawks. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolfe, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K community for supporting our show.
Tori Dunlap
Tori Dunlap is an internationally-recognized money and career expert. After saving $100,000 at age 25, Tori quit her corporate job in marketing and founded Her First $100K to fight financial inequality by giving women actionable resources to better their money. She has helped over five million women negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest.
Tori’s work has been featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, BBC, TIME, PEOPLE, CNN, New York Magazine, Forbes, CNBC, BuzzFeed, and more.
With a dedicated following of over 2.1 million on Instagram and 2.4 million on TikTok —and multiple instances of her story going viral—Tori’s unique take on financial advice has made her the go-to voice for ambitious millennial women. CNBC called Tori “the voice of financial confidence for women.”
An honors graduate of the University of Portland, Tori currently lives in Seattle, where she enjoys eating fried chicken, going to barre classes, and attempting to naturally work John Mulaney bits into conversation.
